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censorship - CC threads disappeared

Posted by cupshaped_roses (My Page) on
Mon, Nov 5, 07 at 8:53

I just noticed that the debate we had about climate change got deleted. This is totally unacceptable. What ever happened to freedom of speech? Is GW becoming a political correct Church Sunday School Class. A discussion about global warming is bound to become heated. If people argue their case and refrain from name calling, bickering and pettiness I do not understand why we can not debate any issue here in the conversation section. I am very disappointed in GW and the poor judgment and censorship by moderators.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: censorship - CC threads disappeared

Yup--always happens when we get on controversial topics. When you registered for this site, it stated that religious and political topics are to be avoided. I was just surprised that they let the CC threads run as long as they did.

If it's any consolation, there is a "Hot Topics" forum created by GW for posters who want to argue controversial topics. I haven't looked at it in some time, but it is probably listed in the general index of forums if people want to continue the "discussion" about CC.

Kate


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RE: censorship - CC threads disappeared

GardenWeb has a Hot Topics forum linked below.

"If you have an opinion on today's current events or other hot topics, feel free to discuss it here. These topics tend to appeal to articulate people with strong opinions and often these debates are sometimes heated. You may challenge another's point of view or opinion, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully, without insult and personal attack. You are responsible for your own behavior and if you cannot follow these rules, your posts may be removed and your membership privileges may be revoked. "
---from the intro to Hot Topics, their words

Here is a link that might be useful: Garden Web Hot Topics


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RE: censorship - CC threads disappeared

It's their game-they can set the rules.
I am not pandering just being a realist-lol.
I was surprised it last so long.
Don't know why my harmless joke was pulled also.One of those J.Swift things.
The unsettling part is not knowing if company or complaint.Now I will be casting my beady eyes around trying to pick out the latter.lol.


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CC threads disappeared

Rats, they are gone?

I was just thinking I should save the one on the "discussions" side in a document, in case that happened, but now it's too late. I didn't think there would be a problem with the part on this "conversations" side. That's why I was encouraging people to join this end of it.

Unfortunately they have to have some kind of rules here or it will all go to trolls, flame wars and spam -- trust me, that's how most unmonitored forums get.

But I don't see them being all that strict except about mentioning certain taboo vendors that have tried to advertise here.

Someone must have complained that we were breaking the "rules," or the powers that be would not have even noticed we were getting political on a gardening forum. They don't have enough employees to monitor everything on all of the GW forums.

However (unless something was said in the middle of the night that I missed) the debate on this side of the board should still be here, since this is the place for off-topic conversations.

There is a "Hot Topics" forum for the purpose of having discussions such as that one. We could go over there and talk about it some more.

What do you say?

Here is a link that might be useful: Hot Topics forum


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RE: censorship - CC thred-topics

I tried the hot topics and found it was 99 to 1 leaning and they really didn't want to be bothered by newbies.If we went in mass maybe we would be noticed.


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anyone missing in action?

I'm just wondering if anyone got a warning or "disneyed" (temporary banishment, for those of you who are new). I guess we will just have to keep an eye out for who does or does not post in the coming days.

Kate

P.S. This thread will probably disappear shortly also.


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RE: censorship - CC threads disappeared

If the Hot Topics forum states 'These topics tend to appeal to articulate people with strong opinions and often these debates are sometimes heated.' what does that say about how they view the contributors to the general forums? Stupid people with no opinions?

OK, People - let's get back to knitting, babies, recipes, my latest operation and all the usual fare of the Prozac Nation.

Sometimes the authors of these pulled threads get banned. I hope that hasn't happened to Michael, or to Jim.

Best wishes
Jon


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RE: censorship - CC threads disappeared

It was really an import debate. If anything affects our gardens it is the climate change. Millions in America (Southwest and in parts of California) and southern Europe has been affected by severe drought this year, followed by wildfires (And in the case of southern Europe ... really bad flooding). Pictures of dried out lakes, millions fleeing Hurricane Katrina and the flooding of New Orleans and more than a million people evacuated by wildfires in California. Are we just supposed to pop our prozac and zanax and pretend it did not happen? These events affected more lives than the 911 attacks.

Banning Jim, MAT or ME? for a lively debate with even added religious and political satire would be ridiculous.

Well I better pop another zanax and pretend not to give a damn. My sense of humor has taken a severe hit.

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket


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RE: censorship - CC threads disappeared

I mostly lurk on the Hot Topics forum, but I've occasionally posted and haven't been run off -- so, I would have to respectfully disagree with Pete. It's an open forum and anyone can post. So, if someone wants to start a thread there, it should be fine.


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RE: censorship - CC threads disappeared

Cupshaped I think if the discussion had remained on CS the thread would not have been pulled. Some had to start name calling, issuing political and religious insults (satire? I don't think so!)and for that reason I'm sure the thread got pulled.
You know the saying, "when you're in Rome do as the Romans do". Well maybe you don't know the saying but to give you a hint it comes from the all time best selling book in the world.
T2


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RE: censorship - CC threads disappeared

Oh my God!

How tragic!

That's what happens sometimes--LOL.

You know, sometimes when people feel inadequate for whatever reason they substitute believing in something perfect...

Of course, there is no "perfect" so they have to believe "harder" and have even more "faith" and become even more "radical"

It's the kind of thing one sees when someone keeps posting the same topic over and over and over and over...

Oh well.

~)

MichaelAT


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RE: censorship - CC threads disappeared

Anyone can post on ``hot topics'' but go there and read the thread about a voting poll.All one color-
If thats not you ,you get treated like a silly know nothing.
My satirical post was a third thread this morning.Doubt if anyone saw it but had nothing political,religious or controversial.Meant to heal wounds and give a few laughs.


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RE: censorship - CC threads disappeared

Just one parting thought before this thread gets pulled also.
MAT if I'm wrong and you're right I have nothing to loose. If I'm right and you're wrong............I have everything to gain.
The inadequate is outta here never more to return.


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RE: censorship - CC threads disappeared

You know, sometimes when people feel inadequate for whatever reason they substitute believing in something perfect.

MAT, you just defined religion, and you did it well!

Olya


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RE: censorship - CC threads disappeared

Its for the better guys. We weren't settling anything. Just getting on each other's nerves. Saying things we should be sorry for. Making @$$es of ourselves. That's why they want this in the Hot Topics Forum.

We should be talking roses here.


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RE: censorship - CC threads dd-sad

That does not say rose conversations.
It was fun-if anyone took it seriously they should seek help-methinks.
This page has been dead for a year,finally livens up and someone complains.Sad-


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RE: censorship - CC threads disappeared

Pete,
We don't take this stuff too seriously. We don't take ourselves too seriously. We post just about anything, not worrying about the consequences. But it is not fair to expect everyone to be like us (thank The Lord for that). Hard feelings can cause a forum to fall apart.

If you like this place, a little sacrifice is not too much to ask.


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RE: censorship - CC threads disappeared

Well here we are promising to be good. Unless some (word deleted) gets really (word deleted).

Cupshaped, I agree with you. Free speech is sort of essential to Democracy. Even when it turns (deletion). Am I good or what.

But I think we have reached a point where there are two sides, for and against. Well maybe some fence sitters. Sadly the fors are in the minority. True believers can be counted on one hand.

Time will tell, something that in this case may be too late to do anything. Back to my lawn moving. Which by the way has never happened in November.


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RE: censorship - CC threads disappeared

Those Hot Topics people are too scary for me. LOL Make sure you have your sword and armour.
Carry on!

Carla


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RE: censorship - CC threads disappeared

Cup, there are plenty of people who roam these forums for the sole purpose of spoiling fun and tattling. Once you've been publicly attacked by a crazy, you try to keep your mouth shut, speaking of me of course.

:-)
Carla


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RE: censorship - CC threads disappeared

Look, I mentioned several times when I stopped discussing certain issues that would have led to politics, that politics, religion and abusive language are not allowed.

So I am not that surprised just disappointed because I was waiting for the CC party's interpretation of ice cup melting on planet Mars - if that was caused by SUVs or air conditioning.

I had no idea that hot topic kinds of things exist on GW. Not that it matters because I cannot log in to anywhere except the two rose forums. Not even to the rose gallery. I do not suspect any conspiration theory behind it (I am not fond of conspiration theories on either side anyway); I suspect it is just technical screw-up or sloppiness.
I usually save threads when I feel that sooner or later they will be pulled but this time I didn't.


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RE: censorship - CC threads disappeared

Of course it is our love, passion and dare I say addiction to roses and gardening that makes us come here in the first place. Gardening is more than anything escapism for me, even though it has also become a job. There are so many wonderful people here and I really care about many of you who I have come to know through your post, sharing your joys and struggles. I try to do the same in my probably rather funny written English.
Sure if I want to discuss environmental, religious or political issues there are other places and forums for that.
I really like people who are able to think outside the box and fight for what they believe in. I do believe we can create a better world. So many people suffer from injustice, inequality and lack of human and civil rights. Many more will suffer if we see more extreme weather and climate patterns all around the globe.

But the fight should not be here and among us. Sure this thread will probably also just be pulled ... It is the way dictators work. They silence those who voice their opinions.
If I am asked about my opinion about the US President, I will answer and it will not be sugarcoated. People should not ask if they can not handle the answer. I am not phony or shallow and I do not want to offend anybody. I do have an irreverent sense of humor and it is blessing.

As for censorship and this thread being pulled too. Well it would be better for moderators to move it to "Hot topics" if they do not like it. That would have been better, because a forum is created by its contributors.


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RE: censorship - CC threads disappeared

Should I contribute to this thread being also pulled? This is the question...

Well, I risk doing it by saying that

It is the way dictators work. They silence those who voice their opinions.

is more than a slight over-statement.

I do realize that for those who never lived in a real dictatorship - like I did - these words come easy but for me this expression is loaded and I don't like it to be used lightly. Nor do I can ever accept censorship since I know too well how it worked.

I truly (hope to) believe that everybody in his/her right mind and endowed with a good amount of intelligence should be able to weight their words and should know when to use certain words and in which context.

I think the name-calling and the explicit political statements made the thread pulled since venturing into politics is and was a no-no on GW.

Again as always, I enjoyed Jon's succinct and witty summary.

I checked out the 'hot topic' forum - one can read it even if cannot post there - and to be honest it is not the kind of forum I would like to contribute. The few topics and posts I read didn't strike me that the participants are that 'articulate'.

I risk recommending again reading the Federalist X. - it is short and raises many issues that are somehow seem to be forgotten. (How it is relevant to CC? That would be fun to find out if one sees any relevance or would label me an idiot for suggesting it, LOL) I am very charitable, I do not recommend Alexis de Tocqueville's book since that is many hundred pages long. (Nor did I suggest reading the collected works of Hume and Locke r all those thinkers from Plato on who discussed mobocracy or the dangers of democracy. OK, now I am kidding, just a bit. To recommend a skeptic like Hume? Oh, what am I thinking?)
The point is that we seem to forget a lot and learn too little.

I usually do not frequent the conversation forum because I do not knit, and am not in the habit to discuss my health problems in public. I do not judge those who choose to do it though sometimes I was worried about them. They put out their most intimate problems for others, not only rose forum members, to read. Too often I felt that I had no right to read about those personal problems as reading a letter that is not addressed to me. So I rather stay away.

Nevertheless, here and now the important thing is that we do love roses, and that is the common dominator. Jon dislikes shiny foliage; cupshaped does not like scentless roses while Jim uses Quest-Ritson like others use the Bible. I dislike biohazard orange colors and Knockouts and we can go on and on. But still we love roses, we can and do help each other in growing them even without passing the final judgment on CC that we are not qualified to do anyway.


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RE: censorship - CC threads disappeared

"OK, People - let's get back to knitting, babies, recipes, my latest operation and all the usual fare of the Prozac Nation."

Yes, let "us" try to figure out who was in the new Royal sex tape or see if we can find Victoria Beckham on Skype instead...

How is that no-Prozac-thang working for y'all over there ;> ??


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whilst one can :)


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RE: censorship - CC threads disappeared

'I usually do not frequent the conversation forum because I do not knit, and am not in the habit to discuss my health problems in public. I do not judge those who choose to do it though sometimes I was worried about them. They put out their most intimate problems for others, not only rose forum members, to read. Too often I felt that I had no right to read about those personal problems as reading a letter that is not addressed to me. So I rather stay away.'

. . . is exactly what I was referring to, not some narrow, nationalistic snipe. Having taken a quiet interest in your studies abroad, I can understand that you have some anger at the moment. Please direct it at a more appropriate target.

Best wishes
Jon


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RE: censorship - CC threads disappeared

I was just teasing :) I'm sorry it didn't come across that way [my examples were from classmates over there, actually ;]

I was happy to learn that we all are more alike than I might have thought. And "whilst one can" is an absolute hoot for fast-food phrasing!


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RE: censorship - CC threads disappeared

jon in wessex, don't be such a humbug! Geez, lighten up!

Betty


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RE: censorship - CC threads disappeared

I posted a very mild, for me, message the other day and it didn't appear, so trying again as a test.


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RE: censorship - CC threads disappeared

Bettym, no, for heaven's sake, he should not 'lighten up'. I believe he is cool and relaxed. Jon as usual was perfect: detached, concise, sharp, deeply sarcastic and ironic and still not wounding in any sense. That makes the Britons so unique; that's why I like them so much.
I wish I could learn to 'compose' like that. But I guess one is born with it like with eating peas on the back of the fork without hitting someone across the table with those little green bullets. LOL.


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RE: censorship - CC threads disappeared

Bickering will not solve anything.

I never thought that CC was so controversial. Maybe it shows that as Americans we have come to not trust anybody so everyone goes by their own opinion.

Well in this case it won't work. We have to act now as later is too late. You've heard of the tipping point? It is the point when the weight on one end suddenly becomes heavier than the other and swoosh down the other end goes. All of a sudden. Not only that but to get the board or whatever to go back requires a much greater effort than the tiny change in weight that shifted it in the first place. Such it is with CC. To fix the imbalance in atmospheric CO2 will require the same much greater effort to reverse the affects of excess and furthermore it will take time. Meanwhile the adverse affects are accelerating. Adding to the time and, I hate to say it as I will be accused of being an alarmist, to the disasters.

The other end of this dilemma is that we as individuals can only do so much to help. Minor changes. It is only the government that can edict the major changes. Such as putting mileage standards on new cars. Such as resurrecting our trasportation system. Such as putting our money instead of into weapons, for example, into things that will help with the environment. Above all we need a government that will lead instead of impede.

I'm not trying to beat anybody on the hear, well maybe I am, but for once put aside your personal bias and trust somebody. I am not an expert in this field but if the accredited scientists in this field say that we are headed for disaster, I think we should believe them. If nothing more do as oldroser said, for the time being act as if was true and wait and see. Be pragmatic, at least.


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RE: censorship - CC threads disappeared

One of my dearest friends is an older Briton, he too is cool, concise etc...and also a devoted gardener BTW, maybe that is one of the things that has drawn us together throughout the years, but he being of a certain nationality has nothing to do with it! Just because he's a Briton doesn't mean that he can't step in it like the rest of us once in a while, we all need to lighten up be ye Briton or be ye not. LOL

There is NO superior race or culture.

Betty


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RE: censorship - CC threads disappeared

OK, I quit this thread. Self-inflicted mobilization, mass hysteria are not my cup of teas. It wasn't when even ehen I was 10 years old and of the mandatory "pioneers". There are no arguments here. Jim, you keep going in circle, and I am getting bored.

Have a very nice day.


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RE: censorship - CC threads disappeared

Me too. I'm out. Better things to worry about...

Betty:)


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RE: censorship - CC threads disappeared

Love you all. Love all your differences. Don't want to see anyone sent away. It's hard for me not to talk about things sometimes when I think they are so important. Don't wish to offend anyone or break the rules of the Garden Web site. I love reading all your posts. I remember one time I offended a beloved old timer here when I was a newbie. Now I appreciate his wisdom and wit even if I don't always agree with his world view. I am grateful for everyone's contribution. I like the lively debate threads. Keeps things interesting. But I don't want to see anyone driven out or treated meanly by others. I suppose it is the the GW's job to decide what can stay. I remember all our goings on about trees even though it has nothing to do with roses.

Be well friends and keep posting, it would be lonely without you.

Kitty


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RE: censorship - CC threads disappeared

  • Posted by kenzen 9b/Florida (My Page) on
    Sat, Nov 17, 07 at 14:20

The censorship of a discussion of meaningful topics is the American way--stay focused on "material things" hobbies, looks, money, and the trivial matters of life--who cares if we distroy the planet in 50 years.


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RE: censorship - CC threads disappeared

In defense of GW, I don't think it is the topic per se, but the name-calling and the personal remarks that cause GW to pull some threads. Can't say I appreciate some of the insulting personal comments either. Other than that, I enjoy the lively debates.

Kate


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