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Bad leaves, what's wrong, pic
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Posted by
teka2rjleffel z10FL (
My Page) on
Mon, Feb 20, 12 at 9:06
This and some other roses that have been strong have a lot of leaves that look like this. The overall effect is that the leaves look gray. This one has the dark edges but other plants only have the dark veins.
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Follow-Up Postings:
RE: Bad leaves, what's wrong, pic
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- Posted by seil z6b MI (My Page) on
Mon, Feb 20, 12 at 9:19
| Chlorotic? Nutrient deficiency? Too much water? Poor drainage? Or not enough water? Gosh, it's hard to say. There are a number of things that can make the leaves look like that. Check the drainage and do a soil test and maybe that will give you some idea of what to do. |
RE: Bad leaves, what's wrong, pic
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| I had a soil test and had trouble figuring out the results. I finally spoke to the lab and they said they didn't know. I was hoping that the soil test would answer my questions. It isn't poor drainage. Since it is ammended sand. But the others are possible. Thanks Seil. |
RE: Bad leaves, what's wrong, pic
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| Perhaps if you share some of the results of your soil test with this forum, some more informed posters can help you interpret them and determine whether they hold clues to what the leaf problem is. In the meantime, keeping sticking a finger down about 4-6 inches every couple days and make sure excessive moisture isn't the problem. You want moist but not wet. Faded leaves with dark veins tend to mean one kind of deficiency, whereas the opposite pattern indicates a different kind of deficiency. If I remember correctly, one pattern means iron deficiency--but I don't remember enough about these symptoms to say for sure. You might try googling to get an answer to the dark veins symptom. Kate |
RE: Bad leaves, what's wrong, pic
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| It is probably manganese (not magnesium) deficiency. This causes interveinal chlorosis with the small veins as well as main veins staying green. Does the soil test include manganese? Was the pH high? Or excess magnesium or potassium? I once had this symptom show up after applying epsom salts. |
RE: Bad leaves, what's wrong, pic
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| They also kind of look like spider mites and chlorosis. Too little water holding capacity in the soil can help establish and maintain both issues. I'd suggest inspecting the under sides of a number of leaves from all over the plant to see if you see mites and webbing. Eliminating them will generally improve the overall appearance and performance of the plant. A nice, heavy mite infestation is like our having a bleeding ulcer. The plant loses sap at an alarming rate, becoming and appearing "anemic" just as undiagnosed bleeding does for us. I doubt they wouldn't be the only issue, but both probably exacerbate each other. Kim |
RE: Bad leaves, what's wrong, pic
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- Posted by beth NorCA 9 (My Page) on
Mon, Feb 20, 12 at 12:09
| My first thought was spider mites too. |
RE: Bad leaves, what's wrong, pic
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| Do you know what Chili thrips symptoms are when infestations start? I don't. But I know that Chili Thrips are a major rose pest in your part of the world and that the CTs have multiple alternative host plants. |
RE: Bad leaves, what's wrong, pic
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| See the image of manganese deficiency at this science-based site. Again, the "tell" is the small cross veins staying green. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Oz Dept of Ag
RE: Bad leaves, what's wrong, pic
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| Could be any, or all of the above. That's what becoming a good diagnostician is all about. Figuring out the problem BEFORE making it expensive and potentially worse by trying to fix it blind. Kim |
RE: Bad leaves, what's wrong, pic
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| Well, somebody produce a corresponding image or description from a science-based site that matches the OP's image as well as manganese deficiency does. I'm always glad to learn. |
RE: Bad leaves, what's wrong, pic
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I checked and saw no evidence of spider mites and there is no webbing. I gave the affected bushes a good hard water spray over and under the leaves. I figured that couldn't hurt.
Ann, I wish I didn't know what Chilli thrip damage looks like but I have them and had for a while. It doesn't look like this.
Kim, the possibility of poor water holding capacity is definitely there. It is heavily ammended but drains very fast.
Michael, the picture does look like what my leaves look like. I have been trying to go 100% organic and I know sometimes the trace elements are tough to get. I also had applied epsom salts. I bought a product that has trace elements and applied it. |
RE: Bad leaves, what's wrong, pic
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- Posted by seil z6b MI (My Page) on
Mon, Feb 20, 12 at 15:33
| teka, the hose spraying certainly couldn't do any damage. Good idea. In a way both Michael and Kim are right. If it is because of too fast water drainage from your sandy soil that could be washing away a lot of the trace nutrients as well. You'll probably have to feed them more because you have to water them more often. I have this kind of problem with all my potted roses. I have to have really good drainage in the pots but that means I have to water more often. And watering more often with all that great drainage washes out the nutrients too so I have to fertilize more often. It's a vicious circle. |
RE: Bad leaves, what's wrong, pic
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| You got it Seil. It also occurred to me that I took out the mulch that I had there, since it was suggested that possibly eucalyptus mulch can harm plants. I replaced it with leaves which don't hold moisture as well. This rose has always been one of my best. It started to decline when I took out the wood mulch. I will add mulch on top of the leaves, just not eucalyptus. |
RE: Bad leaves, what's wrong, pic
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| That's an unusual looking problem for roses in Florida. I've had all the usual problems myself :) I would guess it's a nutrient or pH imbalance. It's not chilli thrips. It might be spider thrips since it's that time of year, but since you say it isn't, I'm sticking with nutrient imbalance. Did you apply any new fertilizer or amendments before you noticed this? |
RE: Bad leaves, what's wrong, pic
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| Eucalyptus can harm plants. There are few plants "happy" to grow under them, partly due to the generous, copious litter they constantly dump, but also partly due to the substances which leach out of the litter. I've used their leaves to kill off weed growth and prevent it from regrowing. I wonder if what you are seeing are the built-up effects of the eucalyptus which may have taken longer due to the extra high drainage rate? Unfortunately, the nasty things have run wild here in Southern California, spreading their debris and stench everywhere. Beautiful from a distance, but only in YOUR yard, not mine! Kim |
RE: Bad leaves, what's wrong, pic
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| Amberroses, no I didn't add anything unusual, just some alfalfa tea. Not on the foliage. Kim, You may have a point. I have been applying it for years, thinking I was doing the right thing and not destroying the cypress groves for mulch. |
RE: Bad leaves, what's wrong, pic
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| Michael G said manganese deficiency, not magnesium. However, green veins and a yellow leaf are symptoms of magnesium deficiency on mature, older leaves, while green veins and yellow leaves are symptoms of iron deficiency on newer, younger leaves. Your leaves look like older leaves, I think. However, CHECK pH FIRST. As you know, if the pH is off, the bush has problems taking up nutrients. I had a rose in a pot and pH became very acidic (low number) with time and watering. I added lime (to raise the pH) and did not need to do anything else and the leaves greened up. Good luck. |
RE: Bad leaves, what's wrong, pic
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| Thanks Kathy, it's good advice. Actually all of the leaves look like this, new and old. This has been one of my most reliable roses, so it is especially tough to see. I will do a PH test. |
RE: Bad leaves, what's wrong, pic
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| Try digging a small hole near the plant and see what the soil is like below. Too dry too wet? My sister had a huge rose that suddenly just laid down and died. When she dug it up the soil around it at the surface was OK but down about 4-5 inches it was bone dry. I have experienced alfalfa drying out on the surface and the water just rolls off like peat does when it gets dry. When you are watering it seems to be soaking in when in fact it is running off to the sides. Hope you find the problem! No one likes seeing their kids sick! Lee |
RE: Bad leaves, what's wrong, pic
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Lee, I checked and it's OK 6" down but then I have been giving it lots of water since I started this post, so possibly that was an issue. I only put the tea on the roses not the alfalfa mush. I had the same experience that you referred to of it crusting. Thanks for your input.
I loved your last line! |
RE: Bad leaves, what's wrong, pic
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| The patterns of green and yellow are different and distinct between iron, magnesium, and manganese deficiencies--that is, the deficient leaves can be diagnosed pretty reliably by appearance regardless of where they are on the plant. Magnesium deficiency starts on the lowest leaf on a cane and moves gradually upward. However, there is a strip of green on either side of the green vein that is distinctive. Manganese deficiency has green lateral veins in addition to the main vein. Iron deficiency has green main veins only and affects the newest growth most dramatically. But in cases of longstanding deficiency of any of the three, the whole plant can show symptoms. |
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