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Yellow leaves on Peace Rose

Posted by neurotic Zone 9 (My Page) on
Thu, Feb 16, 12 at 16:58

I am a new member here on GardenWeb. I apologize if this has been asked a million times. I did a search but could not figure out how to search specifically the rose forum. Searching for yellow rose leaves mainly found posts asking about the yellow flower color.

I recently planted 3 bare root roses. This is my first time planting roses as well as my first time planting anything bare root. Two other varieties seem to be doing great but my peace rose has yellowing leaves. The new growth looks perfectly fine but older leaves turn yellow in random patterns. All three roses were planted in the same compost mixture in 7 gallon pots.

I am thinking it is probably the mosiac virus but hoping it is just a mineral deficiency.

Peace Rose 1992
Peace Rose 2006


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Yellow leaves on Peace Rose

Welcome neurotic, you're in great company! Because your newer foliage looks appropriate and the older leaves are not THAT old; the symptoms seem isolated to those two sets of leaves, and it doesn't resemble any fungal issues I've observed, I would think it more likely a viral issue than nutrient deficiency or disease. I could be wrong, but that would be my first impression. Kim


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RE: Yellow leaves on Peace Rose

um, well, it looks rather more like a mineral deficiency to me - possibly magnesium which tends to affect the older leaves. If the compost mix is high in base fertiliser, especially too much nitrogen, it can cause other minerals to become 'locked up' in the soil.
There has been a lot of discussion regarding mosaic virus in roses but here in the UK, this is not really on our radar. Whether we simply ignore it, I couldn't say, but amongst the plethora of problems associated with any plants, RMV has not really reared its head yet. (Rose Replant otoh.....)


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RE: Yellow leaves on Peace Rose

Thanks for the replies. The soil is essentially just composted horse manure. I was assuming since the other two roses in the same compost aren't showing any yellowing it was probably not mineral related. Still, it couldn't hurt to add a little magnesium and see what happens.


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RE: Yellow leaves on Peace Rose

Neurotic, I would think the main concern is the nearly pure, composted horse manure you've planted in. You would be MUCH safer using a traditional potting soil in those pots. The composted horse manure is wonderful stuff for garden use, but it can easily be too moisture retentive for pot use. Consider it an amendment, even mulch, but not a planting soil. It probably doesn't have the right texture to hold the roots and water properly.

Soil has to have varying sizes of particles to permit air and water to circulate properly. Otherwise, it can become either too wet or have pockets which are too dry and the roots won't perform their appointed functions properly. If the mixture is too light, it will inhibit root growth because there is too much air and not enough solidity for the roots to hold on to. Trying to transplant the bushes when it's time can easily result in the soil ball disintegrating instead of holding firmly together.

If the mix is too heavy and dense, it can hold too much water and insufficient air. That can easily "sour", forming hydrogen sulfide instead of containing oxygen. You might poke a thin bamboo stake into the cans around the perimeters then pull it out and smell it. If you detect a sour smell instead of the expect damp soil scent, the mix is rotting and the plants will fail. If it smells as expected, that hasn't happened. It doesn't mean it can't, just that it hasn't yet.

You can also poke a finger into the drainage holes around the pots to check for the sour smell. You've probably smelled that smell when un potting plants which have been over watered, sat in too deep saucers of standing water or others which have stopped draining.

I seriously would not begin adding fertilizers to those pots at all. I'm genuinely concerned what you describe as the planting medium is improper and can result in problems. I feel you would be much safer diagnosing whether you detect any soil souring first, carefully watering and continuing to check for souring once or twice a week until you're confident the pots are sufficiently developed to permit planting out in the garden. I'd get them in the ground and settled before adding any fertilizers.

That horse manure compost won't move the salts from the fertilizers like decent garden soil will. It can absorb too much which can burn the new roots, which are very likely still too small and young for safe fertilizing. Waiting until there is a more established root ball, then planting them in the ground and settling in before you add fertilizers is a hole lot safer than starting to add salts in that smaller soil ball. I would not use organics in the pots of composted horse manure. I fear what you have could be "too rich", too organic as it is. Organic material is a great thing to make good soil from, but too much of it is not a good thing. I would seriously suggest more of a "wait and see" approach. I doubt you can harm them by watching for souring, permitting them to develop more then planting them out before fertilizing. I know you can easily and quickly over fertilize newer bare roots in pots, particularly if there might be an issue with the medium they are planted in. Good luck. Kim


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RE: Yellow leaves on Peace Rose

I figured the soil wasn't exactly the best medium for pots. I used it anyway just because it is close to free and my budget for potting soil was stretched a little thin. In retrospect this might not have been the best decision :)

I've been watering about once a week and luckily the soil doesn't seem to be holding too much water. I checked the pots and they all smell earthy but I will keep watching them.. or sniffing them rather.

Thanks


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RE: Yellow leaves on Peace Rose

  • Posted by seil z6b MI (My Page) on
    Fri, Feb 17, 12 at 14:19

I agree with Kim, you need to mix in some regular potting soil with that manure for a better texture and drainage. It doesn't have to be any kind of special or expensive soil. Just a good light weight one will do. I buy what ever is on sale or cheapest. Which is usually the Stay-Green at Lowes. And I wouldn't fertilize either. That manure is pretty strong stuff and adding fertilizer could burn the roots.

If you have trays on the pots, take them off and try and put the pots up on pot feet or trolleys to help with drainage. Get a moisture testing meter so you can test the soil deeper in the pot. You can't always go by how dry the surface looks.

You don't say what the other two varieties are that you bought but I think 7 gallon pots are going to be too small. You need at least 15 gallon pots, and 25 gallon would be best, for hybrid teas like Peace. You can probably leave them in the smaller pots for a while but will eventually have to go much bigger if you want them to thrive.


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RE: Yellow leaves on Peace Rose

Neurotic, trollies and pot feet are wonderful, but if they're not at hand or you don't want to have to go buy them, a couple of pieces of bricks (or even whole ones), or some ceramic tiles, even stones which are about the same thickness so the pots are sort of level, will suffice. The goal is just to lift them off the surface they sit on so air can circulate and water drain out of them. Nothing elegant or expensive required, just something which permits you elevate the bottoms and have the pots fairly level. You could even use sticks cut or broken so they're just a bit wider than the pots to make it easier to rest the pots on them when you lay the sticks on the surface you grow the pots on will work. Good luck! Kim


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RE: Yellow leaves on Peace Rose

The other two varieties are Mister Lincoln and climbing Golden Showers. The pots are just black plastic nursery pots I was using as a temporary place to start them out since I am moving next month. The drainage holes are near the sides instead of the bottom and no trays are being used. They will be put in the ground as soon as they are established enough to handle the transplant whenever that may be. Should I wait until the Fall to do this?

Thanks again for all the suggestions


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RE: Yellow leaves on Peace Rose

As long as the soil balls appear solid enough to permit them to be slid out and into their holes, waiting until fall isn't absolutely necessary. More than half is dependent upon your ability to transplant them without breaking up the soil balls. The remaining parts would be your time, energy, condition of planting sites to being properly worked, whether it's too hot for YOU to accomplish it, etc. I've successfully planted canned roses and many other types of plants year round here in the Los Angeles area as long as it wasn't too wet/hot/cold for ME and their root balls would easily slide out of the nursery cans without breaking up. That was one of the fears I had about what you planted them in. I am concerned it may not be appropriate to allow the roots to bind it all together into a solid unit and may fall apart when you attempt to plant them. I pray that isn't the case. If it appears to be, then instead of sliding the root balls out, you'll probably be more successful cutting off the bottoms (a REAL pain with some of the older, thicker can types), then sliding the whole plant through the can (as long as it fits!) and into the hole. If you're familiar with the method, it's what is suggested for plants with more succulent root systems, like bougainvillea, where any disturbance of the roots is a greater cause for concern.

You may, as long as they appear to be growing well in that soil, leave them to continue developing their root systems until fall. Perhaps by then, they may have knit the soil ball into a strong enough unit to make planting easier and safer. It's pretty much a wait and see situation. As long as it's probable you can move the soil ball in one piece without it falling apart, it's safe to plant. Good luck! Kim


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RE: Yellow leaves on Peace Rose

  • Posted by seil z6b MI (My Page) on
    Mon, Feb 20, 12 at 9:04

Good thoughts, Kim. I've found in transplanting any rose the less you disturb the root ball in the transfer the better the rose does. Even if you have to cut the bottom off and slit the pot sides try to keep that ball intact.

As long as those small pots are just temporary they should be fine. You can transplant them any time when your bed is ready but if it's the height of your hottest part of the summer I'd either wait for it to cool down some or provide some kind of shade for them in the beginning. Even just a lawn chair placed over them to give shade during the hottest part of the day will work. You just don't want them to dry out and bake before they have a chance to set some roots out into the new spot to find water. And watering will be key in the beginning. Keep the soil moist at all times but not soggy either. It's kind of a fine line. And if it's very hot don't be afraid to hose the whole plant off to cool it down. They do absorb some water through the leaves too.


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