The only flaw that comes with her, and it is a big one, is that she has fungal disease problems that are persistent and really annoying in my organic/no-spray garden. She gets rust, powdery mildew, if there is the slightest possibility for black spot, she has it, and she defoliates very easily. A friend of mine, who lives close by, is growing Bewitched, too, and the rose shows the same problems, which indicates it is not my specimen it is the rose itself, that has this weakness in my climate.

So I am wondering if I could find a better substitute for her. If I could have my way it would have all the virtues of Bewitched that I listed above, but it is disease-resistant. Do you have any suggestions? Thanks in advance!

Christina

Any other recommendations for a good, healthy pink HT similar to Bewitched?

Christina

kittymoonbeam, never heard of Flamingo so far. I will also research that rose. No disease is certainly a very impressive quality in a rose, but I prefer fragrant roses over non-fragrant ones if I can get them. Anyway, thanks for pointing that rose out to me.

Christina

And it's fragrant!

My experience has been that the commercially named roses from Week's, bred by Tom Carruth, have generally been very good roses. I don't mean the "disposible ones", the ones named for celebrities as they are the "rose du jour" and will fade with the waning of the celebrity's popularity.

Look, instead, to the ones named with commercially good, lasting names. Neptune, instead of Barbra Streisand. Memorial Day instead of todays headline grabber. Generally, these are the roses the breeder and the company believe to be the better plants and they've bestowed good, lasting commercial names on them to help keep them around and popular for as long as possible. I'm not saying a celebrity rose can't have a pretty flower or can't be good somewhere, but on the average, they aren't going to be AS good AS many places which is why the company permitted them to bear such names. Sell as many as you can to bring in the revenue (which is SORELY needed!) until the popularity of the namesake wanes, then off to the next one. But, the solid names on the solid plants will continue for years go come (hopefully!).

Kim, great that you are second Secret and Secret's Out.
Your thoughts about roses named after celebrities are very interesting. Never occurred to me, that these roses might be "second choice roses".
Do you think that also goes for Marilyn Monroe? Whenever I have seen that rose it looks pretty spectacular to me, but I am not sure about the disease resistance, since I have not grown it by myself.

Christina

FJ

wanttogarden, I have heard good things about Julia Child, too. Thanks for chiming in and rescuing the reputation of roses named after celebrities ;-)!

Christina

I'm also very interested in those comments about 2nd tier roses being named for people. Roseseek, are you commenting primarily on North American rose breeders/companies who release or do you feel this is international as well?

I note David Austin roses have named several recent introductions after people, while stating they are some of the best yet. (I'm thinking of the mayflower sport Susan Williams Ellis and Darcy Bussell.) Not arguing with you by any means, roseseek, just curious to keep the discussion going and value your thoughts. :)

It's long been written you can determine what a breeder feels about a rose based upon what he names it. A wise man doesn't name junk for his wife, daughter, mother, etc. At least in the eyes and mind of its creator, a rose named for the breeder's wife/mother/daughter is as fine a creation as he is able to create.

A "lasting" name, Marilyn, Julia, etc., those held by people who have been a force for long periods and whose reputations will continue long after anyone who actually knew them remain, will still be remembered. Traditionally, "entertainers", politicians, etc. receive second tier roses because the popularity of the rose is so often dependent upon the popularity of the person. If you had two roses to introduce, one being an "OK" rose and the other something rather nice, which are you likely to name for a Marilyn Monroe and which will you doom with a name for one of the Kardashians? Marilyn Monroe will likely retain her fascination for many decades to come. The persona has become iconic. Julia Child secured her position in history. I seriously doubt anything like that can ever be said for the other examples.

As for David Austin roses, none of the traditional rules apply. For European breeders, the comments about not naming dogs for loved ones holds true. European tax laws have created some odd names to American tastes. For McGredy to name a rose Mullard Jubilee to commemorate the anniversary of an electronics manufacturer, with likely free goods being paid instead of monies to avoid taxes, seems very odd to us here. When brought Stateside, that rose became Electron. Elina is a nice yellow rose here, but we would never accept Peadouce, a brand of disposable diapers in our gardens. Roses named for alcoholic beverages abound, but most have been renamed for our markets to make them more commercial.

Austin, now he has changed the rules of most of rosedom to fit his desires. If he names a rose and tells you why, consider yourself blessed. He most often keeps his breeding information to himself as it's none of your business what he used to create the rose. Feel special he chose to tell you why the rose is called what it is.

Christina

Celebrity names! That tells me something. No wonder 'Dick Clark' does not appeal to me. (Nothing against Dick Clark the person at all.)

Though 'Julia Child' is spectacular, really spectacular. She got a rose to equal her warm and wonderful character. She's beyond mere celebrity.

'Marilyn Monroe' I always though seems so perfectly named: you have this jaw-dropping beauty along with a lot of serious drawbacks!

Or, if you can live with OGR form, Yves Piaget is a wonderful darkish pink rose, and I just got one called "Grand Dame" from Weeks that is supposed to be an improvement on Yves Piaget, but I can't vouch for it (yet).

hoovb, will try in case I get Tiffany that I buy a non-virused version. But how can you be sure other than buy it own-root and virused indexed?
Like your funny comment on Marilyn Monroe :-)!

kstrong, I will have a look at Waiheke, never heard of that one before.
I am happy to life with OGR form ;-). Yves Piaget is already on my wish list. I have seen this rose blooming in the gardens of two rose friends and the rose is gorgeous!
I thought that Yves Piaget is already pretty perfect. Do you know what the improvement of Grand Dame shall be in comparison to Yves Piaget?
I am growing Belinda's Dream own-roots from Heirloom Roses. She is only in a 2 gallon pot right now, but has given me quite some lovely blooms already. And oooh, what a fragrance.

Thank you all for chiming in here!

Christina

Waiheke was a strong grower, blooming heavily in Newhall when I grew it there in the 80s and 90s. Sexy Rexy did as well there then, too.

kstrong, Yves Piaget looked pretty vigorous to me already, but I think have heard that sometimes he has problems with powdery mildew. Please, let us know if Grand Dame is really superior to Yves Piaget. I am curious.

Christina

Tiffany is better in the heat - maintaining consistent blooms throughout, although a bit smaller and flatter in high heat. Bewitched almost goes dormant, but in cooler weather, her blooms are huge!

A fully open blossom on both are almost indistinguishable in good conditions, though. Bewitched even has some faint yellow highlights toward the center, which is what Tiffany is known for.

All that's to say I agree with Tiffany - same pink, absolutely - and a wonderful bush. As michaelg indicates, one of the best examples of a Hybrid Tea rose. Vigorous, super long-stems while maintaining a bushy habit, and a Gamble fragrance award winner.

I'm not sure I agree with some of the others mentioned. MAAB, for instance, has excellent blooms but the color is consistently dark hot-pink, very Electron in color and perhaps a half-shade lighter than Rina Hugo. Not a valid comparison with the pink of Bewitched and Tiffany, iow.

rosetom, what you have to say about Tiffany sounds very good. I will have a closer look at this rose. Thanks for your detailed response!

By the way, my own Bewitched has continued to give me some of the most beautiful and fragrant pink blooms this year. Her leaves are diseased (powdery mildew) and sparse at this point. I was on a rose garden tour lately organized by the San Diego Rose Society and saw a specimen of Bewitched in a garden where roses are grown organically. According to the owner the rose bush was at least seven years old and it was very big and completely healthy! Maybe there is hope...

Christina

Here she is in May 2011...

I can tell you that when I grew Secret in a container while living in El Cajon, the rose was completely disease free.

Jenn .... that is a beautiful photo of Bewitched !

Smiles,
Lyn

Hi Christina: I wonder if your Bewitched is in the ground or in the pot? I wondered why the roses in the pots at the store defoliated so quickly... finally found the answer: fungal growth germinates better in an acidic environment like potting soil

There's a study, the joint venture of Sweden and United Kingdom, entitled "Contrasting soil pH effects on Fungal and Bacterial Growth". It stated, "This experimental location provides a uniform pH gradient, ranging from pH 8.3 to 4.0 .. The growth-based measurements revealed a fivefold decrease in bacterial growth and a fivefold increase in fungal growth with lower pH. .. Below pH 4.5 there was universal inhibition of all microbial variables."

The pH of alfalfa meal is 5, more acidic than MiracleGro potting soil at 6.5. Horse manure pH is over 8, very alkaline and sits in my garage with zero mold. But when I mixed horse manure with alfalfa meal and peat moss (pH of 4), there's this HUGE growth of white mold on top. When I checked on alfalfa tea, someone mentioned that her roses black spotted after the alfalfa tea application.

Alkalinity is a blessing when it discourages fungal growth. That's the logic behind spraying mildew with baking soda, pH of 9. I'll continue mulching my roses with very alkaline horse manure (the stable here uses lime to deodorize). I checked with folks at the Soil Forum whether the lime leaches down to the roots ... they told me that lime, or Calcium Carbonate stays put where it's applied.

Lyn, thanks for the info about 'Secret'. It is very valuable information that it grew disease free in a container for you.

Krista, I don't know Perfume Delight. Thanks for the tip! I will look it up and research it a bit more.

Ken, I have 'Belinda's Dream' already and love it. Mine is still in a five gallon pot and it is very vigorous. I think in Southern California there is no need to have it on fortuniana it seems to be a strong enough grower on its own roots. But thanks for sharing your experience.

Lesley, and yet another vote for Tiffany. It must really be a very good rose, when it does well for so many people in even different climates. Thanks for your input!

Strawberryhill, my 'Bewitched' is still growing in a pot. Interesting study that you mention. Maybe things get better for my 'Bewitched', when it is finally planted in the ground.

Christina