This 13 year plus 'Abraham Darby' was interesting:

The above is the living part of the plant. The rest died. Looking closely (note the "C" shape at the top)...

I realized that this part is a part of the rose that went own root. The stem emerged from the side of the bud union, and because the bud union was half-buried, roots formed out the bottom of that stem. The "C" shape at the top was where it was connected to the original bud union, which had dried up and crumbled away as I dug it up.

This poor 'Abraham Darby' was moved once to often, and then the spot where it ended up got shadier and shadier, and I was planning to remove it for a long time anyway, because the Rust was just horrific. But now that it is dug up and the dead bits discarded, I find I have a fairly substantial own root Abe, and I'm so tempted to replant it in a sunnier spot and see if I can get more than a one-cane wonder out of it. Just can't let go of Abe.

Do you investigate why your failed roses have failed? What have you learned?

Since I rarely have the courage to dig up anything with a breath of life still in it by the time I dig out the dead ones there's usually not much left to learn from.

Yes ! If a rose is not thriving, I will dig it up to see what is going on with the roots. I think I have learned more about roses that way than just by observing the top growth.

In a couple of weeks, after it gets a bit warmer, I plan to dig up three roses that I may have sited wrong and need to be planted in a warmer part of the garden. This is the first year that we have had heavy snow that lasted for several weeks at my elevation, since I bought my house in the mountains. The bed where the troubled roses are located was where the snow melted last, which, to me, indicates it is a colder part of the garden and the roses are subject to cold air flows. I am hoping they will surprise me when I move them, but there may be something else going on in the root zone. I'll know more when I finally dig them up.

Smiles,
Lyn

...round here, if it's dead- the winter did it almost certainly.

Last year I transplanted a noisette into more sun in a spot it should have loved. It got even sicker looking awhile after I moved it. Puzzled I dug it up to check on it as the soil, I thought was wonderful. After I took it out and dug down, I ran into a line of old tires that had been buried under the split rail fence where I'd planted the rose. I figured it was being poisoned from the tires and moved it again. It perked up so I guess that was the problem.

Near there I dug down because there is a spot where grass will not grow and it really bugged me. I found a bunch of old asphalt chunks that had been buried. I think the asphalt is there to help stabilize the dirt at the edge of a sloped area. Sure plays havoc with plants.

I hope the Abes are happy together, Hoovb.

Anyway, I went to Antique Rose Emporium and came home with 3 Mme Antoine Mari tea roses. They filled the entire bed that had held 13 azaleas, and bloomed most of the year. Then they started declining a couple of years ago. That puzzled me. So last year I decided to dig the bed. I had originally put weedblock down, and it had about a 2" layer of leaf litter on top of it, and didn't block weeds but water. We had just had a substantial rain, and the roses were totally dry. They were dying from being dehydrated. I had to toss one, moved another, and left the one in the center, and cut out the weedblock (horrible task), and have planted a lot of different things in that bed now.

Here's the bed now, you can see Mme Antoine Mari blooming in the center, in front of the window unit.

I did find some gall on the roots of a potted plant that was just sitting there so I threw it out. Love Abe Darby.

" I think some roses don't do well in the ground if the roots are too small, and if grown on in pots until they're a pretty substantial size they will then have the energy to thrive in the ground."

I agree completely. I've even tested this theory in my current garden and have seen the difference in plant performance between plants that have a larger root mass compared to plants with a smaller root mass at the time of planting.

I think the plants with the larger root mass have more material/tools to take up moisture and nutrients and are less stressed during the transplanting process.

This is just my personal observation in a challenging gardening area.

Smiles,
Lyn

Also brings to mind the Cercis tree I just dug out. The roots were mostly round and round the rootball, not streched out at all even being surrounded with excellent soil. Once they start circling in the pot they are going to do that forever. I was careful to replace the Cercis with new trees recently upsized in pots--no circles. Though it made it easier to get the Cercis out...

Last year I had some really bad bare root orders. Roots were shaved down to nothing from three big mail order companies. Two of their three canes conked out within a month of planting. Of the two I dug up, no root hairs were developing. A year after putting them into pots the top growth is telling me they may be ready to go back in the ground. The two I left in the ground hoping for the best just died as soon as summer hit. Oh and the ones that survived in the ground were misnamed. I probably could have struck out less if I'd gone to Big Lots. Mary

Lyn, I face some degree of the same problem you have with challenging soil. Seems like roses are remarkably drought tolerant but first they have to get established.
My soil is light, wonderful to dig, but drains fast.
HoovB, it's amazing that professional landscapers would mess up the soil like that. Someone once said that it's not what you don't know, but what you know that ain't so that's a problem. In my area professional tree men often go around topping trees, completely ruining their beauty.
I have some large beautiful trees and a tree man stopped to talk to me the other day, wondering if I want my trees topped. I was thinking he's got his eyes out for a natural shaped tree that could be ruined. Geeze. I thought that was a local tree man affliction but I hear it goes on in CA too.

I truly wonder if anyone really has good soil. Mine drains well and holds the moisture, but you can't dig in it. I was new to gardening when I bought this house and went about creating the rose beds in such a way that I am now going to have to re-work them and do them right.

Gardening in glacier slurry/subsoil is an adventure. Believe it or not, the water runs from rose hole to rose hole with just a slight variation in the grade in the bed along the fence in front of the slope....not to the french drain I put in when I bought the house. When I deep watered the roses at a slightly higher grade at one end of the bed, the water moved on down the bed and drowned the roses at the other end. I didn't know that was the reason those roses were not thriving until I dug one of them up.

This year, I need to rework the whole bed so that the soil is consistent. I am dreading this project because, it's huge.

Smiles,
Lyn