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Seeing is believing

Posted by michaelalreadytaken No Cal (My Page) on
Tue, Aug 21, 07 at 13:34

Arctic sea ice has now surpassed all previous records for the lowest absolute minimum extent. Satellite measurements recorded the previous...

On August 16, 2007 the Arctic ice cap reached its lowest dimensions since satellite photography began in 1970.

The peak summer ice loss usually occurs in September so there's an entire month yet to go.

Ice reflects 80% of the sunlight and heat back into space; open ocean reflects only 10%--so the warming is accelerating.

Previous models called for a complete melt of the icecap in 2070. That has been advanced to 2030.

Here is a link that might be useful: National Snow and Ice


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Seeing is believing

Michael, don't be a spoil sport. Lots of billionaires are making good money on fossil fuels. You are obviously a glacier-hugging socialist. Besides, my President said there is no global warming.


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RE: Seeing is believing

...staying way the heck outta this one. call me Chicken Pagan!!


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RE: Seeing is believing

Here's a tid-bit of an interesting read, DISCLAIMER: not for the faint of heart!

Here is a link that might be useful: Global warming


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RE: Seeing is believing

  • Posted by taureau 8B South Louisiana (My Page) on
    Wed, Aug 22, 07 at 13:49





"The attempts of environmentalists to bolster the myth of human-induced global warming is downright immoral." Philip Stott, Professor of Biogeography, University of London

"Most geologists think the world is growing warmer, and that it will continue to get warmer." L.A. Times 1929

The Sun, Water vapor, Earth's orbit, Volcanos, Interstellar clouds, Cosmic rays, Tectonic plates, Land use, CO2, Sunspots,Gravitational pulls, Ocean currents and Solar flares. Imagine each one of these as a 100,000 piece puzzle and mix them all together. Now randomly take out 1/4 of all the pieces and try to put it together. This represents our world and its environment.

Global Warming Lies was created because when you do an internet search on global warming 99% of what you find is how the Earth is doomed and we are all going to drown from global warming. This isn't the case, infact most climatologists will tell you differently. Global Warming Lies is an attempt to break down the science into every day language, provide facts, use logic and common sense instead of the "Your going to die" method.




Corrected graph 1st used by scientists to declare we were all going to die by global warming.




Facts

Before you go through this site, if you have an hour to kill this is a great video and covers just about everything. Global Warming Swindle.
Every Climatologist will tell you the Earth's temperature has been much hotter and colder than it is now.

There was an Ice Age and it warmed up, there was a Mini Ice Age just 500 years ago and it has been warming up ever since. The Industrial Revolution was not around during those periods.

NASA reports because of Solar Flares the Sun is the hottest it has been in over 100 years. There are no cars on the sun.

Global warming is causing ice to melt on Mars. There are no cars on Mars.

Thousands and thousands of studies and experiments prove that more carbon dioxide produces better fruits, vegetables, trees and almost any sort of plant life.

Most of the temperature increase happened before 1940 (Before most carbon dioxide was released by cars and factories)

The hot year of 1998 was caused by El Nino.

Joining the Kyoto Protocol would cost the U.S. approximately $400 Billion every year and have virtually no effect on earths temperature.

April 28, 1975 Newsweek printed an article about scientists predicting doom and gloom because of Global Cooling.

Global Warming Lies and many millions of other people who don't believe global warming is man made have never received money from any oil company.

Climate models do not take into account water vapor that is 95% of the atmosphere.

The United Nations left out two statements that were suppose to be in the final draft of a paper on Global Warming.

1) "None of the studies cited above has shown clear evidence that we can attribute the observed climate changes to increases in greenhouse gases."
2) "No study to date has positively attributed all or part of the climate change to manmade causes"

There are six billion people on Earth, a colder climate and/or less carbon dioxide would have devastating effects worldwide.

I wish I could take credit for this but I can't, it's a webpage with news articles on everything global warming is blamed for.
Global Warming blamed for everything

If you don't believe global warming will destroy the earth you will be accused of working for an oil company.


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RE: Seeing is believing

taureau,

Did you check out my link? Tell me what you think about that research.

Betty


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RE: No cars on Mars...

"Global warming is causing ice to melt on Mars. There are no cars on Mars". Hehehe, Verry Verry interresting...

Betty


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RE: Seeing is believing

I am into soil stewardship, leaving this world better than I found it. Humans like to live, whatever that may mean to them at the time. Some are not happy with people, places, or things and do bad stuff.

I also am happy that now most of our industry has closed down and the air is clearer, the streams except for a few nasty things in it are more pure, and our food supply is plentiful although a tiny bit suspect.

It is nice that all the well paying jobs in our company are going to very well educated Indians who recieve a free education. Even my heart doctor is from India. My SIL said it wasn't worth it to spend $180,000 @ to send our Granddaughters to Northwestern. The first in 4 generations not to attend this institution. It may be more expensive by the time they are ready to attend college. Perhaps they can go to some nice school in India.

It is true that there is flooding in Iowa and people are suffering, but I live on top of a high hill so I think I will go out and feed a worm.

Foghorn Leghorn
NAGL
I am a Chicken

p.s. "Free the Chicago 7!"


Here is a link that might be useful: Hippie stuff


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RE: Seeing is believing

Not actually disagreeing just another point of view. Global warming or cooling without the guilt. Yes the melting icecap is of concern because fresh water may influence the direction of the gulf stream we are told that the last time the gulf stream changed we had an ice age and it came on very fast.
Oh bye the bye it's not my point of view. I havent read enough to have one and I refused to be manipulated by current thought or the chimps in Washington!

Here is a link that might be useful: Philip Stott


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Then there is this

Then there is this

Here is a link that might be useful: Then theres this


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RE: Seeing is believing

  • Posted by taureau 8B South Louisiana (My Page) on
    Wed, Aug 22, 07 at 22:39

Ms. Betty Grow, I did enjoy reading your link. I copied and pasted the last two paragraphs down below. We should all conserve energy and resources whenever possible. Bien dit et assez dit.

The Sun's radiance may well have an impact on climate change but it needs to be looked at in conjunction with other factors such as greenhouse gases, sulphate aerosols and volcano activity," he said. The research adds weight to the views of David Bellamy, the conservationist. "Global warming - at least the modern nightmare version - is a myth," he said. "I am sure of it and so are a growing number of scientists. But what is really worrying is that the world's politicians and policy-makers are not.

"Instead, they have an unshakeable faith in what has, unfortunately, become one of the central credos of the environmental movement: humans burn fossil fuels, which release increased levels of carbon dioxide - the principal so-called greenhouse gas - into the atmosphere, causing the atmosphere to heat up. They say this is global warming: I say this is poppycock."


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RE: Seeing is believing

I don't feel qualified to analyze the scientific data. I rely on logic.

Who should I believe? The scientific community or the people who are making giant profits on fossil fuels?


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RE: Seeing is believing

DW has given me the green light to buy some more roses for the coming year. One will be 'French Lace.' I don't care, I like it. Perhaps the others should in theory be a bit more earth kind. Seeing is believing.

If one keeps reading one can come up with interesting bits. It is only reasonable for those in power to fund and support those who support their viewpoint.

This is an issue that should bring us together.

"The next thing is to persuade people that personally they can make a difference, both in terms of their own lifestyle choices but also in terms of political mobilisation. We need to get people to come together and mobilise collectively for political, social and economic change."

Here is a link that might be useful: George Marshall


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RE: Seeing is believing

Harry, thank you for making me laugh, i.e. "glacier hugging socialist." Truth is, I wish I had that sort of conviction and belief in anything political anymore. I do not; I am becoming more and more politically agnostic by the day :).

Digressing only slightly, my current theory regarding the probability of the extinction of the human race at its own hands is the Dry Erase Board theory.

Having in my career witnessed numerous professionals including RNs, MDs, PhDs, MSWs, Petroleum Engineers, Mechanical Engineers, and at least one lawyer write on Dry Erase boards with a Sharpie or a Marks-a-Lot and then marvel when it won't wipe off--I have accordingly decided to abandon all hope and "live for today."

:)

MichaelAT


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RE: Seeing is believing

Bwahaha, MAT, a distinguished Lecturer at Oxford did that the other day. A permanent C, but he wasn't an a$$ about it.

Very funny. BTW you can color me politically agnostic too. What was the generation Hemingway wrote about called? Somehow I and so many other folks are turning to that philosophy... just too much of a lot of too muches going on, methinks.


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RE: Seeing is believing

I always thought global warming and the greenhouse effect would balance each other out...

politically agnostic pagan


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RE: Seeing is believing

Born again yahoo here booking passage to Brobdignag they have some real scientists there!


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RE: Seeing is believing

MAT,
I, too, am politically agnostic. Worked first hand in politics when I went back to college 15 years ago. There are evil and good in both parties. I am a single candidate person, regardless of party affiliation.


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RE: Seeing is believing

Oh,I suspect the olde globe will keep turning until after we are all gone and lost to memory so we won't know what happened anymore than forefathers,mothers,sisters and brothers know what we are up to.
I am always impressed by the critics though-so sharp and on top of things.


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RE: Seeing is believing

  • Posted by hoovb z9 Southern CA (My Page) on
    Fri, Aug 24, 07 at 14:51

I read one shrewd comment on the effects of Global Warming, the jist of it was something to the effect of:

Like every other upheaval in human history, the poor will suffer terribly, the middle class will adjust, and the rich will expoit the situation to make out like bandits.

That, I agree with!


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An area the size of New Mexico in four days

I see that between the 17th and the 21st an area the size of the State of New Mexico melted and that the Northwest Passage is now more open than it's ever been--actually navigable.

Hudson was a few centuries too early.

Some of the more extreme models of GW suggest that water vapor (the most prevalent and potent greenhouse gas) is already experiencing a positive feedback loop.

That's very believable since water covers over seventy percent of the Earth. Even small man-made changes and additions could've tipped the balance.

More heat--> more water vapor--> -->even more heat -->even more water vapor.

If that's true then the battle may already be lost depending on what the max values of water vapor's reflectivity, in terms of cloud cover, turn out to be.

Anyway, there are those among us who know that the Sahara was once a rainy, grass covered savanna and that banana trees once grew in Greenland and Siberia--and not so long ago either.

We should not be surprised by these changes.

MichaelAT

Here is a link that might be useful: National Snow and Ice Data Center


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RE: Seeing is believing

Some interesting tid-bits:

* The temperature effect of atmospheric carbon dioxide is logarithmic, not exponential.
* The potential planetary warming from a doubling of atmospheric carbon dioxide from pre-Industrial Revolution levels of ~280ppmv to 560ppmv (possible some time later this century - perhaps) is generally estimated at less than 1 C.
* The guesses of significantly larger warming are dependent on "feedback" (supplementary) mechanisms programmed into climate models. The existence of these "feedback" mechanisms is uncertain and the cumulative sign of which is unknown (they may add to warming from increased atmospheric carbon dioxide or, equally likely, might suppress it).
* The total warming since measurements have been attempted is thought to be about 0.6 degrees Centigrade. At least half of the estimated temperature increment occurred before 1950, prior to significant change in atmospheric carbon dioxide levels. Assuming the unlikely case that all the natural drivers of planetary temperature change ceased to operate at the time of measured atmospheric change then a 30% increment in atmospheric carbon dioxide caused about one-third of one degree temperature increment since and thus provides empirical support for less than one degree increment due to a doubling of atmospheric carbon dioxide.
* There is no linear relationship between atmospheric carbon dioxide change and global mean temperature or global mean temperature trend -- global mean temperature has both risen and fallen during the period atmospheric carbon dioxide has been rising.
* The natural world has tolerated greater than one-degree fluctuations in mean temperature during the relatively recent past and thus current changes are within the range of natural variation. (See, for example, ice core and sea surface temperature reconstructions.)
* Other anthropogenic effects are vastly more important, at least on local and regional scales.
* Fixation on atmospheric carbon dioxide is a distraction from these more important anthropogenic effects.
* Despite attempts to label atmospheric carbon dioxide a "pollutant" it is, in fact, an essential trace gas, the increasing abundance of which is a bonus for the bulk of the biosphere.
* There is no reason to believe that slightly lower temperatures are somehow preferable to slightly higher temperatures - there is no known "optimal" nor any known means of knowingly and predictably adjusting some sort of planetary thermostat.
* Fluctuations in atmospheric carbon dioxide are of little relevance in the short to medium term (although should levels fall too low it could prove problematic in the longer-term).
* Activists and zealots constantly shrilling over atmospheric carbon dioxide are misdirecting attention and effort from real and potentially addressable local, regional and planetary problems.

Betty Boop


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RE: Seeing is believing

I believe because of all the ice melting in the Artic, Russia, Canada and Denmark are rushing to claim territory there. Something to do with it having vast reserves of untapped oil and natural gas, which is expected to become more accessible as climate change melts the ice. I think it was Russia who planted their flag there just last week, and Canada said, "No, no don't even think about it"! So this could get interesting as time goes on.


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RE: Seeing is believing

I have not researched this in ages, but I wonder if anyone else has first-hand experience with how that Ozone Layer thing turned out? I am old enough to remember people laughing that off and saying we have no real effect, even though the chemistry was startling [geometric, too Betty].

Back then I could breathe in the summer no problem. Now, less than 30 years later, we have code orange to red days so often here, with ground-level ozone as the prime pollutant, and one I'm apparently allergic to. I have to take an antihistamine daily to GO OUTSIDE. I believe it is considered basic fact now that there is a hole in the Ozone Layer, like they said all those years ago.

That and the fact that I can't eat all the fish I want due to pollution freaks out my Native American Collective Subconscious bits to absolutely no end.

"They" control the very air you breathe, the food you eat... pretty deep when you really think about it.


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