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nymiekat_gw

underplanting roses

nymiekat
16 years ago

I'm looking for something to underplant my roses with. I'm afraid I'll pick something that will smother them. I'm in zone 5 central PA. I was looking at maybe a white vinca. Any suggestions?

Comments (28)

  • caroleintegacay
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Are you talking about a creeping vinca? If so...I'd avoid it. Years ago a friend of the family planted some here in the yard as part of running joke. Needless to say the stuff is now EVERYWHERE!!! I rip it out by the handful all the time and it still persists. I believe it would overwhelm the bermuda grass if I let it.

    I'm not sure if your being in Pennsylvania would make any difference but here in SC the stuff is awful!!!

    Carole

  • rjlinva
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Carole,

    Do you believe that the common groundcover vinca will overpower/smother/harm established OGRs as well. I had asked a professional rose grower about it 3 years ago, and he didn't see a problem with using it. I'm eager to hear other points of view.

    Robert

  • hartwood
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Even if vinca won't smother the roses and cause them harm, it will grow to be a maintenance issue in a pretty short time -- happily rooting and sending out runners, creating a tangled mat on the ground. If you decide to plant it and then change your mind later once it's established, getting rid of it is going to be a LOT of work.

    Here it is covering the ground of a small family cemetery that I was photographing last week. Keep in mind, this example was growing underneath a grove of trees, so it probably was getting very little sun during the growing season. Imagine how much happier it would have been if it had been growing in the sun in the amended soil of a rose bed. :)

    {{gwi:211286}}

    Connie

  • aisha_6pa
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I dont know anything about vinca but I like to underplant my roses with other low growing perennials or herbs. I like sage of all kinds. Especially ones with the variegated leaves. I also underplant with low growing lavender, such as Hidcote and purple salvia. Theres always annuals. I have an apricot bed I underplant with purple petunias and I like the ocmbination. I plant pansies for spring and fall on the same bed.

  • mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Vinca minor does not like sun. It grows better in shade. Keeping the white variety going in Pennsylvania might be difficult since it's much less aggressive than the blue. It's also reasonably easily controlled with your best friend, the lawnmower. (This BTW is true of any groundcover that wants to be taller than mowing height) It will send out a runner or two trying to grow up the rose bush, but those are easily clipped out.

  • barbarag_happy
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I like a bunch of different things--the low salvias, also creeping thyme and rosemary, the various alliums, miniature daylilies, and dianthus. This 1st year in the new garden rather than commit to any perennials I alternated annual verbenas and Wave petunias-- really looked nice and didn't interfere with the roses (well, when the flowering plants got too close I pruned them!).

  • Terry Crawford
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have blue vinca here in Zone 5 in central Illinois and it's not as aggressive. I planted it several years ago and it's happily stayed within its bounds in a small garden. When it gets too leggy, I just trim it up. I could see that it would be a wild child in a warmer climate, though.

    I also use perennial geraniums also known as cranesbills as companion plantings. They mound up nicely and don't take over. Check out Bluestone Perennials for different varieties. Their prices are also very reasonable and they will send you a free catalog.
    -terry

  • stephanotis_1
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Perhaps nymiekat was referring to the other vinca, Madagascar Periwinkle, which is an annual? Many of my roses became underplanted with this, and I love it. It does reseed rampantly, but you can always pluck out the ones you don't want and give them away or plant them elsewhere. The only problem I have run into is that when replanted they are not as hardy and seem a little needy after that. It comes in several different colors, and seems to thrive on the same water requirements as the roses. Bonus, and bonus!

    Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:211275}}

  • caroleintegacay
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    :::Vinca minor does not like sun. It grows better in shade.::

    It grows happily in the sunny spots in my yard too. And I mean the spots that get that blazing late afternoon sun. I hate the stuff. If I ignore it my gardens would look like that that cemetery in the picture posted earlier in this thread. I cringe when I see it for sale in garden centers.

    Carole

  • seil zone 6b MI
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Have you thought about alyssum? I know that Digger uses that and the pictures I've seen are beautiful. I'm thinking of using it now too.

  • nymiekat
    Original Author
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank You for your input. especially the cemetary picture! UGHHH!! I like the geranium idea! I'll also check on the alyssum.

  • diggerdave
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Now I know why this thread came up on a digger search :) Hey Seil! We do like sweet alyssum a little...
    {{gwi:211288}}
    It reseeds itself and blooms from early June until the snow flattens it in fall. It still looked pretty good in mid October after most of the roses had given up for winter.
    {{gwi:211290}}
    The fragrance can be overpowering when there is that much :)
    The mat is like a big quilt out there under the snow. It is -15F right now so I'm happy it is there.

  • rjlinva
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm certainly in the minority today...I hope that my rose beds WILL look like that cemetery pic...thanks Connie. I've got loads of the vinca, and I'm actually trying to get my entire front yard in it. And, yes, when I did see a more violet colored variety of it at Monticello for sale, I bought it.

    Robert

  • ronda_in_carolina
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I use catmint 'Walkers Low' . I love the silvery foliage and the blue spikes of flowers all season. I never have to chop mine lower and it doesnt require any effort from me to be beautiful. It typically is good in zones 3 and up.

    Another great choice is the California Poppy. It typically comes in shades of orange but you can easiy purchase pink and/or apricot shades online. This pic is from my old camera so its a bit fuzzy but it gives an idea how this plant looks. The green part of the plant is much like a fern or carrot top. It returns from seed each year and is easily pulled if it gets too full. I love this plant!!

    {{gwi:211291}}

  • diggerdave
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Don't know why the photos are coming up red x's. Linking may be blocked at our album site host. Here is a link to the page with yard photos: Yard pics
    Sorry about that.

  • katefisher
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Dave:

    Can I ask a question about one of the roses in you and Deb's album? I took a peek this morning and was curious about the little pink rose in the forefront of the picture below.

    Thank you.

    Kate

    I hope this works:)

  • ceterum
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The "white vinca" as noted above (periwinkle) is annual and it does do well in full sun. It can grow taller as a groundcover should but it is easy to cut it back.

    The perennial blue vinca grows everywhere and does not need rich soil; as matter of fact it does well in sandy poor soil. I don't like it too close to the roses because it grows into the rose roots and that is a no-no in my yard but it is excellent to cover uncultivated areas - better a vinca than any weed. I just started to replant the variegated blue vincas in areas where I have nothing but weeds, I think it will work as a weed suppressor, at least I hope it will.

    Every year I try new and new groundcovers or sort of groundcovers for underplanting roses. Alyssam here melts in the heat or rather in the humidity. My number one favorites are Lobelias but they disappeared usually by July. I assumed they couldn't handle the heat. Last summer I learbt that they tolerate heat but not wet feet, In the extreme drought of last summer several lobelias survived till end of August, maybe even in the first part of September - till we start getting quite a bit of rain.

    I love Evolvus with roses - this sky blue low growing spreading tender perennial with its silvery leaves is great companion plant with any rose in any color. One can lift it up before the first hard freeze and overwinter inside or can take cuttings - it is easy to root. I always do that because I never know what will be available locally next year.

    Scaevola (Fan flower) is also a great spreading annual groundcover - it needs moist soil but otherwise hassle free.

    Achillea, the pearl is a very nice perennial groundcover and and as cut flower great addition to rose bouquets; it has very nice dark green foliage and as the name indicates, white -like flowers. Spreads a bit but not so agressively as the regular tall achillea.

    Cerastium snow-in-summer is hardy from zone 3 up; likes drier soil than roses but may do well as an edging plant.

    Hardy geraniums are an excellent choice they come in various sized, colors and bloom time.

  • diggerdave
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi Kate, that is the top of our Ultimate Pleasure bush. UP is a very nice Dee Bennett mini we got in 2001. The thing gets almost 4 feet tall even though it is a mini. Couldn't follow the link. The host is having to make some changes at the site. I'll see if this link to the photo works, just experimenting: pic link
    I uploaded that one because Duke was in it. I know... I should have mowed the grass and taken the hose up, LOL. You'll find that stuff in many of our pics. I just take pics as we work in the yard. At least there isn't a 5 gallon bucket sitting somewhere in it :)

  • katefisher
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks Dave!

    What an adorable little rose. Course it goes without saying what fun your whole garden is. So Dee Bennett? I am trying several mini's this year so I will keep my eyes open for her. You two grow it well.

    In regards to your yard having 'stuff' in it that does not detract from the beauty I see at all. In fact it shows that your family (including Duke naturally) uses and enjoys the yard/garden which is really the point of all that eye candy isn't it? To be enjoyed?

    Thanks for your time.

    Kate

  • katefisher
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I meant Ultimate Pleasure by Dee Bennett. Okay no more thread hijacking:(

    Kate

  • kathwhit
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You have gotten a lot of good suggestions for underplanting. I use catmint (species), nasturtium (cherry), allyssum, lobelia, petunia, salvia (may night and a pink-I forgot the name), CA poppies (ice follies), snapdragon, perennial geranium, lillles (asiatic and oriental), daylillies, asters, vernicas (both low growing varieties) and shade growncovers like ajuga (can be invasive). I try to match the groundcover to contrast with the roses.
    Kathy

  • canadian_rose
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I really like alpine poppies and scabosia. Scabosias come in purple, blue, pink and white. Both types just keep blooming and blooming. Both grow to about 1 foot high.

    Carol

  • robiniaquest
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm with Robert. That cemetery pic is beautiful. Last year, after much deliberation and discussion, I went ahead and underplanted two mature roses (Aloha and Cardinal de Richelieu, in the same bed) with vinca minor. My reasoning was like this. I had tried ferns (both upright and trailing), violas, and hardy geraniums in that spot, but none could establish with those nutrient and water sucking monster roses (along with two rampantly growing, mature clematis - Princess Diana and H.F. Young) present. The house I live in was my childhood home, and vinca minor used to flourish in that semi-shaded spot for many years, until heavy oak leaf cover steadily and efficiently eliminated it. So I know it's not impossible to eradicate vinca - just completely cover it with a heavy mulch for a few seasons. The bed in question is in the partially shaded root zone of a massive black oak.

    Additionally, I have several roses planted in an old mint bed along with - yes, I know I'm crazy - morning glories, honeysuckle, and a mulberry tree. It has been interesting to watch the progress of these roses. A one-year, own-root ZD fought it's way through four seasons to achieve mature size - now we'll see in it's fifth season if it's sparse bloom will improve. Another ZD, gallon-size from J & P, grew rather quickly and bloomed respectably in its first season. Out of four minis nestled down into that jungle of mint, only one did poorly (declined), two have held their own, putting on slow growth while blooming well, and one (red Parade mini) has grown and bloomed like a champ. Surprisingly, the honeysuckle has actually faced the greatest challenges in this bed (other than a lot of Gk oregano and specialty mints that just couldn't compete).

    I find myself inexorably drawn to the so-called invasives, for one simple reason - they can be counted on to flourish and provide quick, guaranteed fill. The only two I just cannot abide are trumpet vine and Sweet Autumn clematis because they always get way ahead of me and my plants, and resist all my attempts at eradication. But most others can be used judiciously with good results. The key, IMO, is to carefully evaluate the unique circumstances you're creating. Different plants are more rapacious at different life stages and different parts of the season. You can also strategically "handicap" supervigorous species in various ways - repeated hacking and pairing them with other monsters are my favorite ways. I have my kids wreak mad havoc on the mint patch at least once a year. And they are always free to pick as much as they want. I should add that this is a totally unamended bed, except for the holes where the roses are put in. I have come to view roses as extremely tough, persistent, and sometimes rapacious monsters themselves. The time not to challenge them is when they are band-sized or lacking in vigor.

    So far my vinca is coming along slowly, but looks very pretty.
    Good luck, and don't be afraid to experiment if you are so inclined.

  • jardineratx
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm really enjoying the input from all of you on this thread because underplanting is my greatest weakness. Like the poster, I'm afraid the underplantings will smother the roses. I have not been able to achieve a "full" look in the garden. My companion plants, primarily daylilies and salvias, are not providing a wow factor. In viewing Digger's garden I find the repetition of the alyssum makes quite a statement. It's too hot here for alyssym to go for very long, but I am thinking of doing mass planting of the scaevola. Another plant I intend to disperse around the rose garden is euphorbia Diamond Frost.

  • hoovb zone 9 sunset 23
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Last year's garden tour had a house where the roses were underplanted with ivy "geraniums" (really pelargoniums). The yard looked like an explosion in a confetti factory, but with perhaps just one pale color of ivy pelargonium and one color of rose, instead of 6 different of each, all bright and all different, like that garden had, I thought it might look pretty good.

  • rosyone
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I like Angelonia. These compact, bushy, and very heat tolerant (but not frost tolerant) little plants top out at a little over a foot and flower generously throughout the growing season with very little maintenance. And the available range of colors - mostly cool purples and lavenders, plus white - blends well with the roses without clashing or overwhelming. I don't like the look of brightly colored companion plants among my OGRs.

    Angelonia, Serena Mix
    {{gwi:211293}}

  • HerbLady49
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I love underplanting roses, but I always plant with a perennial that dies down in the winter, because it makes it much easier for cleanup in the spring. I also love to underplant with annuals like alyssum,portulaca, nasturtium, or anything that makes a nice tight planting to choke out weeds.

  • karenforroses
    16 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I love some of the small-rooted annuals that reseed themselves and don't get very competitive with the roses for food and moisture. Here you can see some of my favorites - the bright colored portulaca (moss roses), little violas and alyssum. They bloom non-stop all summer - great when the roses are resting. I especially like the way a single color of portulaca will tie the rose garden together nicely. And they stay short enough so they don't interfere with air movement around the roses, so they don't encourage blackspot.

    {{gwi:211295}}