I'll send you the two lists, if your setting accepts e-mail. If not, then you can ask Burling at BurlingtonRoses@aol.com for those two lists. She grows Kim Rupert's two thornless creations: Annie Laurie McDowell and Super Jane - both are fragrant, and reported smoother than Renae. Her China doll Weeping is smoother, gorgeous, and reported better than Climbing Pinkie.

You will find lots of good info. in those 2 lists.

Strawberryhill, are any of those three on Burling's current list? Thanks. Kim

Thanks Karl for info. on Blushing Pink Knock-out. That's a big improvement on the VERY THORNY red single Knock-out It poked me at the local Lowe's but I bought it, since there was no other choices back then.

From the reports of people being poked badly by thorns, it's usually from pruning or moving roses. I have my share of prickles being stuck in my fingers for the entire month from cutting Austin roses for vase. I found flexible deerskin gloves which protect my hands.

My six Knock-outs are really ugly in the winter with scary thorns - I can't wait to get thornless roses, both for looks and for safety.

Mrs. Dudley Cross is basically thornless, has beautiful pink/yellow blooms but isn't quite as bushy as Belinda and doesn't bloom as heavily for me.

Four feet isn't very tall for the roses we're discussing and the whole area only appears to be about four by three feet, which also isn't very large.

Personally, I'd think you would be MUCH better off using something like a Myrtis communis compacta, Dwarf Myrtle. If you want to form it like that so it's dense and perfect, you can form a chicken wire cage to the size and shape you desire, then plant it densely with the Dwarf Myrtle, keeping it trimmed tightly to the wire form, as they do for topiary. It is ever green; nothing eats it; it smells heavenly; grows virtually anywhere, in any level of sun; flowers nicely with attractive blue berries which don't stain and aren't poisonous; and it gets very dense and soft. It would be beautiful and it wouldn't bite the mail man (or you!). Plus, there is NO deadheading to keep it flowering and it doesn't get ANY fungal diseases. What could be more perfect? Kim

I notified HMF that Bouquet Parfait is NOT thornless as they stated. HMF also stated that Abraham Darby is nearly thornless, and this needs to be corrected.