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| Hi Everyone. I am a new member to this forum.I live in Australia and posted this message on the Oz forum a month ago, with no reply. I am seriously obsessed with roses and have enjoyed reading all the different posts on Gardenweb over the last few months. Finally decided to be a part of it. I am planning to order the following roses this year and would appreciate some feedback on the same.
Delbards: France Libre Nahema Celine Delbard Paul Cezanne Maurice Utrillo Chartruse de Parme Soeur Emmanuel Others:
I live in Melbourne, Australia. The summers here are hot and dry and the winters are mild and not very freezing. I would love to know if anyone has grown any of these and their experiences with them. Any pictures would be appreciated too! Thanks, Sanju |
Follow-Up Postings:
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| Welcome to Garden Web Sanju. I have ordered Molineux and Abraham Darby as well. So I can not give you any info about them. I planted Laguna last year: It grew 5-6 feet in one season; some flowers but not many (first year so expected), but the sizes and shapes are pretty good; wintering really well almost close to being evergreen (zone 6b and protected location); the only negative for me is the color: too strong and garish for my teste. But I will give it couple more years before I declare final word on it. For pictures: Antique Roses forum at the Gallery you can find many pictures. |
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| Welcome to the forum, Sanju. It's great to have someone join who is as passionate about roses as many of us are. I've only grown two of your roses, Abraham Darby and Ebb Tide, neither with very great success. Ebb Tide didn't like my very hot summer and is no longer with me. Abraham Darby was gorgeous in its first year and then developed long, skinny canes where the flowers hung down and also did not repeat well for me. I've found to my great delight that what does well for me are the antique roses such as the tea roses, chinas, Bourbons and also some of the English Austin roses. I never spray, just water, mulch and fertilize with alfalfa and these roses perform beautifully, and get bigger and have more blooms every year. You might also be interested in visiting the Antique Rose Forum, where these roses are frequently discussed and you can often see beautiful photographs. If you only like modern roses then of course the older ones won't be of interest to you, but they really are best suited to your climate, which is actually fairly similar to mine. At any rate, I hope you'll enjoy posting here and learning more about your favorite flower. The people here are very friendly and helpful, and I've learned a lot in the two years I've been a member. And, it's been so much fun! Ingrid |
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| Welcome to the forum. I have grown Abe Darby, also in hot conditions. It needs to be kept pruned and well watered. It tends to have blooms bigger than the stems can support--the only flaw in an otherwise excellent rose--hence the need for adequate water. If water availability is an issue in your area, you would want to keep it well mulched and irrigate during your winter in low rainfall years. You seem to be planting at the best time for your climate. Falstaff has perfect three inch bloooms throughout the summer and an ungainly bush. Don't plant it in front of short plants. Like other Austens, it has a fairly high water requirement--again, winter rains or supplemental irrigation are critical for good summer bloom. Brass Band fades badly in hot sun. Afternoon shade would be best for this one, allowing you to enjoy the spectacular colors. |
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- Posted by holleygarden 8/East Texas (My Page) on Mon, Mar 1, 10 at 15:22
| Welcome! I have Ebb Tide and love it. Beautiful form, the quality I love the most is its heavenly scent. I have this year purchased Monsier Tillier and Abraham Darby, so like you, I'm hoping they will be good roses. :) |
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| Molineux is the only one on your list that I grow, and I love it. While perhaps not the most spectacular Austin blooms, they are still darned good! And it repeats at a much quicker rate than any of my other Austins. Its color will vary, depending on the weather: from yellow/gold/light apricot blend to a cream/yellow blend or a cream/nearly pink apricot blend. I enjoy watching its changing color combinations. One possibility you might consider: plant 3 Molineux fairly close together (as David Austin recommends on his website). Makes for a fuller, lusher looking shrub, and of course triples the fast-repeating blooms. By itself, Molineux (here in Zone 6--a bit colder than your region, I suspect) is about 3.5-4 ft tall and maybe 2.5 ft wide. It is fairly good on disease-resistance. I enjoy my 3-in-1 Molineux very, very much. Kate |
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| Thanks everyone for your welcome. I couldnt't believe my eyes to see 5 replies overnight!! I got so excited that my DH started laughing and said he's got 3 kids instead of two(we actually have 2). Its great to belong to this forum. Feels like I know you guys already since I've been reading all the posts for the last few months. Now then, to business. After all your excellent advice, I think I will strike Falstaff off my list and perhaps Abe Darby as well (Its a pity because I love the shape of those blooms). I think I will take Ingrid's advice and check out some tea roses. I might keep Ebb Tide in a pot and well watered and protected. I do have an afternoon shade spot for Brass Band, so I will keep that on my list. And Kate, I will plant three Molineuxs together, what a fantastic idea (boy is DH going to be surprised when he sees the bill!!). I might still try Laguna, I like most colours, even the bright ones. Ingrid, which teas or Austins do you recommend for my area?. Thanks in advance. |
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| Welcome Sanju, I don't know about Delbards, but the others on your list I have almost all of and you've chosen well. 'Brass Band' is a favorite and 'Molineux' is one of the best performing Austins. 'Brass Band': Enjoy and don't be a stranger to this forum. Lots of nice and knowledgeable people, rose-lovers all. |
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| Wow, hoovb, your photo of Brass Band was breathtaking. I wasn't surprised as that is the picture that convinced me that I had to have this rose. Is that just one plant there? I have bought 85 roses in the last 3 years but not one has ever bloomed like that at once. Maybe they just haven't settled down yet with the drought we've had and very strict water restrictions. Nastarana, after thinking over what you said, I was thinking that maybe I should plant Falstaff at the back with Pretty Jessica in front of it to hide the ungainly shape of it? Ingrid, I checked out ARE, they have a beautiful collection, but unfortunately most of those roses aren't available here in Aus. After checking out a local website, I have come up with this list of ogrs. Bourbons: Chinas: Teas: Hybrid Perpetuals: Portlands: Have any of you grown these? Would love to know your experiences. Thank you, Sanju |
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| I don't recall the contributor's name, but either at this forum, or the Antique Roses Forum, I know there's at least one other contributor from Oz. (Unfortunately I forget which part of the continent that contributor hails from!) |
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| Unless you get a decent period of winter chill I would skip 'Louise Odier'--the similar 'Baronne Prevost' is much better in mild winters. 'Comte de Chambord', 'Irene Watts' and SDLM, on the other hand, are gems, must-haves, as are any Teas in your climate. 'Paul Neyron' while beautiful, had poor disease resistance here. Can you get 'Yolande d'Aragon'? Yes that is one plant of 'Brass Band'. Five years of established growth, plus a lot of rain and compost. The first couple of years it was a pretty sad little plant. They do get better and better. |
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| Thanks hoovb for your help. It is most appreciated. I have decided to add to the list Comte de Chambord, Irene Watts, SDLM and Rosette delizy and Abraham Darby gets taken off. Thanks a lot, I am really excited about ordering soon. And yes, the nursery does have Yolande d'Aragon. So I might as well add that too!! Cheers, Sanju |
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| You've selected some terrific roses! (At any rate, some that have performed very well in my garden). Three of the Delbards you've chosen are among the most fragrant roses I grow -- 'Chartreuse de Parme', 'Nahema', and 'Souer Emmanuelle'. Another great on one your list (and also VERY fragrant) is 'Comte de Chambord', my favorite Portland. I'm very glad you decided to added 'Souvenir de la Malmaison'. If that one does well for you, consider adding her white sport, 'Kronprinzessin Viktoria'. There is MUCH confusion surrounding the China 'Irene Watts'. Many people believe that rose is either extinct or "lost". The rose that has been in commerce as 'Irene Watts' in some places, is actually the beautiful 'Pink Gruss an Aachen', an early Floribunda (some classify it as a Hybrid Tea). It would be interesting to know how rose folk in Australia approach the issue. |
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| Jaxondel, it is great to know that you have successfully grown some of the fragrant Delbards on my list. I bought my first Delbard last year, it is a stripey one called Alfred Sisley and it bloomed non-stop for me in its first year. I was so impressed that I decided to order a whole lot of them this year (hopefully they will be similar). I will definitely note down SDLM's sport for next year if this one does well here. I have no idea if the Irene Watts they sell here is Pink Gruss, but if you're interested I can paste a link below. I haven't got much knowledge of antique roses, I'm just getting into it now thanks to all of you Gardenweb friends. Well, here's the link below: http://www.mistydowns.com.au/display.php?plant=1885 Cheers, Sanju |
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- Posted by the_bustopher Kansas City, MO (My Page) on Tue, Mar 2, 10 at 16:12
| Here are a couple of pics. The first is Arthur de Sansal. It is my third plant. I have had problems getting it through our fickle late winter and early spring weather patterns.
Comte de Chambord does quite well for the most part. It is quite cane hardy, but it is VERY prone to blackspot here in my garden.
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| Thanks, Bustopher. Your pics are beautiful. I am tempted to add Arthur de Sansal to my list as well. Hopefully it will grow well here in our hot summers. It is such a lovely crimson-purple colour. Comte de Chambord looks lovely too. I dont have much probs will blackspot until later in the season (right now here). I only spray around Sept/Oct for aphids and then spray once or twice around Feb/March for blackspot. I haven't had any roses die here as the weather is quite mild. But I've noticed that my roses in pots do much better than the ones in the ground. My soil seems to be almost completely sandy and dries out within a few hours of watering. I suppose I need to amend it with compost and manure this year before planting my new ones out. Thanks everyone, this is a really great forum. Such a great help to someone not very experienced like me. Sanju |
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| Sanju, I also have sandy soil (decomposed granite, actually, and amending the soil and then mulching with leaves on top helps a lot. The lower leaves rot when you water or it rains and enrich the soil even more. It you can get your hands on alfala meal or alfalfa pellets, it's a wonderful organic fertilizer for roses. I also have lot of aphids here but either pinch them off with my fingers or spray them with water. I don't use toxic products at all, but then I don't have blackspot either. The most sensible thing in terms of the environment would simply be to eliminate the roses that have blackspot. I've had to get rid of quite a few roses, not because of blackspot, but because they couldn't stand the summer heat. Monsieur Tillier unfortunately was one of them. Can you obtain Duchesse de Brabant which I think in your area is called Countesss Labarthe? It's a glorious tea rose. So is it sport, Mme. Joseph Schwartz. If you can tell me what tea roses are available to you there I might be able to steer you toward some good ones since I have quite a number. For Austins, I've had very good success with Bishop's Castle (beautiful and fragrant rose), Carding Mill, Wife of Bath, Cottage Rose, Glamis Castle and Sister Elizabeth. Other roses that looked great in a public garden nearby in broiling summer heat are Yves Piaget, Charles Darwin, Miss Alice, Sophy's Rose, Mary Magdalene, Lillian Austin, Anne Boleyn and The Ingenious Mr. Fairchild. Yves Piaget is a Romantica rose with large, fragrant blooms that I love. I hope that at least some of these roses will be available in Australia. One of my favorite tea roses, by the way, is Le Vesuve, which is great in the heat and blooms like crazy. Ingrid |
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| Wow, bustopher! Arthur de Sansal is a new rose for me, and I love purple roses! Thank you! (It may not live all that well in my humid East Coast environment, but nonetheless!) By the way, are you familiar with the Gallica/Hybrid China Cardinal de Richelieu? I suspect it might manage your late winter a bit better. |
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- Posted by the_bustopher Kansas City, MO (My Page) on Thu, Mar 4, 10 at 0:27
| I actually have Cardinal de Richelieu. It is growing in my back yard along a fence. It is a beautiful dark purple. I like that rose also; it is special. The other ones that I have that approach the Cardinal in color are The Prince, Ebb Tide, Midnight Blue, and The 777 Rose. Others that are more on the red side are Cardinal Hume and Souvenir du Dr. Jamain. Here is a past picture of the Cardinal.
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| Bus, that rose is magnificent |
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| Hi Sanju! Like you I'm new to this forum. I'm too very fond of Roses and thus joined here to find more about this exotic flower. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Saesha Flowers
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| Despite our hot/dry summer and despite our mild winters, Molineux does well here but suffers from Black Spot by the end of the season. Bustopher, your photo reminds me of Purple Heart! |
Here is a link that might be useful: Purple Heart Rose Pic From Week's Roses
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| Ingrid, thanks for all the help. I did call up and make my order today but since the delivery wont happen until June/July (our winter), I think I can change it a little bit. I will take Monsieur Tillier off. I was mainly interested because it seems a bit darker thank most of the other light pinks, creams and whites. I was very disappointed to find that Le Vesuve is not available at the nursery where I'm ordering these ogrs. I will have to look up some others as well. Of the teas available here, these appealed to me: Have you tried any of these, and how do they do out there? I have not checked out any of the Austins on your list, my comp was down all day and I'm using my husbands laptop at night now (he's been wondering why I'm so eager to go on the computer the last 2 days!). Just one more question. Would Charles de Mills grow well here? And could I grow it in a large container since I don't have enough space for a once-blooomer in the ground but have fallen in love with this rose after seeing Celeste's beautiful pics of it. I hope this is not too much trouble, but it is just so great to chat about roses with people who are as passionate about them as us. Most people here think I'm crazy, though my husband is quite indulgent and my kids (7 and 5) know heaps of my roses names. Bustopher your photo of Cardinal de Richlieu is stunning. Is this one also a once bloomer? I have ordered Prospero from the nursery, do you think it is somewhat similar? Luis, it is good to know that Molineux grows well for you in a similar climate to ours. I have already ordered 3 today and can't wait!! |
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- Posted by the_bustopher Kansas City, MO (My Page) on Thu, Mar 4, 10 at 10:12
| The Cardinal is a once-blooming gallica like Charles de Mills. These old European roses require a cold period to trigger flowering. If you do not get at least a month of cold weather, they will not flower reliably or even live very long. Luis, the picture of Purple Heart does have a similarity to the Cardinal and also Ebb Tide, but that is where the similarity ends. I have Purple Heart, but it is on my list to probably be gotten rid of because it just does not do well for me. I have other lavender/purples that do much better. Zyperisis, I am glad you like the picture. If I can keep the blackspot off this rose it does reasonably well. |
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| Sanju, I've found that as a whole purple roses don't fare well in a climate with hot summers. They won't bloom much and the bushes for me just seem to deteriorate. I also love Charles de Mills but there is no hope of it surviving for me or most probably you. The Austin William Shakespeare 2000 is considered quite reliable and is beautiful. Archiduc Joseph is the same rose that is sold as Monsieur Tillier here. Of your list I only have Duchesse de Brabant and Rosette Delizy. Be aware that Gloire de Dijon has naked, bare legs although it's said to be a beautiful rose. I would choose Reve d'Or instead which has more pliable canes, blooms a lot and is really good in the heat. Baronne Henriette de Snoy looks great in all the pictures I've seen of it. Maman Cochet is a very famous tea rose and universally loved. I haven't grown it because of the weak neck of the flower and to me it looks too much like a hybrid tea, but that's just a personal preference. If you're at all interested in China roses, Mutabilis is a big, spectacular bush that blooms constantly. I've had it in every garden I've owned. It's a truly unique-looking rose and very carefree. Ingrid |
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| Ingrid, thanks for your help. I think I will skip Gloire for this year. Replace Duchesse with MT. I do have William Shakespeare 2000. It does fairly well for me (this is its first year). It is still only about a foot and a half tall, but it blooms constantly. Unfortunately, due to shortage of water the blooms crisp in the hot sun. Possibly the autumn flush will be better (March-June). But guess what, La Vesuve is available. I was looking under Teas and it was actually listed under China roses! So I am ordering it for sure. Hopefully I dont end up with too many similar looking roses this season since they're all pink. Of the OGRS, I've got on my list: Rozette Delizy Comte de Chambord Irene Watts Duchesse de Brabant La Vesuve SDLM Arthur de Sansal (I couldn't resist after Bustopher's picture) And I've ordered I will buy Ebb Tide and Brass Band from a local nursery since they don't have it there. I've ordered the Delbards from another nursery. So I'm all set for this year! All I need to do now is amend the soil with lots of compost and manure and mulch with leaves in the spring. Cheers, Sanju |
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| sanju, I don't think you'll have a problem with the pinks looking too much alike since they all have different shades and their leaves and growth habits will all be different. I think you've picked a wonderful bunch. I love the purples and Arthur de Sansal is a gorgeous rose, but in some places it seems to be a martyr to mildew. I don't mention this to discourage you because in your dry climate that may not happen, but just to make you aware so you don't despair if it does happen to you. I had Ebb Tide and loved it but it didn't like my hot climate. There again you may have a different experience. I wish you the best of luck and much pleasure with your new roses. Ingrid |
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| Another vote for Delbard's wonderful and perfumed 'Chartreuse de Parme'. I am not sure that Cardinal de Richelieu or other gallicas would do well in a hot climate where they don't get enough winter chill. Ask around before you comit yourself to buy them. |
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| re Laguna: It is a gogeous climber with old fashioned petal packed very fragrant flowers and disease free foliage. I encourage you to get it. The yearly training around the tripod is a bit difficult due to its vicious thorns; other than that it is a gorgeous rose. |
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| Ingrid, thanks for all your help and valuable advice. I also added Mutabilis to the order and took off SDLM since the lady at the nursery said that it can be a bit of a problem in our area (no idea why). I have already got lots of compost and manure and alfalfa pellets. I will get the beds ready, though the plants wont arrive till June. Ceterum, thanks for the vote for Chartruse. I really loved the look of Laguna, and have heard only good things about it, but I've had to order from 3 different places already, and none of them have Laguna! So I might go over to this 4th place sometime later this year just to pick this up, as we cant just order one. I am a bit nervous about climbers as I've never had one and not sure how to train it. I do have Eden, but its just a month old and I've been told it can be grown like a shrub so I haven't bothered to tie it or anything. I know I have a lot to learn from you guys at Gardenweb. Thanks |
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- Posted by lagomorphmom z10Coastal&z8Mtn CA (My Page) on Sun, Mar 7, 10 at 21:50
| Sanju, you might want to check out this GW rosy thread regarding an Aussie book on teas. We in SoCalif look upon it as a local book since our climates are so similar. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Aussie tea book
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| Wow, can't wait to have this book in my possession.I wonder where I will find it. I'll have to check out the local book shops here. I am definitely getting this one asap. On the other hand, you guys are a mine of information. I have never had such great advice. I have been reading this thread over and over so I can follow everything and hopefully grow great roses like you guys seem to. Thanks everyone. Cheers Sanju |
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| I think they're offering at Amazon on line for a much cheaper price than most of us paid for it. Ingrid |
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| Thanks Ingrid, I will check it out later tonight. As I said, my comp is down and my DH is rushing to pack his lap top and go off to work. Its going to be a long day waiting for him to come back and then check it out. sanju |
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| I couldn't find the book on Amazon. Anyway, I haven't looked in the book shops yet, was busy with visitors yesterday, but since its an Aussie book, it should be available here. I've got another concern. When I first registered myself, the forum would not accept my post code for some reason. I assumed that it was because it was an Aussie one (3196) so just googled an American post code and typed it in and it accepted me. Now I'm horrified to see that my page (the link) mentions that I live in the United States and somehow I feel guilty, like I've been dishonest or something. I thought it was just a matter or registering and then I could let everyone know where I live. Is there a way I can change this on my page to Australia? Sorry to be such a pain with my endless questions. |
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| Sanju, you can change your information by going to the very bottom of any gardenweb page. There will be a gold/brown menu bar...one of the selections is "member pages". Click on that, which will take you to place where you can click on "my member page" or "my page"...something like that. This brings up a list of stuff: 1. See Your Member Page 2. Edit Your Personal Information, Page, and Preferences 3. List & Edit Your Journal Entries & etc. Click on the second one, "Edit Your Personal Information..." and you can change your location & so on. You might have to put the "australia" part in where ever it will fit--after your screen name or as part of your climate zone, for example. This forum software is pretty old, its been around since late 90's, so it's not all that flexible. I think when Spike first started the Gardenweb site he may have never imagined it would end up being world wide--that came later. Hope that helps. Don't worry about having the wrong country listed...you are not the only one from what I can tell...its that old-software-not-so-flexible problem. |
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| Thanks hoovb. You are so knowledgeable and so helpful, I do admire you immensely. All of you guys have been so helpful. I will do the needful now. Cheers, Sanju |
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