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Need suggestions....help please

Posted by Jared77 5b-6a MI (My Page) on
Sun, Mar 17, 13 at 18:06

Hi;

I've got kind of a special request and I'm hoping for some help. My wife carried a big black magic bouquet at our wedding and I want to keep a rose that's as close of an imposter to Black magic as possible.

We're hoping to close on a house here so I'll FINALLY be able to start getting serious about my collection and be able to grow a rose just for her. I always thought I lived in 5b but apparently I'm 6a and really want to do this for her.

Anyway I know that Black Magic is a zone 7 kind of plant so I was hoping to find an imposter or a darn near carbon copy. I'm really after something that looks just like she carried down the isle but be a bit more zone friendly.

I'm not afraid to try to push the zone a bit but I'm not sure if I'd have much luck given what I've already read about Black Magic not being the strongest variety to begin with. Besides the novelty would wear off if I have to keep replacing it. ;)

I've done some homework and found Deep Secret which looks the part but buying on a single picture I'm sure will come back to bite me.

I was hoping to make it a surprise for my wife. Even if I can't order it this year, I want to get it ordered for next year and ammend/prep the ground this year.

I'm starting to go cross eyed from looking at all the dark red varieties. I really appreciate any help on this I can get.

Thank you!


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Need suggestions....help please

Click on the list below--that should get you a good list of black red roses.

Sorry I can't advise you on any of them. I don't grow any of them.

Good luck in your search.

Kate

Here is a link that might be useful: Black roses--listed at helpmefind.com


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RE: Need suggestions....help please

How about growing it in a pot and over-wintering it in your garage? I do this with several zone tender roses and they do very well.I move them out and place the pots where I want and have beautiful roses all season that would not make it thru our winter. Just a suggestion...good luck.


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RE: Need suggestions....help please

Hi there. Congratulations on your recent wedding.

So you want to grow Hybrid Tea roses- which is the kind of rose you see also at the florist store.
Many people grow hybrid tea roses in your climate very successfully. In fact, if you go to the local rose garden, I'd bet the vast majority of those roses are Hybrid Teas. Most Americans honestly think it is the only kind of rose there is.....

anyway. ...All hybrid teas are classes as hardy to zone 6 or 7. That doesn't mean it can't grow in lower zones, it means the canes will be damaged by the cold in a lower zone winter.

Planting a shrub below the zone you want usually is a bad idea because you are starting over every year with winter die back and a short little shrub- But with roses, even in warm climates, we want to start the year with a failry short rose so we prune them down to 18 inches anyway- so it's not that big of a deal if it dies down more in your cold winter.

You just don't want it to die to the bud union. That kills it. So to prevent this, those in cold areas plant the rose deeper in the ground. Bury that knot 6 inches under the soil and the dirt will protect it. . You can also protect your rose more in the fall to help it keep more cane (Ask the rose forum more about that as fall approaches).

In the spring, when it is time, you will need to prune your rose's canes down to green wood. It's very easy, (actually in cold climates it's the easiest!) so don't worry about that.

In short-- just find a rose you like and give it a try.

Good luck and best wishes on your marriage and new home.


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RE: Need suggestions....help please

Buy 3 bush's of Black Magic and plant then close together (18" apart triangle). A special rose for a special person. If you have a sunny, south facing wall against you're home, that would be great. But wherever you plant them, winter protect them come mid Nov. With good protection you shouldn't have any problems growing this beautiful rose.


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RE: Need suggestions....help please

I'd say go for it with the original Black Magic. I've had a grafted Black Magic in my yard for 5 years, and as long as you bury the graft a few inches it has never had much trouble coming back from the winters here in zone 5 Nebraska. Sometimes I have to prune it fairly low, but it has been a reasonably tough rose here. I do have this one planted in my zone 6 "pocket", and you might choose the south side of your house or another protected area if you want to give it a little more security. You can also do as I do and add some winter protection in its first few years if you feel like it - I place cut up 1/3 of filled leaf bags next to (but not touching) the rose all around AFTER the ground has frozen. This rose in my yard survived before I started doing that, however.

If you're looking for other roses the same color as a backup, Black Lady and LavaGlut are both equally dark and totally hardy in zone 5, though the blooms are a bit smaller (particularly for LavaGlut). Schwarze Madonna is pretty close to Black Magic and it's from a breeder that makes them tough (Kordes). It has grown well for 2 years so far here. Black Baccara is only in its second year so far for me, and it's fairly gangly and leggy, but it has those to-die-for dark blooms. Frances Dubreil/Barcelona is a looser form Hybrid Perpetual, but it has that lovely dark color and a scent to die for, and don't be fooled - it's cane hardy in zone 5. Nigrette is the same lovely dark red and seems to have survived, but it's a fussy pants rose and never gets anywhere close to the 5' that Black Magic will grow.

Among the alternates you mentioned, Deep Secret is one that I've tried 3 times that simply will not overwinter in my yard. Black Pearl might have survived the last winter, but it was a mild winter. Both of those are notably less hardy for me than Black Magic, even though the breeder Delbard is usually hardy for me with most of their roses.

Bottom line suggestion from me is to buy the Black Magic (or several if you have the space) and surprise your wife. It's a lovely sentiment and she'll be thrilled at the surprise, and Black Magic has as good or better chance of thriving in zone 5 as any other HT. Just be sure to prepare your soil well by mixing in organic materials in the area, bury the graft, and water well the first year.

Cynthia


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