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Pruning My New Dawns--before & after

Posted by subk3 (My Page) on
Fri, Mar 15, 13 at 14:37

Those of you that have ever tangled with New Dawn are probably expecting to see my before and after wounded body parts! Fortunately, I've accomplished the task relatively unscathed!

I took pictures (sorry I can only figure out how to do one picture a post) and I'll try to remember to update this with flush pictures in a few months. Mostly I wanted to add this just for reference. For myself I can't see enough whole plant/plant structure pictures.

For the record this plant went in the ground from a 3-gallon pot 2 years ago so it is still rather young. Thanks to Paul Zimmerman's youtube video on how to prune and train a climber. The whole time I worked I heard his voice in my head: "main cane or lateral, main cane or lateral."

Wild and wooly before:


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Pruning My New Dawns--before & after

Left one neat and tamed (sorta) after:


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RE: Pruning My New Dawns--before & after

Right one after:


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RE: Pruning My New Dawns--before & after

If someone wants to tell me how to rotate the picture which doesn't show up tilted for me until I downloaded I'll be happy to edit!

Also note to self--next time I build a house, don't center water spickets in spaces your planning to put thorny monsters...


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RE: Pruning My New Dawns--before & after

They look great, and I love the trellises themselves. Can't wait to see pictures of them in bloom!


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RE: Pruning My New Dawns--before & after

  • Posted by seil z6b MI (My Page) on
    Fri, Mar 15, 13 at 20:31

You did a great job! And I agree with mericat, love the trellises! You will definitely have to post a picture when they bloom!


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RE: Pruning My New Dawns--before & after

THAT looks awesome. Keep us posted!


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RE: Pruning My New Dawns--before & after

  • Posted by elks US5 Can6 (My Page) on
    Sat, Mar 16, 13 at 8:54

You've done a great job, but The New Dawn will overwhelm those trellises. You have baby monsters there that will be nearly impossible to control. Good luck with them.

Steve


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RE: Pruning My New Dawns--before & after

well true, it can be a beast but, I grow mine in a restricted space along a narrow path so it gets a VERY brutal trim every year.....and every year, back it grows. It has such fantastic vigour that you can be rather fierce in making demands that this rose behave itself. After all, what are loppers for? I leave mine looking considerably scantier than yours, subk.
Good luck, love the trellis.


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RE: Pruning My New Dawns--before & after

Elks is right, my New Dawn gets way too large for those pretty trellises. I took mine down all the way to the ground this spring, and new canes are already 5-6 ft long.


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RE: Pruning My New Dawns--before & after

My original thought was as the rose throws out longer canes to send them up over the three roofs over each stoop. I've easily got 20' from the base at the ground up then over the tops of the roofs. (HMF has it with canes 10'-20')

The trellis themselves are 3/8" STEEL sunk 3+ feet in the ground less than a foot from the foundation of the house. They also have the capability of being attached to the house if further stability is needed. I'd guess they are 100+ pounds each as it took two big guys to manhandle them into place. Just out of curiosity does that change anyone's mind as to whether the trellis will be overwhelmed?

All that being said I've wasn't wild about the ND last year and this is a stellar spot for sun and an important focal point in my perennial garden. I have two Annie Laurie McDowells coming in a few weeks, but I figured it would be 18 months or so before they would be ready to replace these two. (Although ALM might go on my four board fence at the entrance to my farm.) I figured these two could get whacked back to next to nothing and put on my scruffy fence line behind the house where they would have unlimited space and could go wild with limited management and it wouldn't matter.

This post was edited by subk3 on Sat, Mar 16, 13 at 17:52


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RE: Pruning My New Dawns--before & after

Those two files that appears rotated 90 degrees is a Gardenweb problem. There is not options to rotate when you post in Gardenweb. I downloaded your files and it appears correctly when viewed with an image viewer.

Here is your same file unedited. Just reposted.

This post was edited by Jsmith1776 on Sun, Mar 17, 13 at 4:08


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RE: Pruning My New Dawns--before & after

Second picture. Unedited just reposted, but still has the same problem.


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RE: Pruning My New Dawns--before & after

Your second pictures posted a second time.


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RE: Pruning My New Dawns--before & after

OK, so how DO you turn the hose on and off?
Idle minds want to know... ;-)

(Nice trellis, BTW, and good job with the ND's - should have tons of bloom for you the way you have those canes angled back and forth.)


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RE: Pruning My New Dawns--before & after

  • Posted by elks US5 Can6 (My Page) on
    Sun, Mar 17, 13 at 8:20

If you're planning to let the canes go over the roofs, they should look fabulous. When I referred to the trellises being overwhelmed, it was by the size of the plant, not its weight.

Annecelilia, I have electrical outlets 'protected' by roses. Its always interesting when I have to use one.

S


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RE: Pruning My New Dawns--before & after

They look great. I love how you criss crossed the canes to stay within the shape of the trellis. I whacked back my QE climber last week. I have a tendency to let my climbers to get really out of control ( my after would look like your before). But this year I'm doing take no prisoners pruning. I think having the longer canes going above is a great idea. Please post pictures when they are blooming.


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RE: Pruning My New Dawns--before & after

jsmith thanks for rotating my photos! They looked correct for me until they posted as well.

I turn the hose on very, very carefully! ;-) It is certainly motivation to keep the rose whacked back as needed, but it is also why plan B is to maybe replace it with a thornless one.


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RE: Pruning My New Dawns--before & after

Oh boy. I vowed I wouldn't join this thread because I've put my ND days behind me. Over the years, I've tried to grow (they grew) several NDs in different locations around this property. Always, "brutal" was the watchword, as campanula so aptly put it, when pruning my NDs. It was more like a cane massacre and I'm not so sure who won. My last remaining ND grew on a large metal arbor. So, wearing my goatskin, elbow length gauntlets, I would mount a step ladder for the attack. After seven years of this, I'd had it. The final straw came when ND, in victory, broke my sturdy metal arbor, which had the design flaw of being made in two welded parts. ND broke the welds. So last year, she came down, and I have been a free person since. Several years ago, I gave two NDs to a very experienced gardening friend with unlimited space and a long fence where the NDs were to grow, After a few years, she removed them because of the constant pruning hassle.
One final note. When your NDs grow thicker, you will have a heck of a time turning your hose off and on. In the past, I've used a second faucet set up, where a short length of hose was attached to the first faucet. This short piece of hose ended in a second faucet out of harm's way, and could either be mounted on a metal post or simply lie on the ground. It worked very well in more than one spot, and you won't have to come near the ND. Diane


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RE: Pruning My New Dawns--before & after

Can't wait to see that in bloom. Any pics from last year?


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RE: Pruning My New Dawns--before & after

Nanadoll I hear you! I selected ND before I started hanging out in the GW rose forums and knew any better, which is why I have a pair of a thornless, polite and self deadheading climbers coming as bands this spring. If I give it a couple more years and decide I don't want to deal with the NDs anymore I've got an option in the pipeline! The DH suggested the hole extender as well...

By request, last year's flush on a very immature plant:


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RE: Pruning My New Dawns--before & after

Beautiful! subk3, if only ND would stay this height or a couple of feet higher. I think you know what you're doing. I was extremely stupid in my acquiring multiple NDs. I wish I had been on this forum eight years ago. What a lot of work and blood it would have saved me. Diane


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RE: Pruning My New Dawns--before & after

That last picture is so very pretty and this year I know they will be outstanding. Last fall I had to take out my new dawn. I could not handle the pruning any longer. I know I will miss this spring bloom, but it had to go. You have a good handle on yours, and it will be spectacular soon. Please post a picture....can`t wait to see it. Lesley


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RE: Pruning My New Dawns--before & after

Fun to read these posts! I have a ND about 15 years old, probably 10 feet wide and 10 feet high (and around, for that matter). It crushed the trellis it is on, and this year several invasive vines came right up the middle, where I can't reach to pull them. They are driving me nuts!
Next year I hope to do some real trimming back...how far can I go? And when? Wish I could do that trimming encased in armor...
Thanks for suggestions!


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RE: Pruning My New Dawns--before & after

Lol, I love reading this thread about ND because I have a little bitty one in a 1 gallon pot next to a huge, very long fence. My husband thinks I have very cute and small roses in pots, he has NO idea how big they are going to get. I plan on making a barrier to keep the cats in the backyard. I have a baby mme Alfred carrier on another fence line. Two baby Cecile Brunner's climbing a tree in the front. I cannot wait to see his dismay :)


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RE: Pruning My New Dawns--before & after

Lol, I love reading this thread about ND because I have a little bitty one in a 1 gallon pot next to a huge, very long fence. My husband thinks I have very cute and small roses in pots, he has NO idea how big they are going to get. I plan on making a barrier to keep the cats in the backyard. I have a baby mme Alfred carrier on another fence line. Two baby Cecile Brunner's climbing a tree in the front. I cannot wait to see his dismay :)


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RE: Pruning My New Dawns--before & after

Lol, I love reading this thread about ND because I have a little bitty one in a 1 gallon pot next to a huge, very long fence. My husband thinks I have very cute and small roses in pots, he has NO idea how big they are going to get. I plan on making a barrier to keep the cats in the backyard. I have a baby mme Alfred carrier on another fence line. Two baby Cecile Brunner's climbing a tree in the front. I cannot wait to see his dismay :)


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RE: Pruning My New Dawns--before & after

Of the hundreds of climbers available, why do so many choose ND--and then put it on arbors and doorways where it can attack passerbys? What is the point of planting a rose you will have to prune every two months just to avoid being sued, esp since it is not even that great at repeat blooming. It's like buying a race horse and then cutting off its feet so it wont run away. Personally, I'd replace them with something that does what you really want. But I can't make any suggestions because you haven't posted where you are or what zone.


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RE: Pruning My New Dawns--before & after

Sorry about the previous posts, my iPad said they weren't loading. I might offer up a suggestion about why so many pick New Dawn. It is listed as an Earthkind Rose from A&M. For those who do not know what that means: It had to live up to a field test in Texas weather with drought conditions, no fertilizer or spray and still perform for either 2 or 3 years. Not many roses can do that without dying. I went to help me find as well when researching more heat tolerant varieties and New Dawn is very highly rated by its members. I personally needed a vigorous climber to cover about 30 ft of fence in the back that will be in full Texas sun from morning until night. A thorny rose to keep cats in the yard:) I suppose that most people do not realize how vigorous this rose really is.


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RE: Pruning My New Dawns--before & after

The reason 'New Dawn' is famous and popular is that it has large, attractive flowers, decent repeat, above-average hardiness, and exceptional disease resistance, especially blackspot resistance that holds up just about everywhere. As of 20 years ago--much less 80 years ago when it was discovered--very few large-flowered repeaters (bush or climber) had this combination of qualities. Today there are more choices, but ND is still an outstanding rose. Don't blame the rose if some people plant it in the wrong places. Its growth habit is not a secret.


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RE: Pruning My New Dawns--before & after

Kutekaos, you are putting ND to good use in a great spot where it can do its thing, tho I'll be curious to learn if it does keep the cats in the yard. I'm sure it will keep dogs and people out, however.

Michael, I certainly don't blame the rose. While I would agree that its hardiness propelled ND to the front of the line initially, I suspect ignorance and lack of research, on the part of both buyers and sellers, keep it there. It is easily available and easy to grow and nobody reads the tag. I'd wager that those who are sold ND are also sold lots of less hardy roses as well.


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RE: Pruning My New Dawns--before & after

  • Posted by subk3 7a/Mid TN (My Page) on
    Wed, Jun 26, 13 at 23:31

Of COURSE ignorance and lack of research have kept ND a popular rose. That's how the vast majority of the rose buying public actually buys their roses!

But around here the reason it sells well is because there are so many out there in neighborhoods looking wonderful and people see it and want it. It's that simple.

Now, I also have a theory why in my area there are so many ND and not many examples of other things. In the early 80s we had a several nights in a row well below zero and it wiped out all the teas and other warm weather roses that can do well here. ND is hardy a couple zones colder than most teas and it was still early in the general interest of Old Roses. I suspect many that were lost were unidentified and/or unavailable commercially even if you knew what they were. So they weren't for the most part replaced. But the ND lived on.

As to why I have them by those doorways? We don't use those doors--they are mainly for show. A hallway is on the other side and stray cane blooming on the other side of the window is a pretty lovely thing to see as you walk down that hallway. An quite frankly it's a perennial garden and it's just not that big of a deal to whack it back when needed. And I can whack it back and not worry if I've hurt it feelings or if it's going to sulk. It can completely defoliate from rose slugs and a few weeks later be back in business.

Considering all the temperamental, fragile, accident prone roses out there, there is always going to be a market for a robust one. Don't get me wrong there are things I don't like about it and since I bought them I've discovered other possibilities that might be as good or better and I've considered replacing them. But if I replace them it won't be because of their exuberance!


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RE: Pruning My New Dawns--before & after

I have two :) Mine repeat nicely (not continuously, but nice flushes), so I never get the comments about repeat other than to notice that I must've gotten a good clone.

I think her blooms are gorgeous. Much better in person, imho. But her utility for me is that she blooms in so much shade it's unreal!

I have one just cut and transplanted behind 6 ft tall old, old boxwoods and she's even blooming behind them, lol. She'll eventually climb up her wall trellis and find the sun, but I didn't expect that she'd bloom there at 2 ft tall :) The soil isn't great, as you'd imagine with boxwood roots thicker than your wrist. No problem for that girl :D

I'm not going to deadhead her, though! She's to be seen at a distance anyway there. I'll prune/tie once every year and that's it for that area.

My other one grows in evergreen trees under huge maple trees and just does her thing. I prune her pretty severely, but I just don't want her too tall or wild there. The pruning is more severe but it's no more work in my mind than the pruning I do on all my mature climbers.

I never did let her get out of hand in the first place, mind you. That would not be a good idea with New Dawn at all, no :) Bad soil is practically a prerequisite at the least, imho. (That's after she puts out more mature growth, btw, y'all. You could actually kill her as a little baby plant, I'd imagine).


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