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Planting a Rose and Clematis Together

Posted by Kes4353 7 E TN (My Page) on
Fri, Feb 21, 14 at 12:15

I am thinking of doing this but have never done it before.
I have a lovely little Super Jane that was doing well until deer predation. I decided to move it to a less vulnerable spot last fall. I potted it up but didn't get it replanted before the weather turned. It is sitting in my protected overwintering area where, BTW, it is doing well in spite of the terrible winter. (As an aside, my two California-born-and-bred roses have done better than all but several of the other new roses and that includes a couple Tennessee-born-and-bred roses! Who knew?)

I've heard that clematis isn't a favorite of deer and thought I might try growing the two together as a deer deterrent for the rose, although I know that if deer are hungry, all bets are off. Also, it's a look I really admire. I found a native called clematis versicolor. I really like the looks and manner of it. I think that it should grow here and would handle the same conditions as Super Jane.

I've never done this before. Any suggestions? Do I wait till one is established before planting the other? Which one? Does anyone have experience growing this rose and/or clematis?

Here is a link that might be useful: clematis versicolor


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Planting a Rose and Clematis Together

Lovely clematis....but new to me....although I do grow a similar one, C.crispa, which thrives on the wet edges of my woods. Regarding growing with roses.....well, this is a classic combo but whether you get even a smidgeon of deer prevention is not something I would be laying bets on....but whatever, many clems do and will complement roses....with certain caveats. The large flowered types which flower on old wood (pruning group 2) are a 'mare to grow with roses. Leaving enough wiry stems to get a good flowering flush the following year....and dealing with rose pruning to a greater or lesser degree, can be frustrating. Far, far better to keep to clematis which flower on new wood (many species, herbaceous type, integrifolia, flammula) and probably best of all, the viticellas or (if you are Z8-10, texensis) since the pruning can be done at about the same time as the roses and usually can be cut back quite hard to around 12inches. Some of the smaller earlies are also good (alpinas, macropetalla....but not montana or armandii - too vigorous) and also the small evergreen New Zealand types of C.cirrhosa.


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RE: Planting a Rose and Clematis Together

I don't have any problems with them together.


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RE: Planting a Rose and Clematis Together

Mmmmm, having spent several hours this afternoon, attempting to untangle Fireworks (group2) from a rampant Schoener's Nutkana (the colours together are inflammatory), I am feeling a little less sanguine about dealing with roses or clems which cannot be dealt with by doing a hard chop underneath the rose canes, rather than pulling those brittle clematis canes into some semblance of order while the viciously prickly rose has been utterly unco-operative. Not saying it can't be done, just that there are some combos of rose and clems which are easier to maintain.
Your lovely pic, Toolbelt, does definitely show the advantages of growing the earlier large flowered types with roses in that they are in flower at the same time....unlike many viticellas, which often seem to coincide with the non-blooming month between flushes....and miss the once blooming roses altogether.


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RE: Planting a Rose and Clematis Together

  • Posted by AquaEyes 7 New Brunswick, NJ (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 21, 14 at 14:39

Campanula, I think the Type 2 clematis do better with larger climbing roses which don't require as much pruning. I'm planning on this combination for my "fence climbers", but not until the roses I planted have reached "trellis-size". I agree that the shrubbier roses which get pruned annually would do better with a Type 3, but, again, I'd caution waiting until the rose grows larger than the ultimate size of the clematis -- you don't want the clematis overpowering the rose.

I just purchased my first clematis to climb with a rose. This time, it's a Type 3, and it's going to climb with 'Jaune Desprez' into my old (and probably dying) Japanese maple in front of my house. The clematis I chose is a fairly new cultivar, called 'Sweet Summer Love'. It's a hybrid of Sweet Autumn clematis, but with purplish-pink flowers. I know these types bloom on new wood, but I think I'll let that "new wood" start a few feet up into the tree, where the branches start. I'm thinking that the colors of the rose and the clematis will make for a dramatic combination, and even if they don't flower during the same time, at least I'll get a longer time period of fragrant flowers in the tree.

:-)

~Christopher


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RE: Planting a Rose and Clematis Together

  • Posted by AquaEyes 7 New Brunswick, NJ (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 21, 14 at 14:48

Addendum -- if you grow big Alba roses and mostly "leave them be" with regards to pruning, then I think a Type 2 clematis would also work well growing within them. The point is that these clematis do best in large roses that are allowed to remain large without any major pruning.

:-)

~Christopher


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RE: Planting a Rose and Clematis Together

I've grown clemantis and roses together. It generally works, but I think they both do better grown apart. As others have mentioned, pruning becomes more difficult. Sometime the clemantis smothers the rose.


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RE: Planting a Rose and Clematis Together

I grow different clematis with most of my climbing roses.

One general word of advice: plant the clematis about a foot away from where the rose is planted. It will make life easier somewhere down the road.

I have never run into pruning problems with my climbers/clematis. I guess the rose climbers I plant are rarely in need to pruning--so it doesn't make a lot of difference to me.

The type 2 clematis include some of the most beautiful clems--but type 2 clems often seem to be more susceptible to problems like wilt. I grow mostly type 3 clems--they seem hardiest and most self-sufficient. But I don't worry about it a lot if occasionally I want a type 2 badly enough that I go ahead and plant it.

I wouldn't wait to plant the clems. Like roses, first year they sleep, second year they creep, and third year they leap. If you wait a couple year for the rose to get a head start, it will still be a few more years in the future before the clem does much of anything.

My rose climbers are always hefty enough that they have no problem supporting a clinging vine like a clematis.

Good luck--you'll love your clems.

Kate


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RE: Planting a Rose and Clematis Together

I have had some types of clematis that have been waaay up there on the deer candy list. The only plant I have totally lost due to deer was a clematis. So if deer are an issue, I'd lean towards sticking with the standard large flowered hybrids, and staying away from other types, particularly natives. C. integrifolia is one I have to keep in cages because the deer will find them, even buried in mounds of catmint, they still have issues.


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RE: Planting a Rose and Clematis Together

  • Posted by subk3 7a/Mid TN (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 21, 14 at 20:11

Clematis versicolor is, I believe, a bit different as it is a native plant. I did a quick look up and I'm seeing "dry woods" and "semi-shade" so you might want to do a bit of research as to whether the sun/shade and moisture needs of the clematis and the rose are going to be similar enough to each other as well as appropriate for the site you've chosen.

I grow a some hybrid type clematis with a couple climbing roses. I think one of the reasons is works so well is that the clematis likes to have its roots in a more shaded location then the vine grows into full sun. The rose does a nice job of keeping the roots shaded. I too have my clematis planted a foot or two away from the base of the rose.

Here's the ubiquitous New Dawn with the equally ubiquitous Jackmanni:


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RE: Planting a Rose and Clematis Together

Oh! My! Gosh! Toolbelt and Subk3, pictures like yours are what inspired me to try this companion planting!

Christopher and camps, your point about rose selection is well taken. Super Jane is a hybrid musk, although a modern one. Clematis versicolor blooms (according to Plant Delights) in April-June and then again in Sept. and October. I think that they will bloom together. I hope. That's why I asked for others' experiences. Super Jane doesn't have a lot of thorns and I chose her for that reason. I don't want to deal with yet another rose that fights back when I prune. BTW, Christopher, I so wish I could grow albas. Maybe someday...

Thanks for your spacing and timing suggestions, kidhorn and dublinbay. When I plant my rose, I'll make a point of having my clematis ready to go in, too. I'm glad that they can be planted that close together. It will make it easier to find the best spot for both.

Mad_gallica, that is disappointing. Deer are always a factor here since I live on the edge of a woods. I know that when deer here are hungry the way they have been this winter, they'll eat whatever they can find. This year, for example, they ate 3/4 of the leaves and buds off my camellia, something they've never bothered in the past. I may need to rethink the location if I decide to go through with this.

The pruning thing makes a lot of sense. I don't know where I read it and will have to go back and check, but I thought that the little clematis I'm considering died back quite a bit and could be cut back completely in late winter. I hope that's right. If not, I'll look for one that can.

Subk3, you make a very good point about checking to see if Super Jane and clematis versicolor can handle the same growing conditions. Super Jane seems to be a tough girl to survive her setbacks but I haven't had her long enough to draw any conclusions. I live on the edge of a dry woods on top of a small hill that's on top of a larger hill. Keeping plants moist enough is a battle for me. I would like to plant Super Jane on a trellis on the side of a small building that faces east/southeast. She will get morning sun and dappled shade/light shade the rest of the day. Our soil is horrible here- dry clay and rocks- so I amend it quite a bit with compost and mulch. It sounded like the clematis could handle regular garden conditions so I thought that the extra watering and soil amendments for the rose wouldn't hurt the clematis. This clematis is supposed to be less prolific than other natives and play well with others so I thought that it might be a good one for me to try. This is coming from the nurseries that have it for sale, though.

Thanks, everyone, for taking the time to respond.


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RE: Planting a Rose and Clematis Together

  • Posted by AquaEyes 7 New Brunswick, NJ (My Page) on
    Sat, Feb 22, 14 at 14:54

Regarding the wait-time for clematis to "take-off" -- I know that "normally" they don't really "show their stuff" until their third year, but back in my old garden, my Type 2 clematis grew like gangbusters. I don't know if it was because the plants were very mature when purchased, or if there was something extra special about my soil, or maybe all the rain we get in this area (that was Long Island, NY...I'm nearby in central NJ now), but mine grew very fast their first year. And in their second year, with no pruning other than nipping back dead tips after Winter, they easily reached 8' tall (and that's height from the ground -- considering they were spiraled around posts, their actual stem-lengths were longer).

So I'm not planning on putting clematis along the fence until next year. They'll be planted centrally between each "fence climber" rose, with bird netting hung along the length of the fence and a few inches from the slats. By that time, the roses I planted last year will have enough length to be tied in place, and the clematis can figure things out between them. And the companion perennials I'm putting in this year will have filled in a bit, offering shade at the ground where the clematis are planted. If the ones I get turn out to grow more slowly, I don't mind. I'd rather have that than have them take off earlier than I planned.

:-)

~Christopher


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RE: Planting a Rose and Clematis Together

Not a great pic, but autumn joy and awakening seem to do well together.


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