Ok, I've got about 15-16 years before I retire, but it's been on my mind.

I'm looking for a great place to set up for retirement. I've got to say that I love the Northeast, but there are reasons why large portions of the populations are leaving -- high taxes, stifling laws about this, that, and the other thing -- it's enough to drive a small "L" libertarian stark raving mad. When you throw in the tough winters, there's no reason to hang around, so you take your money and live somewhere friendlier.

About the only northeastern state I'd consider for retirement is New Hampshire. But with urbanites leaving larger surrounding states and moving in there, they bring with them their desire to have lots of services provided at taxpayer expense and more laws curtailing individual activities, so even New Hampshire is changing for the worse.

We probably wouldn't be great flatlanders, having a love of hills, mountains, trees, streams, and lakes. So I guess the prairies are out, although they look beautiful and would make for great vacations.

My daughter moved to Florida, which is nice, but not our kind of place.

On her way to Florida, she spent a couple of days in Knoxville, Tennessee and thought very highly of it. She thought the people very friendly and observed that the taxes that one sees on the surface were quite low. Gasoline was cheaper by $.60 per gallon.

I know our friend, Ann, is from Tennessee. Can anyone tell me more about Tennessee? I would also consider Kentucky and West Virginia. I must say that Virginia would be at the top of the list if it wasn't so darn hot during the summer; we hate oppressive heat.

Pitches for other places will also be entertained. The deep south would be nice if it wasn't so hot in most places.

Essentially we are looking for (A) low cost of living and low taxes; (B) few laws micromanaging people and small businesses; and (C) a somewhat diverse climate with lots of hills and trees.

Those criteria do curtail the options quite a bit, but any suggestions?

Thank you!

--Deb

(B) few laws micromanaging people and small businesses
avoid certain retirement communities where all the husbands are retired middle level managers addicted to committees and meetings. Different counties have different outlooks. And different levels of welcoming 'outsiders'.
; and (C) a somewhat diverse climate with lots of hills and trees.
Now this is something we've got in great abundance and variety.

We decided we could do without local restaurants (w/in five miles) although there are times when I'd kill for the choices of NOLA. We've got Knoxville for UT libraries and theater and some restaurants and fair shopping. But Knoxville city and county government can be good entertainment, IF they aren't paying for their comedy out of your taxes.
The internet makes up for a lot of shopping/newspaper lacks.

Suggestion: there are some great and cheap state parks in Kentucky, Tn, WVA and SW VA (SW Va is also wonderfully beautiful). Try a series of vacations to see what fits. Stop by and visit with us, please. Read the local newspapers on line.
Also consider the mountains north of Atlanta and Mountains in North Alabama.

We already had family and friends here when we moved back. And after living in NOLA in the French Quarter with regulations on parking (when, how long, what days, etc.), the colors we could paint, just hassels out the yingyang...this place fits us.

Just before we moved here, a neighbor warned us that there'd been a crime spree...the high sheriff had done a stake out and made the perps put the mailboxes back up.
We had bad storms on Thursday with downbursts. Trees on the roads were cleared by whoever got there first with a chain saw.
But two guys got into an argument in front of a neighbor's house and my neighbor found paintbrushes, some metal for heavy dute weed-eater twine, and some other really wierd things in her front yard afterwards. So she piled the stuff up and two days later someone came and picked it up.
And most people here understand what a libertarian wants.

It's too bad that NOLA became another anal-retentive place. I don't know who thought that hyper-regulation was a good thing. They get too carried away; it's just crazy.

One of the last straws for me was the law, in some localities, that says you can't leave your car running when you're not in it, even if it's locked. When did this law go into effect? January, of course.

Picture, if you will, a cold January, with wind chills at -15, a layer of ice on the windshield and 6 inches of snow on top of that. But you can't let your car warm up to melt the ice without sitting there in sub-zero temps with it.

I think this law is less about potential car thefts and more about shooting fish in a barrel. Who, in their right mind, is going to sit out in that weather for 15 or 20 minutes, waiting for the windows to defrost enough to see out of them? Can you imagine taking your infant to the pediatrician or an elderly parent to a doctor's appointment and having them get into a sub-freezing car?

All law enforcement has to do is sit there and issue tickets that rake in easy money for the municipality. Arghhhh!

Where I live it is still a bit like what you describe. Tree down? Someone will come along with their chainsaw and pickup truck and take care of it, but not before asking first. Unfortunately, not enough of it is like that anymore. A downed tree now requires a tax hike, 3 committees, 10 lawyers, and an admonishment about how a fallen tree is a public health hazard, culminating in a "insert-someones-name-here law" so that no child will ever have to see the horror of a fallen tree again.

Backwoods living, with friendly neighbors, is sounding better and better all the time. Let the crazy-making people live with other crazy-making people.

I'll also add that I don't live in the Taj Mahal, yet pay close to $5,000 per year in property taxes alone. We went to full value assessment and the house is assessed at $227,000. Very middle class. The taxes just keep going up every year. Monthly heating bills were $330 a month, not including electricity. I'm seriously thinking of a combination wood/coal burning heater. Not environmentally friendly, but a heck of a lot cheaper.

I will plan a trip to Tennessee, although that probably won't happen until autumn. But that's the best time to get a good idea of everyday life. Summers are not typical. In the autumn kids are back in school, the bulk of the tourists are gone, and you get a better sense of "normal" life.

I'd love to check it out. Thank you!

I never thought I'd leave my home area either. Now I can't wait to escape. It's like a prison break. :-)

Carla

One other area to look at is Monteagle, TN. There are occaisionally houses for sale in the Assembly which would be my choice, but I wouldn't dislike living in some of the other communities up there. Definitely cooler weather. Signal Mountain is another nice place to visit, not sure what the community has.

The NC option finds Ashdown Roses and Roses Unlimited within easy driving as well.

HTH.

Property taxes can be a deal breaker. Or maker.
Some things to consider.
How many acres do you need to get greenbelt status and a major % reduction?
How much does the age of the domicile reduce taxes? Even if you remodel most of it/all of it?
Does a story and a half house count as a story house?
For out buildings: differences in floors, potential mobility....

And we asked the assessor if we paid too much, what would our rate be? And he told about someone from PA who found their dream home (log cabin with a creek running by) at the foot of Clinch Mountain and they overpaid for it (79K when the assessor thought they should have paid 35K). And the assessor said their taxes would be paid on a 35K place, cause that was fair market value.

It's how you treat people and how you expect to be treated.

A friend was coming up here and got lost. Someone seeing his out of state tags, walked over and asked if he was lost. Yes! so she told him how to get here. Since he's from NOLA, he reasoned that she was lying, probably trying to send him somewhere dangerous and he did the opposite of what she said. So I got a phone call from him, lost. And had to try to figure out where he'd gotten himself to. Very, very lost. Because he's lost his ability to trust strangers. Here we trust, but know that not every one is nice, but give them the benefit of the doubt, unless instict kicks in.

I also liked Vancouver, after one got out of town away from the tourist of which I was one; a kindly treated one at that. The Thousand Islands are nice, both sides of the border. There are many places to live that are very nice if one does not have to make a living. With more people working from home over the internet the choices vastly improve.

Any morning that I wake up in, is a good one.

After working like a banshee (not the rose) all day, I took a break in the afternoon and checked out some housing prices in Tennessee. Wow, you can get a lot more house and land for your money in TN than you can here.

The Northwest is pretty, but it's a little too left for my liking (don't yell, I used to be one of them. lol).

For my friend, Patrick. I hope you find a place that fits your needs. It will be soon, I'm sure. Hang in there.

Hi, Orchids. Isn't Alabama hot? Like, really hot in the summer? That would kill me. However, it would be worth a visit in late autumn or the winter. :-)

Both of the Carolinas sound interesting too. Oh, so many places. That's half the fun. Looks like we need to take some trips.

You guys have some great suggestions! Thank you!

I like my area [Triad] and perhaps the Triangle even more for jobs, but those mountains and the coolness is dreamy.

Ice storms a'plenty but they work it out. We have them here, too. Now, in the middle of NC the beach is closer but it's hotter... you decide.

Still less than a day's drive to gorgeous beaches from the gorgeous mountains with friendly people and nature and low prices abounding. Not a bad deal!!

And we are very cultural and multicultural here and in Asheville... I don't know how that appeals to you but the food and language and culture and arts are much more cosmopolitan than one might think... look it up - you'll be surprised!

Florida, east coast, midwest including TX, and west coast the chance of natural disasters is too high and insurance is expensive and won't cover all risks.

Blue states have extreme tax burdens.

There is no oppressive humidity during the summer so airconditioning is optional. The summer high temps are around 80F with winter highs in the mid 40's to low 50's. There is no tornado season, hurricane season or blizzard periods. The normal type of rainfall is moderate particularly for anyone living in the Northeast.

As a further inducement all major types of roses do well here. The dry summers mean no need for weekly sprays to ward off diseases.

Lance

Thank you for your response. I know that WA is very lovely, and casually looked at real estate in the interior a few years ago, along with western Idaho and Montana. I'll check it out again.

My sister lives in Oregon, for almost 30 years now, and loves it. But we have different philosophies. :-)

I love blizzards; they're actually lots of fun. Fresh, crisp, clear. There's something about them that's very energizing. And snow is such a great insulator that a foot of snow makes everything very quiet, not to mention quite scenic. It's the aftermath -- shoveling, plowing, de-icing, thawing out -- that gets real tiresome after a while.

Rosebud and Orchids, you guys have put your finger on it. There's a name for what I have: Blue State Fatigue. Lol. The ever-increasing demands, both financially and legislatively, are taking a toll. I find it amazing that anyone can accomplish anything with all these impediments. It's not surprising that people are leaving in droves.

Just thinking about relocating feels like a weight is being lifted off my shoulders. I looked at property in northern Alabama earlier. Just looking at what can be had for the same amount of money and for a lot less money in taxes had me feeling resentful towards the state of affairs here.

Like I said in an earlier post, my house is assessed for $227,000 and I pay $3300 for school taxes and another $1500 in town taxes. I'm sure they'll be higher this year. We won't even talk about sales taxes and state income taxes. It costs a small fortune to heat my home in the winter with oil, although natural gas, if it was available where I live, is not much better. And -- surprise! -- home heating fuels are also heavily taxed.

For $249,000 in northern Alabama, I can get a nicer home (with an inground pool), more land, and pay $1200 a year in property taxes, plus probably a lot less in state income taxes and sales taxes. And, there's a better chance the "government" will see fit to mostly leave me alone.

It's very similar to Tennessee in that regard. Where do I go to sign up?

So, there's a lot of homework to do.

I can't thank you all enough for the great recommendations. It's wonderful to read about different places and I love it when people talk about where they live.

Alaska is about as libertarian as you can get--and Anchorage in winter is way warmer than NY, if you can take the dark.

Good idea...Nevada is one of the fastest growing states; there must be a reason. I'll check out the Reno area. Thank you.

I've thought about Alaska, too. Gorgeous. I was listening to a woman from Barrows, Alaska (waaaay up north); they don't expect their first sunset until August 2nd, which is coming up quickly.

On the flip side, when you're that far north in the winter you only get an hour or so of daylight at times. Yep, it would all be very strange indeed. :-)

One would almost have to be one of those self-sufficient Libertarians in many parts of Alaska.

I'm ready for a slightly longer growing season, but not so much that I'd feel obligated to work constantly. Wouldn't mind doing a bit of hobby farming during retirement. Grow fruits and vegetables and sell the rest for some extra income.

Very interesting factoids on things that can cost/save a person lots of money.

MichaelAT

"Blue" states are more expensive for a reason. The greater the demand then the higher the cost.

Greenville SC has a beautiful restored downtown area with waterfalls, shopping, coffee shops, walking trails, ball field and various bistros.

We are 3 hours from the beach and 45 mins from the mountains.

We have excellent hunting, fishing, sports and fine arts. Houses are cheap and taxes are moderate....likely you would consider them low compared to the North. We have an international airport that has a carrier that will fly you to Orlando or Tampa for 50-80 dollars (each way). You can be to Atlanta for big time entertainment or NFL games in less than 3 hours. Charlotte, where you can find the motor speedway and other attractions is 100 miles away and a pleasant drive. Oh and just to entice you more....I can be to Roses Unlimited or Ashdowns in about an hour.

I love it here!! Can you tell? Southern hospitality and good sweet tea...come on down!!

Ronda

Still, whenever people are nasty AND given a podium, it's very disquieting and downright repulsive.

If you get enough good people in one place, ugly talk and behaviors start to go away. One could make the argument that, if good people stay away, they have no influence whatsoever and cannot temper the ugliness.

On the other hand, there's no sense in fighting a perpetual losing battle and withstanding flagrant incompatibility, which is why I'm hightailing it out of the Northeast and, specifically, NY. Hyper-regulation and over-taxation are not the hills I'm willing to die on. :-)

MichaelAT, good link. Learned a few new things there. It also reinforced what I already knew -- NY and most of the Northeast is not friendly to anyone, even its long time residents. Pennsylvania, otoh, is looking friendlier than one would normally think.

I don't think NYC has much to worry about. Yet. But the upstate area is bleeding out people. Last one out? Please turn off the lights.

Ronda, very tempting pictures. You should be creating brochures, because those photos are very well done. The mountains sure are pretty. Mentioning RU and Ashdown's is just unfair fighting. :-)

Funny you should mention that, as I've already been thinking about the roses I'd grow that wouldn't thrive in zone 5. He-he. You're almost as evil as Patrick with that enabling thing, lol.

Pete, sounds like you keep flirting with change too.

Carla

Gosh, I haven't been back here in a bit. Just lurking today and saw your posts.

I will be spending a week or so checking out a good portion of the South in early March. Eldest daughter lives in Florida, so my 2 other daughters & I will be going for a quick visit, and spending the rest of the time doing a very preliminary look-see in a couple of states.

We took our internal and informal vote. That's three whole votes. The results, in order of preference for wanting to see:

1. NC and TN tied.
2. SC and GA tied.
3. If we had more time, we'd love to go through Mississippi, Alabama, etc. all the way to Texas, but we are not blessed with that many days off. :-)

Of course, one week isn't enough time to do justice to any place, but it's a start, to kind of get a feel for things.

Since we'll be driving mostly down the East Coast, we'll only see the tourist-y places in most states, so we have to narrow down the scope of places where we want to spend a day or two, and the easiest places to do that AND be able to spend a couple of days with oldest daughter.

In the interests of time, I think we'll have to scope out the east coastal states.

Everyone has decided that NC is a place we really want to look at, and we will spend a couple of days there.

Folks from NC -- feel free to recommend favorite spots that would help get to look at local (not tourist) culture.

If we have time, we'll swing over to parts of TN, but may have to save that for a late summer/early fall trip.

I could get more time off, buy my daughters have been in their jobs for less than three years, so they don't get a lot of vacation time. We'll just have to plan another trip later in the year. Go ahead, twist my arm!

I'd also enjoy checking out KY and WV, but they will have to be relegated to the next trip.

I guess a Bosox fan in KY would feel a bit displaced. :-)

But the Northeast "culture" has been oppressively brutal, although I will always love the "Yankee"/New England geography and flora and fauna. The small towns, especially. Truly lovely.

Pennsylvania is also good and I love their climate, too. The eastern part is beautiful. AND that's where Florence lives.

I would strongly recommend doing comparitive money studies.
Cost of house + cost of property taxes + insurance + utilities + other.
(Other is like in Texas where there were property taxes + water district + subdivision assessment. My water district tax exceeded my property tax.)

Cost of living.
Cost of heating.
Cost of repairs.

Is theatre important? A library? Continuing education courses? Cheap air fares? Ethnic restaurants?

For the next month, make a list of things you'd like to be doing. And how much you'd like to pay for them.

Great book stores used to be important to me; the internet has filled that lack (and the bookstores have morphed into music and book and coffeehouses.)

Good luck with your mission.

Rosefolly

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A Better Life, Inc.
gary@abetterlifeThailand.com