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Longer list of ranked hardiness for HTs in zone 5

Posted by Nippstress 5-Nebraska (My Page) on
Sat, Jan 26, 13 at 2:34

Hi folks

On the way to figuring out which HTs I grew that were cane hardy, I ended up having to rank them all anyway and thought that might be useful to share. The most hardy ones are duplicated from another thread on cane hardy roses. I only ranked the ones I was relatively sure about, which usually means more than two winters in my yard, but I listed some from only one winter with a note like "might be better". The ones I rank a 3 because they're in a zone 6 pocket might be more hardy - I just can't vouch for it. Also note that I winter protect all my yard with 6" high cut up circles of leaves in the winter, so I'm only guessing about the distinctions between those that only grow with protection from those root hardy. I ranked them root hardy if I never have to baby them or worry that they've come back for 3 years or more, but no more than 6-8" of cane survives the winter. I may need to revise this since I didn't have time to do much protection this year - this may be my test case year!

In any case, feel free to add your input from your experience. I coded mine with the numbers below and I think it's a useful distinction, since saying a rose is "hardy" can mean as much as 2 zones difference depending on conditions, location, and amount of rose surviving. Nebraska has yoyo weather from very hot to very cold and dry summers with frequent blackspot of one sort or another. Your survival rate will undoubtedly vary on many of these, but the higher the ranking, the more confident I'd be that the rose would stand a good chance in your zone 5 or warmer garden.

Cynthia

1. Cane hardy - only needs cosmetic pruning in spring, otherwise healthy canes
2. Root hardy - needs pruning mostly to the ground but regrows without protection
2a. Root hardy wimps - survives each winter but tiny & never thrives
3. Root hardy in protected site - same as above but it's in a warmer zone pocket
4. Hardy only with protection - will not come back from graft or roots without several inches of protection in a normal winter, i.e. zone pushing in your zone

HT/Grandifolia Roses hardier than expected in zone 5

1 - cane hardy (w/hybridizer) (those with an asterisk do this in a zone 4 pocket)
Aloha - Boerner
Barcelona/Francis Dubreuil - Kordes
*Black Lady - Tantau
Blue Girl - Kordes
Centennaire de Lourdes - Delbard
Comtesse de Segur - Delbard
*Die Welt - Kordes
Earth Song - Buck
*Folklore - Kordes
Golden Fairy Tale - Kordes
*Hamburger Deern - Kordes
Henri Matisse - Delbard
Intrepid Red - Coiner
Lagerfeld - Christensen
*Lundy's Lane Yellow - unknown
*Paloma Blanca - Buck
Papageno - McGredy (in zone 6 pocket)
*Pearlie Mae - Buck
* Polarstern - Tantau
Savoy Hotel - Harkness (in zone 6 pocket)
Strike it Rich - Carruth
*Yankee Doodle - Kordes

HT/G 2 - root hardy (w/hybridizer)
Acapella - Tantau
Blue Skies - Buck
Brigadoon - Warriner
Broceliande - Adam
Brown Study - Jerabek
Cabana - Zary
Dames de Chenonceau - Delbard
Gilbert Becaud - Meilland
Glowing Peace - Meilland
Gold Medal - Christensen
Governor Mark Hatfield - Von Abrams
Granada - Lindquist
Gruss an Coberg - Leclerc
Imagine - Clements
Jack's Wish - Kirkham
Jolly - Kordes (might be better)
Kordes Brillant - Kordes (might be better)
Lady Hillingdon - Lowe/Shawyer
*Lafter - Brownell
Lolita - Kordes
Love - Warriner
Love & Peace - Twomey & Lim
Maid of Honor - Weddle
Matilda/Love's Promise - Meilland
Peggy Rockefeller - Williams
Preference - Meilland
Red Masterpiece - Warriner
Robert Capucci - Barni
Schwarze Madonna - Kordes (might be better)
Shreveport - Kordes
Smooth Delight - Davidson (might be better)
Smooth Velvet - Davidson (might be better)
Sun Flare - Burks
Tiffany - Lindquist
Velvet Fragrance - Fryer

HT/G 2a - root hardy but wimps (w/hybridizer)
Jema - Perry
Judy Garland - Harkness
Memorial Day - Carruth (probably I have a wimpy plant - others report much better)
Scottish Highlands/House of Time - Cocker (in zone 6 pocket)

HT/G 3 - root hardy in protected site - zone 6 pockets (w/hybridizer)
About Face - Carruth
Acropolis - Meilland
Beloved - Zary
Black Magic - Tantau
Careless Love - Conklin
Charisma - Jelly
Charlotte Brownell - Brownell
Courtoisie - Delbard
Desert Peace - Meilland
Dixieland Linda - Bonnyman
Dream Come True - Weeks
Grey Dawn - Le Grice
Harry G. Hastings - von Abrams
Jalitah - Interplant
Jean Giono - Meilland
Madame Delbard - Delbard
Milestone - Warriner
Mother of Pearl - Meilland
Opening Night - Zary
P.G. Wodehouse - Poulsen
Papa Meilland - Meilland
Paris de Yves St. Laurent - Meilland
Paradise - Weeks
Peter Mayle - Meilland
Pope John Paul II - Zary
Rock & Roll - Carruth (cane hardy in zone 6 pocket)
Samaritan/Lawrence of Arabia - Harkness
Souvenir de Louis Amade - Delbard (cane hardy in zone 6 pocket)
Tahitian Sunset - Zary
Tchaikovsky - Meilland
Uncle Joe/Toro - Kern
Valencia - Kordes
Veteran's Honor - Zary
Yves Piaget - Meilland

HT/G 4 - hardy only with protection (w/hybridizer)
Auguste Renoir - Meilland (might be better)
Black Night - Huber (might be better)
Candy Stripe - McCumings (might be better)
Dick Clark - Bedard (might be better)
Double Delight - Swim (weak plant, might be better)
Enchanted - Jackson & Perkins (might be better)
Heart O' Gold - Dykstra
In the Mood - Carruth
Louise Catherine Breslau - Ducher
Nigrette/Louis XIV - Krause (in zone 6 pocket)
Nostalgie - Tantau (might be better)
Princess Diana - Noack
Spiced Coffee - McGredy
St. Patrick - Strickland
The McCartney Rose - Meilland
Twice in a Blue Moon - Tantau


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Longer list of ranked hardiness for HTs in zone 5

Thanks for posting this great info. I am so lazy, it always astonishes me the lengths people will go to to have roses in very cold (or very hot like in a desert) areas.

Jackie


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RE: Longer list of ranked hardiness for HTs in zone 5

Thanks for the information! I planted some of those last year (my first year rose gardening) and am excited to see what comes back after their first winter in the ground.

Andrea


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RE: Longer list of ranked hardiness for HTs in zone 5

  • Posted by seil z6b MI (My Page) on
    Sat, Jan 26, 13 at 12:57

Very well done! I'm a zone warmer so some of those in categories 3 & 4 do better for me without protection. But that's a very useful list, thanks!


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RE: Longer list of ranked hardiness for HTs in zone 5

Wow, Nippstress! This is such thoughtful and amazingly useful information!

I have been reading through your lists for the past couple of days trying to process and absorb this new info. My head still spins when I think of your success with Barcelona/Francis Dubreuil, for example! I have now spent many happy hours on HMF looking up roses that are unfamiliar to me.

I have decided to add Folklore and Barcelona to my garden based on your experience of winter hardiness. Even if they do not turn out to be quite as successful for me, I will sure be having fun experimenting! :-)

Can you tell me more about Tantau's Black Lady? Not many people seem to grow it, and it appears to be a fragrant dark red HT that many people overlook.

Thank you again for taking the time to compile and post the amazing info in all three of your hardiness posts.

Ispahan


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RE: Longer list of ranked hardiness for HTs in zone 5

Hi folks

Glad you find this list useful! I realize it's a bit of overkill of information when you might only be looking for suggestions for a few roses, but like Seil I enjoy comparing notes with others to see what survives (and decide if it's worth trying a rose that died one more time). And Jacqueline, the point for me in a list like this is to see what to grow to be as lazy as possible, since anything in my yard has to be hardy enough to thrive without spray or fussing. Enjoy the first rose season, Nummykitchen, and don't blame yourself if roses do die - I fear the HTs that have died in my yard may be as long as the ones that survived, but you never know till you try.

Ispahan, glad to help and I hope this isn't too much info to process for what you'd asked about. Like you I spend a lot of time double checking information on HMF, but it's always nice to hear from someone in a similar zone with their experiences too. As for Black Lady, I dearly love that rose and it's tough as nails. It truly is that elusive burgundy dark red color all the time in my yard - no pinking out like some dark reds - and it's thoroughly hardy and disease free as far as my strains of blackspot go (we don't get mildew much here). It's one of only a handful of roses I have multiple plants of in different beds and it holds its own on a nicely compact plant of around 3' or less (both sites have some part sun). My only quibble would be the relatively small flowers compared to other HTs - no more than 2" across or less - maybe between an apricot and a plum size on a good day. I can't vouch for the fragrance with my nose, but I certainly don't detect much of a scent. Still, it's a good rebloomer and entirely trouble free from me. Tantau is another breeder I like a lot, though they do stretch into some roses that aren't good for my zone at times.

Glad this is helpful and you're welcome to ask for more input on anything else I grow.
Cynthia


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RE: Longer list of ranked hardiness for HTs in zone 5

You must have a fabulous rose garden!

What is your experience with Gov. Mark Hatfield? I ask because I bought Ivory Triumph, a floribunda by Von Abrams, last summer and I was astonished to see that it got no BS at all in my damp yard. OTOH, Arpeggio from the same breeder was a BS magnet in its' first year. If I can't get Arpeggio to grow better this summer it may become available for trade to a warmer and dryer climate.


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RE: Longer list of ranked hardiness for HTs in zone 5

Hi Nastarana

Thanks for the encouragement - I was recently complaining about a rotten rose year last year, but I'll try to catch them being good this year and post some pictures. Like all of us, it's a work in progress - that's the fun.

My Gov. Mark Hatfield was from Cliff's mother plants when he broke up the Eurodesert collection, so it was already an established plant and I think it's grafted onto Dr. Huey. Cliff had recommended it as a better dark red than Matilda, though I bought that one too later. I'm not the best judge of BS, since I have a fairly high tolerance for it (being essentially lazy). It blooms fairly regularly and is a tall bush, between 4-5'. I don't recall it losing too many leaves in the season, but being behind other roses might make its BS less noticeable. I definitely think it's worth a try if you liked Ivory Triumph.

Cynthia


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RE: Longer list of ranked hardiness for HTs in zone 5

  • Posted by TNY78 7a-East TN (My Page) on
    Wed, Jan 30, 13 at 21:19

Wow! You do your research don't you?!?!? Even though I'm a couple of zones warmer (6b/7a) I still have problems with some of the more delicate roses and dieback. The fact that you can actually even grow HTs without protection amazes me. Your list is helpful to me because if they're hardy for you, they surely will be for me :)

Tammy


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RE: Longer list of ranked hardiness for HTs in zone 5

Tammy - glad this is helpful, and there seem to be plenty of HTs that are tougher than we think of for that class. To balance it out, though, there are plenty of HTs that I can't overwinter to save my life. And I did mention a bit of a hedge that I winter protect almost every rose in my yard, at least with oak leaves at the base, if not full circles of leaf bags in between. My judgments of hardiness are based on what has survived above the protection in spite of me, or without the protection being very consistent. This year's protection is quite minimal and it'll be interesting to see what survives in the long run.

Cynthia


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RE: Longer list of ranked hardiness for HTs in zone 5

Thank you Cynthia for that great information! The only one I have from your list is Memorial Day. I have 2 of them, one in the ground and one potted in my garage we'll see who survives and thrives come spring!


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