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| Thanks for helping me out, I live in Sevier County in East Tennessee,The Soil in my area is "Hard" and almost like a Clay. I am having problems with my roses surviving. I think the problems are related to the soil and or fertilizing / feeding, when I first plant a new Rose bush, 1.) How deep/ large should I make the hole? 2.) Given the type of soil I have , should I mix some Moisture Control Miracle Gro bag soil mix with what I removed from the hole before putting soil back around new planting? 3.) Should I use a specific type of fertilizer/feed? I have previously bought and used the small cardboard boxes of "Rose food" but think the results were not apparent. I very Much appreciate any advice!! Ed |
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| Ed, I live in York S.C where we have heavy clay soil. To plant a rose I dig a hole 2 1/2 feet deep and 2 1/2 feet wide. When removing the soil I keep the top 1/3 and discard the rest. Then, when refilling the hole I put a whole bag of cow manure at the bottom of the hole. Make sure its aged cow manure like Black Kow, and only at the bottom of the hole never mix it in. Then I mix the following and dump it in: 1 part soil from the hole, 1 part top soil, (just plain old top soil, no fertilizer or moisture control), and 1 part peat moss. I usually add a few handfulls of bone meal mixed in with the soil. No fertilizer at time of planting. About 6 weeks after planting and for the first year only 1/2 dose liquid fertilizer, or whole dose fish fertilizer. Liquid only first year. All of my roses have loved this planting, and the cow manure at the bottom of the hole really makes your rose take off during the second year! |
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| Mzstich's advice is good. I have a couple of questions for you though. What kind of roses are you buying? Are they the bagged or boxed ones? Are you taking off ALL of the packaging around the roots and spreading them out in the hole? If they are potted and you're transplanting the whole root ball intact is the potting soil any good? All of these things could be causing them not to thrive. As a rule roses are pretty tough to kill. |
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- Posted by fig_insanity 7a, East TN (My Page) on Mon, Mar 18, 13 at 14:33
| Ed, the above advice is good to an extent, but one word of caution: if the area you are planting is level, or at the bottom of a slope, ANY hole you dig from clay soil and add amendments to will become a sump area and your roses will drown (imagine digging a well...that's what you'd be doing). I garden on clay here in Loudon Co, not that far from you, and I speak from experience. I only plant on my hillside, and STILL raise my rose beds above grade by several inches. If your garden doesn't drain well, your only solution is to raise the area you grow roses, or you'll just be drowning them. John |
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- Posted by ken-n.ga.mts 7a/7b (My Page) on Mon, Mar 18, 13 at 14:40
| I live in N.E GA where we have hard, red GA clay. I do close to what mzstitch does. Hole same size. Black Kow and Miracle Grow Garden Soil. NOT potting soil. Garden soil. I mix 1/2 bag Black Kow, about the same amount garden soil, three big hands full of oak leafs and two shovels full of ground up soil that came out of the hole. Mix it all together real good. Water the new soil down good (not soggy wet). Let it set for about 1/2 hr. Dump in garden soil to plant your new rose adding about 1 shovel full of ground up clay and mix together and water a little bit. I then spread about a hand full of Milorganite into the planting hole and plant my rose right on top of everything. Finish filling the hole around you're new rose with the garden soil and water. Mulch with a loose mulch. Pine needles or pine bark. Use 1/2 strength liquid and fish for the first growing season every 3 weeks (April through Sept,). Between the Black Kow & milorganite you're rose's will build a good root system. Just my way of doing things. Works great for me. |
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| HI Ed, I'm in Knox County and I've learned the hard way that rootstock plays a large part in our soil and rose survival rates. Most roses that you buy bagged (from Lowes, HD) are on Dr. Huey which doesnt like our heavy clay. I also assumed since our soil is clay, that it would have an alkaline pH...which it doesnt. In my experience, you're better off buying ownroot roses that like acidic soil, or buying roses grafted onto multiflora rootstock. If you do use Dr Huey, you'll need to almost fully ammend your soil in order for your roses to thrive unfortunately. Tammy |
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| Judging from your repeat post, the problem is likely too much winter protection which kept the plants continuously wet. In zones 6b/7, grafted roses should be planted with the graft just below grade. This will keep the plant from freezing out with no further protection needed. Also, don't prune in fall, prune in spring. After a very cold, subzero winter, you will need to prune severely in spring, but the plants will come back from that. In an average winter here in Asheville, I have no cane damage to speak of. The other possible issue is what fig_insanity said above. If you dig a hole in clay and fill it with light soil, you may create a severe drainage problem. Better to amend the whole planting area evenly by digging in organic matter to a depth of 12 inches. Clay soil is fine for roses. Just don't work it or step on it when it is wet, and keep the surface of the planting area raised slightly above the surround. I have been growing roses in the Upper South for 37 years. |
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| Judging from your repeat post, the problem is likely too much winter protection which kept the plants continuously wet. In zones 6b/7, grafted roses should be planted with the graft just below grade. This will keep the plant from freezing out with no further protection needed. Also, don't prune in fall, prune in spring. After a very cold, subzero winter, you will need to prune severely in spring, but the plants will come back from that. In an average winter here in Asheville, I have no cane damage to speak of. The other possible issue is what fig_insanity said above. If you dig a hole in clay and fill it with light soil, you may create a severe drainage problem. Better to amend the whole planting area evenly by digging in organic matter to a depth of 12 inches. Clay soil is fine for roses. Just don't work it or step on it when it is wet, and keep the surface of the planting area raised slightly above the surround. I have been growing roses in the Upper South for 37 years. |
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- Posted by edspangler none (espangler5@charter.net) on Wed, Mar 20, 13 at 13:10
| thanks mzstitch, will use your advice, what can I do for the 4 estaoblished rose bushes? One Yellow 3 Red?? What should I feed them during Spring /Summer??? By the way, my brother in law lives in York!! Also have friends in Kings Mountain and Rock Hill, email me and I will tell you their names, you may know them. Thanks Ed |
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| I agree that there should be nothing wrong with red clay and roses. Dr. Huey simply loves it. As others have said, though, hole preparation is important. Even though I'm in Atlanta, I bury every bud union at least a couple of inches below the surface. Then I mulch, mulch, mulch - shredded pine bark works best for me. It breaks down in about a third to a half-season, but it retains shape well and doesn't wash away easily. I mound up the center quite a bit (there's no issue with shredded pine mulch against the canes) and then form a large drip ring around the center - like a 3-foot donut. BTW, for newly planted bare roots - you should cover the canes completely with a center mound of mulch. Let the canes and shoots find their way out. That protects the bush until the roots gain some footing. No one's said it yet, but all the talk about "feeding" may be a bit much. Use organics and lay off the hard fertilizer until you know you have an established bush - and even then use it sparingly. I can't say enough about Magic Mills Mix from Beaty fertilizer (you can get it from Rosemania, too). The stuff is great. I use a cup mixed with about 30% peat moss in the red clay to replace the soil in the hole. That's after removing all the rocks, by the way. Ensuring that the hole is deep rather than wide seems to work best in my clay. |
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