|
| So, to make my garden easier to care for with age and arthritis, I am planing to make my ornamental garden all or nearly all raised beds. The beds will be 2' tall and from 3-4' to 5'6 (Largest stock tank)" across. My questions are two:
1. Is 24" enough root run for most rose bushes?
The workmen will be coming this week to lay my new stone center path and front terrace. I have climbers planted down the edges of the center path climbing on copper pipe arches. The workmen may need to dig the roses out to lay the path but I think they can probably leave them in place. What would you do? Put them in raised beds to make them easier to care for, or leave them in the ground as undisturbed as possible? The climbers are a 4th of July who has never lived up to its reputation, a GLORIOUS Night Owl that I really don't want to risk damaging, 2 Graham Thomas that were badly damaged by freezing last year and are recovering but not back to full size, A fairly new Royal Sunset, and Polka that is not as pretty as it used to be but probably can be reclaimed. I cut it back to about 4 feet last year to get new wood. u
|
Follow-Up Postings:
|
| Lizalily, by "stock tanks" are meaning you will be growing them all basically in "pots"? Or, will the raised beds be created with the stacked blocks and open to the soil beneath? I'm a bit concerned that if the stock tanks are basically pots, there will be sufficient drainage for them plants. If the raised beds were fully open to the original soil beneath them, that shouldn't be an issue. I would be concerned about how well climbers would perform in soil that is only two feet deep. There isn't a lot of room for them to spread out and 'forage' for water and nutrients, nor to anchor themselves against any sort of wind. Kim |
|
| Ah,good points. I had not thought about wind resistance. As for the drainage, we will be drilling a number of 3/4 " in the bottom. Here is a pic of the area last summer..I'm loosing the fight with buttercups and other invasives. I can't get my back for enough down to control but its still been lovely in summer. Now I am getting more interested in the design of things.
|
|
- Posted by hookoodooku 8a AL (My Page) on Sun, Feb 5, 12 at 0:04
| I would think it would be cheaper (and I know it would be better for the roses) if you simply built up a two foot wall with land scape timbers or railroad ties, line the inside with plastic (soil against wood = rotten wood in several years, so I would also put rock under the wall to separate the wall from the ground) and fill the bed with a truck load of soil. And 24" of soil depth is perfect for roses. |
|
| I'm not crazy about growing roses in pots, even very big ones, as a long-term situation. Potting soil has many benefits, but it is not intended for permanent use. I took a soils class a few years ago, and the instructor told us that we should not consider pots for longer than a year. Now you can get around that by re-potting and changing out the soil every year or two, but that is not a job for someone with arthritis. (Having said this, I do have several roses in pots myself, and I should have changed the soil this year but let it go for now.) I agree with Hookoodooku that building raised beds that sit directly on the soil, open at the bottom, filled with natural soil, would be far better for the roses. If you have problems with gophers in your area, line the bottom of the planting beds with gopher wire (basically smaller-opening version of chicken wire) or half inch hardware cloth. The roots, nutrients, microbes, and water will all pass through as they should, but the gophers will not. Rosefolly |
|
| Another issue about using created soil in pots is how it decomposes after a few seasons, causing the whole to sink or drop. Your 24" deep planting level may well fall to quite a bit less in a relatively short time. Creating the raised beds as suggested above, then filling them with native soil, amended as you choose, then firmly compacted to help alleviate the settling problems will probably severe you best over the longest period. Trying to lift large roses in the size of containers you're considering to replace the soil sounds like a major undertaking. I think you'd have a much worse time with the potting or planting soil decomposing and settling than many due to the significantly higher amounts of rain you get in your climate. I know the drainage with soil on soil contact will be tremendously better than three-quarter inch drain holes, no matter how many you eventually drill. Kim |
|
| I am doing on a smaller scale what you are doing. I do not want my husband or me on a ladder unless it is necessary. The Fourth of July was a large rose for us. It required a great deal of care up higher than we could reach without a ladder. Plus the thorns are just terrible. I have pulled out my climbers, and have replaced them with roses I can better care for. I had to give it a lot of thought -- especially thinking about who could attach them if we didn't. Nobody wants to work with roses for a meager amount of money. Pots can be easy, if you cut out the bottom. However, you can also get rid of all the grass, mulch well, and grow in the raised bed or raised area. Round Up is the only chemical I use, and it is my friend. Good luck, |
|
| 24" soil depth is plenty. I have some large roses growing in 16" soil depth. I agree with those above who recommend mineral soil over organic "soilless" media, which will shrink with time and become increasingly mucky and hard to drain. However, roses can be grown successfully in just about anything. |
|
| In my 2 foot deep raised rose bed I filled with top soil, not potting soil, and it has still settled, washed out some and generally shrunk down. So I have had to add some soil to it over the years. I just top dress it with a couple of inches of new soil and work it in some. I would not fill a raised bed of any kind with potting soil. For one thing it's way too expensive and for another it does break down much quicker than good top soil. I also would not close off the bottom. Just build it on the top of the existing soil so you'll still have good drainage and your roses can root down into it if they want to. I like the idea of stone of any type better than wood. No matter what you do wood will deteriorate in a matter of a few years. Stone will stay for years. If you use construction adhesive to glue the stones together it will last even longer! I don't know what your winters are like but here freeze and thaw can shift stone walls over time causing them to fall apart. We used the construction adhesive to glue our stones together and to rebars sunk deeper into the soil and that hasn't happened. If you have to dig up the climbers water them well the day before digging and take as big a root ball as possible and try to disturb the root ball as little as possible. Have some large pots or tubs handy (I've used 18 gl. totes) to put them in while you're working and keep them moist but not soggy. Since my raised bed is two tiers I kept my climbers on the bottom level at either end which is only raised about 6 inches. I've also carefully kept them bent and pegged to keep them more at a level I can work on without a ladder. I still end up having to climb. And Golden Celebration was put in the top tier and got WAY bigger than it was supposed to! Even with pegging it's up to the eaves and I end up on the ladder several times a season to dead head and prune. It's just the nature of climbers and unless you keep them cut as shrubs they're going to climb! |
|
| Seil, you NEED a long reach pruner. Mine are 59", made in Germany and no longer imported due to cost. (see blow) I seldom have to use the ladder, which is great because they are Kryptonite to my species! You can also sidestep the large pot idea. A friend had to dig her roses for plumbing issues and found she could pile them in a shadier spot and cover the root balls with soil until replanting. You could also cover or wrap them with burlap and keep them moist. Unless it's very hot, arid and windy, that should work fine for short periods and prevent you from needing to find and obtain large pots and extra soil. Kim |
Here is a link that might be useful: Cut and Hold long reach pruners
|
| OK, guess I should have explained that I think there is something wrong with my soil here. I have sent it off to be tested, but this might have been a commercial orchard many many years ago, in the days of toxic chemical use. Now the island has grown up to forests again and is covered in blackberry everywhere else! In the 12 years I have gardened here I have used loads and loads of compost, alfalfa, manures, mineral supplements, and osmocote on my garden beds with marginal results. It is a base of low nutrient glacial till with high clay content, acid soil that hates Dr Huey! My garden partner lives 3 miles away and grows beautiful roses, even on Dr Huey, but can't grow the dahlias I grow. I dug up my declining David Austin roses 2 years ago and relocated them in a cinderblock bed in my cutting garden, (3 blocks high, 4 1/2 ' wide and 30 feet long times 2. I put down a layer of landscape cloth beneath them to block the weeds in the soil and filled them with 3-way garden mix purchased soil from a local nursery (Equal parts loam, manure and sand, well mixed, topped with compost.) The roses are recovering from their decline and looking excellent as well as putting out blooms most of the winter. This is why I am going for the ornamental raised beds in my front garden. The new raised beds will be similar except I will use colored building stone in a soft brown or buff. I intend to make the garden a mix of the modern shiny metal tanks and stone...very west coast! Very non traditional! Exciting! With your advice, I think I may plan the stone beds to hold the roses, where they will be placed over landscape fabric again (Yeh, I am quite familiar with the hazards of landscape fabric but this will be a permanent set up, and by extending the edges of the fabric and covering with mulch will help keep the danged buttercups from wedging under the edge of the stone where I can't get them out. I've literally spent weeks in hand splints and have permanent damage from buttercup control! (NOTHING but plastic stops them and they grow up to 4' tall...amazing! Our temps ranges from a rare minus temp on a few winters a decade, to a one time high of 104 during freak summer weather. It really seldom goes over 90 or under 20 degrees and the roses are still occasinally blooming in my garden this winter, even after a foot of snow and an ice storm 2 weeks ago. From this discussion I am thinking I will leave my climbers in the ground, and put my regular roses mostly in the stone beds, with perhaps some mini's or mini-floras around the edges of the stock tanks. Plenty of other things to fill in with for height. But I do want to get the roses up where there is better air movement too. |
Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum. If you are a member, please log in. If you aren't yet a member, join now!
Return to the Roses Forum
Instructions
- You must be a registered member and logged in to post messages on our forums.
- Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review the contents and make changes.
- After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
- It is illegal to post copyrighted material without the owner's consent.
- HTML codes are allowed in the message field only.
- No advertising is allowed in any of the forums.
- If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
- If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.