I love Rose Tone, Plant Tone, and all the Tones. They aren't cheap, but you can buy Plant Tone in 40 pound bags, no postage, on Amazon, and it's fairly economical that way. The tones are hard to get around here, anyway, and only available in small bags. I think Plant Tone works as well as Rose Tone. There doesn't seem to be much difference between the two except for price. Good luck with your "new roses". It sounds like your off to a great start. Diane

What kind of mulch is on the bed now? Is it too deep, or might be too deep if new mulch is applied on top of it? If it's like a compost material, finer grained organic, there really isn't any need to remove the old mulch before adding more, unless it is something like wood chips or bark nuggets where adding a new layer would make it too deep around the plants. Once you've buried the spores, they break down like everything else and become part of the "top soil". Kim

Currently there are wood chips in there, so adding anything over them would surely smother the roses.

Still wondering if using the compost adds enough organic matter so as not to need fertilizer (perhaps starting next year at least). Or do I absolutely need fertilizer as well?

When do you apply the plant tone and do you apply it to your other garden plants at the same time?

One thing you have to remember is that compostable material does not break down unless it is kept moderately wet and that is a problem here in SoCal. Back east I used composted wood chips (which means that they were at least half way on their way to becoming dirt) and top dressed with attractive chips or pine bark and over time it all became pure black organic dirt two feet deep. I mulched every year so the raised beds became quite high with a bowl in the center for the rose but the graft well buried. I think the results of this method speak for themselves and I would like to do the same here but there is just not enough moisture to get the level of breakdown you would like but you do it none-the-less because it is the best way to preserve moisture in the soil. And as for smothering roses, that's nothing to worry about. Over time the graft will get deeper and deeper. I've had them over a foot down in older roses and what that means is that the root system is way down and will never dry out.

I produce my own horse manure compost for my gardens and use it as mulch. I dress with about 2-3 inches and in my climate I need to add the same again another time or two during the growing season. (I get 50" a rain a year.)

I've been doing this for 3 years at a new house/new garden and the perennials do really well with only this. I am beginning to suspect the roses could benefit from more and plan to experiment with adding fertilizer this year.

I do soil test and know that my garden soils are already high in P and are more that adequate in K, so my thinking right now is that I'll only add N. Since I know I'm already adding some P with the compost to soil that is already high in P I want to be cautious about adding even more P with a balanced fertilizer that would include it.

All that to say I don't know the answer to your question, but 3 years into the process this is where I am. Hope this helps...

I'm sure if the graft gets covered over time it's no big deal, but I don't think that smothering them from the get go is such a good idea. In fact, I had the landscaping people move one rose, and they buried it too deep-it suffered right up to the day that I finally took it out, and when I did remove it I saw it was rotting at the root crown.

subk3--I wish I had horses to harvest manure from! But alas, I am in the suburbs and have a small property. Well, not tiny but definitely too small for horses!

Anyone else have any input on the Tone products or on Sea Tea. Also, how often do you all fertilize?

I have had roses a little less than 2 years now. Started with 6 and am up to 30+ now. They are all doing beautifully. My first bed was mulched with a reddish mulch that I got from Lowes. After being on this forum for a while and reading more about this type mulch, I removed it all and replaced it with a good quality compost from one of our good nurseries. I now apply a 'thin' new layer about twice a year. (This really discourages weeds.) But after establishing my second bed, I decided to try fertilizing. I use Dr. Earth rose fert and make a tea with it. The instructions are on the back. This is easy to make and even easier to apply. I also started foliar spraying with either fish emulsion and seaweed or just seaweed. Making the fert tea takes 5 minutes with an overnight sit and applying it to the roses (after they have been watered) takes about 20 minutes once a month.

I use a 2 or 3 gallon foliar sprayer by Chapin which was not expensive online. Works great and I spend about an hour mixing and spraying about every other month.

I am in northern California and my roses are already looking like they are ready for a spring flush. Many new leaves and buds.

I am definitely a novice but the lovely people on this forum are very knowledgeable and helpful.

I spend very little time fertilizing, composting and foliar spraying. But what I have learned on this forum has made my roses look wonderful. I have HTs and David Austins.

This is info from a beginner passed on from what I've learned on this forum.

Hope this helps and have a GREAT spring,

andreark

Thanks andreark! I'm going back and forth between compost and gorilla hair so I really appreciate your feedback. I'm in NorCal as well! Maybe we are neighbors :) I have many roses but most are the same variety, used as a sort of hedge between the patio and yard. I'm thinking to use the gorilla hair under those and I also plan to add more varieties mixed in the landscaping, and I'm thinking compost for those .

Dandy,

Sorry, I don't know how to link, but this is a copy of a post on this forum about 'gorilla hair'.

Posted by jeff_zephyr Sunset 7 CA (My Page) on Wed, May 5, 10 at 12:17

I decided to try gorilla hair mulch around my roses last year. It was highly recommended by the garden center. After a year of observation, I am really disappointed.
The biggest problem is that this mulch forms a waterproof barrier. Water gets trapped in the gorilla hair instead of percolating into the ground. This is a big problem for a dry climate like mine. Numerous times after it rained, I would lift the gorilla hair mulch only to see how dry the earth underneath was.

Weed actually grows on the gorilla hair! Weeding was actually challenging this year, because the unwanted grass and weeds actually root into the gorilla hair. As a result, I ended up throwing away quite a bit of mulch along with the weed.

Last, in our windy and dry environment, the gorilla hair actually gets blown away. I have to buy more mulch to replace the sections that disappeared.

Conclusion: I'll never buy this product again because it is a waste of money and time.

Jeff

BACK TO ANDREARK AGAIN:

I don't mind work, but I don't want to do what I don't have to do. The compost I use is from Navlet's. As I said before, it discourages weeds and 'MELTS' , eventually, into the soil. I do more 'talking to my babies' than working on them. This will be the first spring flush that I've really paid attention to. Lady Emma and Falstaff have already bloomed several times. And Molineux will open any moment, , , maybe tomorrow.

I do sourdough baking, and I make cheeses, but this is the most exciting thing I do.

Have a great spring!!

andreark (SFO East Bay - Delta area)

Hmm. Good to know about the gorilla hair! I thought that was the shredded bark that other people were saying they use. My only hesitation with compost is that it looks very bare at the base of the roses. Maybe I can plant something small to cover the base. I mulch just looks more decorative I guess.

Dandy,

Bare is easier to get to for fertilizing. And If your roses are healthy and have good foliage, the compost looks fine. ALSO, not weeding is a PLUS! My beds look good. (Not just my opinion, but friends as well.)

Once again, have a great spring,

andreark

So you do find that the compost alone doesn't provide enough food to the roses and that fertilizer is still needed?

Compost benefits the soil and it's structure. I don't believe that it has all the nutrients that roses require. As I said before, I don't like useless work. I wouldn't' use the fertilizer if it wasn't necessary. However, using fertilizer once a month and a foliar spray in between takes very little money and/or labor.

I think asking Kim (Roseseek) more technical questions would be a good idea. He is a great resource on this forum.

I just spent the morning with my babies, , , no work involved, and it's a very uplifting thing to do. Even the little work I do on my roses is very much worthwhile to me.
You DO have to be a rose 'nut' I'm sure. But I love it.

Have a great weekend,

andreark