In total agreement on Folklore and Pinocchio. VERY hardy roses.

I'm not surprised to see a number of the Kordes Fairy Tale roses on the list. I'm growing a number of them in my zone 5 Northern Michigan garden and they continue to really impress me. Hardy and VERY disease resistant - I haven't used any fungicide spray on them for two years and they are clean as a whistle. Very impressive bloomers with good re-bloom as well. I get mine from Palatine Roses - the health, size and root system of Palatine Roses are better than any bareroots I've ever ordered from anyone. If you like lavender roses but find them to be too blackspot prone or too tender, you might want to try the Kordes Poseidon - beautiful, fragrant, hardy and disease resistant.

I heard Easy Does it was not cane hardy in zone 5?

I know EDI did not winter well for me. It took a hard hit the first winter from which it never recovered and died off it's second winter.

Back when we had zone 6 and a couple of zone 5 winters here, I noticed that 'Garden Party' was much hardier than other white HT. Don't know if it would work for you.

Do try 'Mother of Pearl', reported hardy in zone 5 and a beautiful, blackspot-resistant rose that is great for cutting.

This post was edited by michaelg on Sun, Aug 18, 13 at 11:22

Thanks for starting this great thread. We appreciate all the work. May I ask of those you listed which you would consider the most fragrant? I am big fan of fragrant roses.

TIA

SCG

Thanks!

Here is a link that might be useful: http://bajatodo.net

Have to go along with Seil on Easy Does It. We had a winter storm that dipped temperatures down to -7 for a few days. That's very cold for our area (zone 7A). Easy Does It was killed back almost to the crown and never recovered. She hadn't been the most vigorous rose for me anyway, seldom (as in I don't remember any) producing any new basils from the crown......How about Tineke for a cut flower HT? It survived that winter and many more with very little damage..........Maryl

Cool - it's fun to see this one resurface, and I'm glad other cold zoners find this helpful. I totally agree with Karen about Poseidon for a bullet-proof lavender. Yes, those seem to be contradictory terms, but even in its second year my Poseidon from Palatine has totally outpaced every other lavender in my yard, except perhaps Lagerfeld (and the bloom is nicer on Poseidon).

Sorry to hear Easy Does it hasn't done well for you in zones 6 (Seil) and 7 (Maryl). Just goes to show that it isn't necessarily the zone designation per se that influences the winter kill but other indefinable factors. We tend to have dry summers and winters relatively speaking, though Maryl in Oklahoma would have similar weather patterns. Don't know why mine has been that hardy for me. As I've said, I do winter protect with leaves in bags near the edges of the beds, but EDI is pretty far to the middle of the bed and was fine last winter well above any protection.

Michael, I'd love to get Garden Party to survive, but so far it has failed to overwinter twice and that was in my zone 6 pocket in the yard. Bolero and Polarstern and Paloma Blanca and Pope John Paul II have all been better whites for me, along with Iceberg and things like Cream Flower Circus. I have a two-year-old Tineke that looks to be settling in fine, so I may be adding that to my list of hardy roses, along with Maryl.

Hmm, SouthCountryGuy, I'll do what I can on the fragrance leaders among this list, but I have a poor nose for fragrance with my allergies so if others would chime in that would be great. By far, my all-time fragrance champ among my 700+ roses is Barcelona/Frances Dubreuil, and he's cane hardy and dark burgundy to boot. Toe curling wonderful fragrance - don't miss this one. I'm pretty sure Aloha and Savoy Hotel have some scent in my yard among the HTs, and maybe Lundy's Lane Yellow. Among the floris, I think Gruss an Aachen has some scent, and Heaven on Earth and Champagne Moment might be unusual among Kordes in that they have scents as well. In general, Kordes has bred for vigor, long bloom, and hardiness at the expense of fragrance. Those full blooming roses like Floral Fairy Tale or Golden Fairy Tale LOOK like they should be scented but I've never noticed much. Again, don't take my word on this - my kids will go on about how nice a particular rose smells and it does nothing for me.

Cynthia

See, there you go, Cynthia. Garden Party winters like a champ for me! i see you noted that you are relatively dry most of the time. That's the exact opposite of me. It's always damp or humid here in the Great Lakes. If we have a 50% humidity that's positively arid for us, lol! We usually run in the 80% range most of the time. I'll bet those condition differences have a lot to do with which ones do well for each of us.

I'm much warmer but I have to say that Poseidon is awesome! And the Kordes Fairytales I have from Palatine are absolutely the most vigorous and disease resistant roses I have. The blooms last a long time on the bush and the vase--I agree, not much fragrance, although Caramela has a light fragrance, but gorgeous and so healthy.
Susan

I'll add Moondance & Scentimental

Also, here are some that are not in my garden but I've personally see these as mature robust plants growing in nearby gardens, :
Chrysler Imperial
Day Breaker
Diamond Jubilee
Broadway
Liebeszauber
Apollo
Heart O' Gold
Rouge Royal
Sugar Moon
Margaret Merrill
Julia Child
Betty Boop
Europeana
Drop Dead Red
Easy Going
White Licorice
Lilli Marleen
About Face
Macy's Pride

Yep, Seil - I'm sure the humidity of the various zones has an influence on what survives well in the same numeric zone, both for disease pressure and on conditions where roses thrive. I've never had a rose commit suicide as quickly and as often as French Lace (4 times and counting it hasn't made it through our summers), and it probably loves your climate. I had to chuckle at your comment that 50% is low humidity. For the next week, we're due to have relatively normal August temperatures for the first time this year - high 90's and "high humidity". I checked our gauge for what that means in Nebraska - yep, 47%.

Ratdogheads, those look like some nicely reliable roses that are good bets in zone 5 around here too. I've had the following on your list survive in my yard several winters, but I didn't put them on my fully cane hardy list since I usually have to prune them back to a foot or less from winter kill in my yard: Chrysler Imperial, Drop Dead Red, White LIcorice, About Face, Daybreaker, Liebezauber, Heart O'Gold, Julia Child, and Easy Going. Sugar Moon is new for me but I have high hopes for it as well as Margaret Merrill, and Rouge Royal didn't establish well enough in the summer to see how well it survived winter. I have a 4-year-old Lili Marlene that has been so shaded out by other plants that it's barely more than a foot high, but it's definitely a survivor to hang in there in those circumstances. Moondance is another root hardy one for me, but Scentimental has failed to overwinter (but only once, so the jury's still out).

Thanks for sharing your experiences! Susan, you can tell I'm a Kordes fan too!

Cynthia

Hello everyone up there in the Great White North! ; )
I got out a book last night "Right Rose, Right Place" by Peter Schneider that I had ordered some time ago as a primer. Looking at it last night I realized the book is really for NOrthern gardeners. 359 choices for Zone 5. He covers em all. I can't remember how many he grows but it's more than 359. He's got a great sense of humor too. OGRS, ramblers, polys, FLs, HTs--he covers about every class AND tells it like it is!
it's a fantastic resource.
Susan

bump

I had a little chuckle about the humidity in various areas. Ours is about 15-25 per cent most days. I've never seen it above that, but I suppose on the very rare days it rains it gets more humid. Sometimes it dips to 11 per cent and similar percentages. What this means is on our typical very hot summer days, blooms shrivel and fry almost instantly. Diane

Yes, Susan, I like the Right Rose/Right Place book, and I enjoy that it's written by someone in Ohio so it'll apply nicely to our zone. So many rose books are written by people in California, or England, or other warm places that I enjoy ones that take the cooler climates as a starting place. Still, many of the roses he recommends are good almost anywhere -- Marie Pavie, Betty Prior, Bonica.

Wow, DIane - 15-25 humidity in normal conditions. I take it you're in desert-like areas of Idaho? We're dry but not that dry, and even in our relatively hot current periods I was still getting dive bombed by mosquitoes in the mid-afternoon today. I expect you appreciate the roses with stiff bullet-proof foliage that can stand the heat as well as dry, like Valencia or Veteran's Honor?

Cynthia

Yes, Cynthia, this is a desert (4.46 inches of precip in nine months) with total dependence on irrigation to grow anything beyond sagebrush. It's also one of the top ag areas in the country not too far away. Years ago, our irrigation system was developed for agriculture. It's a system dependent on snowmelts and rivers, dams and reservoirs, canals and irrigation ditches. Lucky farmers, like my stepdad who began farming many years ago, had first water rights out of the Snake River. They pumped the water with electric pumps into concrete ditches (if they were successful farmers and could afford it). However, I digress. We use house water around here as does everyone else for irrigation and it's expensive. In older neighborhoods, some people still use flood irrigation, not house water, to water yards. People in the country also often have their own wells for irrigation. My very lucky gardening friend has this kind of set up for irrigation. We have a sprinkler system for the yard, drip system for flower beds, and a second system of minisprinklers to reach perennials and annuals, plus extra for the roses, since drip emitters don't often provide enough water in our heat. I have all kinds of roses (not the two you mentioned), and I'd be better sticking with tougher roses, instead of buying all the ones I fall in love with. Diane

I love this list! Thank you!

I've never grown a rose vine before, but I'd like to try one along my fence. I'm 5a, SE Idaho, and my soil is fairly alkaline. Do I need to look for a special kind of rose for that kind of soil, or should I just plan on treating the ground heavily?

I love this list! Thank you!

I've never grown a rose vine before, but I'd like to try one along my fence. I'm 5a, SE Idaho, and my soil is fairly alkaline. Do I need to look for a special kind of rose for that kind of soil, or should I just plan on treating the ground heavily?

leggs--you want to avoid roses grafted on multiflora rootstock, which is used by the Canadian producers. Most producers in the western US use Dr. Huey rootstock, which tolerates alkaline soil. Some groups of roses will have trouble getting enough iron if they are growing on their own roots (not grafted). These include rugosas, multiflora ramblers, and most of the polyanthas. The typical modern roses are less sensitive to pH but may show some mild iron deficiency at times.

You must check the pH before trying to adjust. If it is around 7.5, you can apply 1/2 cup of plain sulfur per square yard, under the mulch. This takes 6-12 months to react on the soil.

Thank you. My brain exploded under the impact of all those technical terms, but I will gather my grey matter and go a-researching. Thanks for giving me a place to start!

I forgot to say, many climbing roses are not winter-hardy in zone 5a, so you should ask here before buying a rose. And don't expect the garden center clerk to know the difference.

To simplify my previous comments, most of the potted roses at the garden center will be grafted on the rootstock that is more tolerant of alkaline soil. It is ok up to around pH 7.5.

If alkalinity is a problem, it will show as pale leaves with green veins on the new growth. This indicates iron deficiency caused by alkalinity (pH over 7).

If you don't understand our comments, ask more questions.

Best,
Michael

This post was edited by michaelg on Mon, Sep 16, 13 at 14:17

Hi leggs,
I have lots of roses grafted on multiflora (my soil is alkaline, and I'm in SW Idaho), and some do very well and others not so well, but I'm not sure it's the multiflora causing the problems in those few that don't grow as well. I've changed my tune on the whole multifora issue, I think. Consequently, I order from Palatine (and others) in Canada fairly regularly, and these roses are all grafted on multiflora. I think I have the most problem with chlorosis (expressed with yellowing of leaves) on two roses grafted on Dr Huey, for that matter. I don't worry so much about the pH, I look at the outcome with my roses, and then do any correcting, if necessary. My favorite product for iron deficiency is Hi-Yield soil acidifier, available at nurseries. For me, it works well and faster than other soil amendments and additions I've tried. I hope I haven't muddied the waters for you. I think you'll do very well growing roses in Idaho. In your case, cold winters will be the big issue, but we do not have black spot, the scourge of roses! That's a big plus. Diane

Hi Leggs

Welcome to the wonderful world of rose growing! You've already gotten some good advice on picking a climber, and checking the hardiness is definitely a place to start. If roses need to die to the ground before regrowing in zone 5a, they're not good as climbers since they won't build up enough cane to climb a structure over the summer. With a fence they won't have to climb as high, but you want to pick a hardy rose for your first try.

You also mentioned "rose vine" which leads me to remind you of something about roses - they don't attach themselves to a support the way clematis or morning glory does. You have to attach them on deliberately, and practice bending the canes sideways so the flowering branches shoot up from the middle and you don't just get flowers at the tip of the canes. Roses that have relatively stiff canes are ones where you have to do this early in its life or it's harder to get the amount of bend you want. The ramblers and polyanthas that Michael mentioned tend to have fairly flexible canes and drape nicely over things like a fence, but they're less likely to have the traditional "rose-looking" blooms with the high centered swirls like you see from florists. If you're OK with blooms from a mass of smaller flowers, you have more options, particularly if you're willing to consider roses that have one primary bloom season in early summer (like many ramblers).

Here are some cane-hardy climbers for me in zone 5a, with some indication of color and how stiff they are when mature. You'll want to check them out on helpmefind.com, a wonderful rose resource online, to see more information and pictures.

Aloha - one of the more traditional "rose" blooms, pink, stiff canes
Mme. Caroline Testout, cl. - fluffy pink blooms, stiff canes
Harlekin - white with pink edges, stiff canes
Polka - apricot fluffy blooms, stiff canes
Quadra, Illusion, Ramblin' Red: all dark reddish pink unkillable thorny stiff canes - will survive much colder than our zones
Eden - lovely double white/pink blush with stiff canes, hardy once established but can be finicky to get started
Teasing Georgia, Golden Celebration - light to medium yellow double blooms, OK flexible canes
Petal Pushers, Gartendirektor Otto LInne - small double pink pompoms that drape nicely over a fence
Nahema, Compassion, Blossomtime - all double pink fluffy blooms reasonably flexible canes
Purple Splash - dark pinkish purple and white, semi-double but makes a nice impact
Fourth of July, Joseph's Coat - unusual color blends, bright, semi-double, reasonably flexible
Westerland, Autumn Sunset - semi-double yellow to orange, flexible, not too tall
Awakening - double light pink small blooms, tough as nails and flexible
Darlow's Enigma - single white flowers that bloom without stop even in shade, is a large bush in my yard but could be trained along a fence

I have plenty more climbers, but those are the "usual suspects" that come to mind that would be good for a beginner. Other folks will chime in with more ideas, and you might check old threads about climbers as well.

Have fun!

Cynthia

Thank you! I'm going to start looking up the flowers you mentioned right away! Are any of the "usual suspects" particularly fragrant?

Hmm, I think Aloha, Compassion, Nahema, and the two Austins (Teasing Georgia and Golden Celebration) are supposed to be moderately fragrant, but I have a poor nose for such things and can't vouch for them. Generally in cold zones, we have to sacrifice something for the hardiness and disease resistance, and fragrance is often what goes.

Old garden roses like Mme. Isaac Periere or Reines des Violette climb well and are hardy in my yard, and MIP is one of the most fragrant roses I grow. It doesn't rebloom much for me though after the late spring/early summer flush.

Cynthia

Cynthia - how tall does Henri Matisse get for you?

Thanks for a great thread! I'm pretty new to roses (but enthusiastic) and I'm trying to make educated choices! Happy to see a number of my current roses listed here - Julia Child, for example, has been an excellent performer for me and doesn't seem to need winter protection.

I have a Blue Angel climber that has barely grown in three seasons. Anyone have experience with it in zone 5b?

Ratdogheads - my Henri Matisse stays between around 3-4 feet in a mostly sunny spot, but might be a little larger in a full hot sun location. Suffice to say that planting it behind my Champagne Moment was not one of my brighter ideas, and it involves some judicious pruning to make both of them visible.

Redwolfdoc - welcome to the fun of rose growing, and always feel free to start a new thread on a topic where it might get more response. I checked the website HelpMeFind, a TERRIFIC website for roses and well worth the optional membership fee, to look up Blue Angel. Both the regular and climbing versions of Blue Angel appear to be on the edge of reported hardiness for our zone, but those are default ratings so not anything to discourage you. If that rose has survived your winters, that's already a good start. Blue Angel cl. is reported to only bloom on old wood, which means that it won't bloom well if it has to regrow from dying back to its roots or graft each year, which is typical of some types of climbers that survive but don't thrive in our zones. Still, 3 seasons is still way too soon to make a judgment about a climber. They tend to spend more time than non-climbing forms in putting down roots and preparing to make their moves, so if it grows some or is at least green and healthy-looking in the active seasons, you might give it some more time. In my world, alfalfa hay or pellets is always a good thing to add to a rose to boost its production a bit in spring.

To give you perspective, my Madame Isaac Periere - that is definitely hardy in my zone - was unexciting and unremarkable for 3-4 years while it was putting down roots. Then last spring in its fifth (?) year, it absolutely ate up every rose near it and was stunning in the spring. There's a standard rose wisdom that for roses, first year sleep, second year creep, third year leap. For climbers, you have to give them another year or two of creeping or sleeping before you get leap years.

Hope this helps, and welcome to GW!

Cynthia

Since hardiness came up in a recent thread I'm bumping this one to see if we can get some more suggestions from cold zone rose growers for hardy roses in these categories. Somewhere I had another thread where I rated all my HT/floris by hardiness (obviously I was getting garden stir-crazy last winter), but it seems to have cycled off the archives for a while. Let me know if those records would be helpful and I'll track them down.

Cynthia

This is very useful info, thanks so much!

Any lists of your most disease resistant varieties?

Sorry I'm so late to this party. Just wanted to add that when I lived in eastern Nebraska, I grew a border of 13 Eutins (listed on Cynthia's opening list) for a number of years. Wonderful hardy tough rose--real show-off when it blooms. And I never did anything special to protect it or "rescue" it in the spring. Just let it grow and do its thing.

Ever since those days, I've planted 1-3 Eutins in every garden I've ever started.

Kate

Phlowerpower - glad this list is helpful! I find in zone 5 if you want trouble free roses, I look at hardiness first and then disease resistance as a close second. Generally speaking for me, if a rose is consistently cane hardy it's usually also pretty disease resistant, both because better disease resistance means better cane health going into the winter, and also because many breeders select for both hardiness and disease resistance together. Most Kordes and Buck roses are bred for both qualities, and among shrub roses the Easy Elegance roses (by Lim) are almost bullet proof in both senses.

Looking at my list above, I'd estimate virtually all of these to be mostly to almost totally disease resistant to blackspot (the usual disease problem in my zone). I hesitate to mention this, Kate, but the notable exception from my list is...Eutin. It's funny that you had those great results in Nebraska as well as Kansas. What town was that- I'm in Lincoln. It just goes to show that conditions are different in every garden even within the same zone, but relying on other peoples' recommendation is a great way to pick roses.

Hope that helps. I have more data after this rotten winter, so I'll update those data again after I do the "death count" here in a week or two.

Cynthia

Is there a yellow or lavender HT that doesn't take up a ton of room width or height wise that fares well in Zone 5? I have a Heritage that does beautiful, but never should have planted it where I did cuz it is huge height & width wise. Need something not so wide that is super hearty. Thanks.

Cynthia--this is even odder. I grew those 13 Eutins in Lincoln also.

I don't think I ever claimed Eutin was bs-free--just that it is very resistant to BS (in my gardens, anyway). It was quite cold hardy in Lincoln, however--but I remember thick snow covers in those days--which I assume helped. Don't know what your snow accumulation is these days.

Kate

Hmm, that is a puzzle Kate. Eutin is definitely cold hardy and a pretty frequent bloomer, but perhaps it's the spot between houses that encourages the blackspot in my yard. Air circulation is definitely a factor in these things, as are those pesky microclimates. Regardless, I like this rose and wouldn't disagree at all with your endorsement of it.

NickJoseph - I posted in your other thread about the narrow yellow/red/lavender roses, but since you asked here too I'll paste the response here as well in case someone else has the same question.

For reds, my Veteran's Honor as well as Isabella Rosellini and Madame Delbard have stayed pretty narrow over 3-4 years, and they're in pretty good sun. I'd put them at about 4.5 feet for the first two and maybe 3.5 feet high for Madame Delbard. All have been hardy for me so far, but they grow in my warm pocket.

For narrow lavenders, my Lilac Dawn and Blue Girl have both stayed pretty narrow and are well established. I don't think either is more than 3-4 feet high, and they both had some cane left even after this bad winter. Poseidon and Neptune are gorgeous and nicely hardy, but when happy they'd spread beyond a foot.

For narrow yellows, I don't think the lovely Julia Child will do it for you, as she wants to spread at least as wide as tall when happy. Sunsprite has been narrow for me in my mailbox bed, and is no more than 3 feet tall. Golden Fairy Tale is very tall, at least 5 feet, but mine hasn't spread out very widely so far. All of those are reliably hardy for me in a normal garden space.

Cynthia

Thanks Cynthia so much for your help. I've saved both. You are a wealth of information.