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The Best Of The Brownell Roses?

I've been researching some of the Brownell roses on the web. The ones I have found Canadian sources for that intrigue me are:

Dr. Brownell,

Helen Hayes,

Lily Pons,

V for Victory,

Maria Stern,

Orange Ruffles; and

Golden Arctic.

I have grown Break O' Day for many years and love the blooms though the plant is not very vigorous. Therfore, I am primarily concerned with your experience relative to vigour, rebloom and disease resistance.

Last year was a wet year here in Eastern Ontario and I did not spray at all. I had the worst blackspot season since I moved here. In addition, the Province of Ontario has passed legislation banning the use of most pesticides and herbicides for home gardeners. The need to grow healthy roses just became imperative.

I am planning to replace some of my blackspot disasters and would like to try some of the Brownell roses. Your thoughts, experience and suggestions with these roses will help me make my choices. Photos of course would also be most welcome. Thanks for your ideas and advice.

Cheers,

Rideau Rose Lad

Comments (18)

  • jim_w_ny
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I may get into huge trouble with NERoseman but maybe it's time to move on from Brownell roses. After all these roses were bred by two amateurs who happened to have a weekend house in Little Compton RI. Mainly because at the time few hybridizers paid any attention to hardiness.

    After some 60 or so years there have been hundreds maybe thousands of roses introduced. The survivors include many that are better than most maybe all Brownells.

    I only have Rhode Island Red an attractive red rose that is moderately vigorous with average rebloom. No notable fragrance. Supposed to be a climber but only manages to be a shrub.

    Brownell roses have survived partly because someone coined the word Sub-Zero that attracted attention. That name applies to lot's of other roses.

    I put my money on Kordes roses a several generation rose nursery that has put a lot of effort into breeding hardy roses. Roses with many other desirable traits, including roses with good disease resistance, vigor and look good!
    Then there are the Explorer roses and many, many other popular roses that turn out to be hardy.

    I also tried some other B's whose names I've forgotten. Charlotte B. I think but all dead now.

  • geo_7a
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The only Brownell roses I have are Break O'Day & Lafter.

    Lafter, here anyway, is very healthy, remontant and thorny.

    Break O'Day is not quite so.

  • barbarag_happy
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm with Jim. Look at the Griffith Bucks and Kordes. As far as specific roses, Golden Showers outperforms Elegance with many more blooms, Earth Song outdoes Curly Pink, and I'd take Winter Sunset over Lafter or Maria Stern any day. Kordes roses ((esp shrubs) are probably your best bet, with resistant roses in lots of bloom forms and colors-- about ? 15 years ago? they quit spraying their fields. This bold move resulted in Kordes having the healthiest of new introductions in every class. Bottom line, hardy or cane-hardy does not equal disease resistance & I think you'd be disappointed with the Brownells as far as BS goes..

  • rideauroselad OkanaganBC6a
    Original Author
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks Jim,

    There are a number of reasons that I want to try some of the Brownells, not the least of which is the early hybrid tea look of the blooms.

    I used to grow quite a few Kordes roses in a warmer climate. In fact two of the healthiest, most vigorous and floriferous roses I ever had, were Westerland and Lichtkonigan Lucia. Both of which I have tried to grow in Ontario and which are just not hardy enough to survive. I still have Ilse Krohn Superior, which I love, but she struggles here, and Morgengruss which I planted last spring on Anne Cecelia's recommendation, she is looking promising, from what little I can see poking out of the winter protection. There are some other newer Kordes roses I will also try when I have vacant spaces abandoned by other non-performers.

    As we all know, different roses perform differently in differnt climates. I know you have not had success with Austins, yet there are a select few that are as good as the Explorer roses for me here just south of Ottawa. Crocus rose, Lilian Austin, St. Swithun, Crown Princess Margareta and Redoute, all being quite winter hardy, healthy and
    floriferous for me.

    I also grow quite a few Buck roses which do well for me. Having said that, I now want to try some Brownells, which will be replacing several Austins, a Buck and two Romantica's that blackspot badly for me. Hardiness, health, vigour and rebloom are what I need in my harsh climate. I want to give Dr. Brownell's roses a try. While I know they will not be cane hardy, many are said to to be healthy and floriferous. We'll see.

    Thanks for the reply. Cheers,

    Rideau Rose Lad

  • celeste/NH
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Rideau Rose Lad....
    I have a large collection of Brownell roses including some of the rarer ones. I wanted to collect them because they seem to be a 'dying breed' and I'm a bit of a rose collector....I have Buck roses, Austins, Kordes, hundreds of old garden roses, floribundas, hybrid teas, shrub roses, species roses, rugosas, miniatures, scotch roses, even 'found' roses from cemeteries. I just love all roses!
    Therefore, even though most of my Brownells are no more hardy than my regular hybrid teas, I still enjoy them and will continue to try to obtain more of the hard-to-find ones. (Some people collect stamps; I collect roses!)

    It does misrepresent the hardiness of the Brownells (or lack thereof) when they are touted as 'Subzero' Roses...
    because they will suffer significant dieback just as regular hybrid teas do in zone 4 or 5. I am in zone 4 and the only ones who have above-average winterhardiness (although still not completely hardy by any means) are Lafter, Nearly Wild, and the climbers Golden Arctic, White Cap, R. I. Red, & Everblooming Pillar #73. I don't grow the Brownells because I mistakenly believe they are totally winter-hardy; I grow them because they are beautiful roses and because I enjoy having a wide collection of all types of roses. If you want to obtain some Brownells and realize that you will have to mound up soil around them each winter just like regular hybrid teas to get them through....then you will enjoy them. But if you want easy-care, no-fuss, zero-winter protection roses, these aren't for you. That being said, mine have always grown back vigorously each spring and delight me with armloads of blooms all summer. We get blackspot here in late summer, and if I don't spray, most of them will get spotty just like my other hybrid teas. The climbers are healthier; I haven't had any blackspot on those that I mentioned.

    Just recently I posted a bunch of pictures of them, but in case you missed it, here's some for you to ponder. BTW, I am always pushing my zone boundaries....I grow many, many roses that aren't 'supposed' to grow in zone 4. I like to take chances. If I can grow them here, you should be able to grow them there.....but like I said, they aren't truly winter-hardy so just keep that in mind. But they ARE lovely and I'm glad to have them in my garden.

    I hope this helps.....

    I don't have pics of all of them, but here's a good start:

    Celeste

    HELEN HAYES (NO THORNS ON THIS ONE!)

    {{gwi:236382}}

    CHARLOTTE BROWNELL

    {{gwi:236385}}

    LAFTER

    {{gwi:236386}}

    SENIOR PROM

    {{gwi:236387}}

    ATOMIC WHITE

    {{gwi:236388}}

    GOLDEN ARCTIC

    {{gwi:236389}}

    TIP TOES

    {{gwi:236390}}

    QUEEN O THE LAKES

    {{gwi:236391}}

    CURLY PINK
    {{gwi:236392}}


    RHODE ISLAND RED

    {{gwi:223473}}

    WHITE CAP

    {{gwi:236394}}

    BREAK O DAY

    {{gwi:236395}}

    MARIA STERN, FULLY OPEN

    {{gwi:231572}}

    NEARLY WILD

    {{gwi:232303}}

    DR. BROWNELL

    {{gwi:236397}}

    COUNTRY DOCTOR

    {{gwi:236398}}

    V FOR VICTORY

    {{gwi:236399}}

    ORANGE RUFFELS

    {{gwi:236400}}

    EVERBLOOMING PILLAR #73

    {{gwi:236401}}

    LILY PONS

    {{gwi:236402}}

    ONE MORE MARIA STERN, JUST OPENING

    {{gwi:236403}}

  • dr_andre_phufufnik
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I am in zone 4 as well and I have found a few of the Brownells do quite well, even if I grow them as perennial, dieback roses if they are on their own roots. I now have 'Charlotte Brownell,' 'Lafter' and 'Nearly Wild.' I have had them for many years now. 'Maria Stern' is coming this spring.

    These are equivalents to the Bucks and some of the hardier German roses. 'Lafter' can be hardy -- I often have a good bit of green cane. A few years ago we had a mild winter and there was no winter damage at all.

  • Vic007
    15 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I grow three Brownell varieties that have done well for several years. Pink Princess is usually one of my first roses to bloom. I also like Lafter & White Cap. White Cap is in constant bloom from late June through November and has above average disease resistance. Its one flaw is the tendency to ball in wet weather. Curly Pink & Tip Toes have not been vigorous and will probably be removed if they don't perform better this season. I tried Atomic White a few years ago and it had huge, gorgeous blooms but did not survive its first winter. I also have Rhode Island Red but it's too new to comment on.

  • summersrhythm_z6a
    7 years ago

    Just found this thread! I thought the 3 sub zero roses I have are Curly Pink, but I have 2nd thought, are they Show Garden? they grow long canes like climbers, I can't remember the fragrance since I have so many roses. I purchased about 8-9 years ago, lost the tags, all I remember is Sub Zero roses. If anyone can help me would be great. Thanks.


  • vasue VA
    7 years ago

    bump

  • Prettypetals_GA_7-8
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I love it whatever it is!!!

  • summersrhythm_z6a
    7 years ago

    Thanks! :-) I ordered 1 Curly Pink and 2 Show Garden from Jung Seed for April. So I can compare them......

  • Dingo2001 - Z5 Chicagoland
    7 years ago

    Summer those are really pretty!!

  • summersrhythm_z6a
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Thanks Dingo! Hopefully I can find the Rose name by summer, or I have to find Brownell family. :-)

  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
    4 years ago

    Summers, did you ever identify your rose?

  • summersrhythm_z6a
    4 years ago

    Vap, I lost a lot of roses last winter to voles. and that rose was one of them.

  • farmerduck NJ Z6b
    4 years ago

    Sumeme, it looks like Kordes Summer Romance, just a random guess

  • summersrhythm_z6a
    4 years ago

    It does, but I bought it 9-10 years ago, it was marked Sub Zero on the pot.

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