May I suggest another rose altogether, Souvenir de la Malmaison? In my hot and dry climate it's been wonderful, although of course I do water it. The flowers are exquisite, and the bush is full and rounded and doesn't get too tall. After more than three years it's less than 4 feet tall and about 4 1/2 feet wide. It blooms practically year-round and, other than a little mildew in wet weather, it has no disease. I grow a few Austin roses, but not all have been successful. My favorite is one of the old Austins, Potter and Moore, available from Rogue Valley Nursery. Bishop's Castle is also wonderful, fragrant richly pink flowers and no disease, and it can stand the heat. Carding Mill is also wonderful in the heat, blooms a lot and is very healthy. I love old roses the best, and all of these roses fit in very well in a romantic, cottage-style garden. I plant reblooming irises and other companion plants among the roses for a natural and casual look. Pretty Jessica is new but I think will also do very well, as does Sophy's Rose. I don't grow Romanticas and can't comment on them.

If I'm thinking lovely shrub roses, I tend to think Austins! If I'm thinking more HT or foribunda or grandiflora style, I tend to think Romantica roses.

But I'm sure there are exceptions if one starts searching those categories carefully.

You might check out the shorter Austins--he has quite a few by now. Munstead Wood and Princess Alexamdra of Kent are two shorter (and newer) ones that occur to me off the top of my head.--both are lovely and would stay well under 8ft, I would guess.

Kate

P. S. By the way, Souvenir de la Malmaison is a short beauty!

I have grown most of the Romanticas and over half of all of the Austin roses ever introduced. Many of the Austin roses grow much bigger in the parts of CA that are blessed with long growing seasons; Graham Thomas, Wenlock, Gertrude Jeckyll and The Pilgrim, which are nice sized sized shrubs in the UK, will all top 10 feet here.

But I agree with Kate, that there are a good number of them that will remain much more compact here, such as Sophy's Rose, Ambridge Rose, Tamora, The Prince, Prospero, Happy Child, Glamis Castle, Mary Webb, Windemere, Wife of Bath, Pretty Jessica,Lady Hamilton, Princess Alexandra of Kent, Munstead Woods, Fair Bianca, and so many more. I have just received 3 of the new releases this year: Boscobel, Heathcliff, and Tranquility, which I believe are also supposed to be compact, but time will tell.

I also agree with Ingrid that some of the old garden roses such the non-climbing version of Souv. de la Malmaison are worth consideration as well as Marquise Bochella/Jacques Cartier and Comte de Chambord.

I can also recommend a number of the roses that were bred by John Clements of Heirloom Roses would do well for you and remain compact. Some of my favorites from this collection are: Star of the Nile, Safari, Joan Fontaine, Memories, and Tranquility.

Good luck in your choices,

John

Romanticas in my garden have been not much different than HTs. A bit more shrubby, maybe, but they can get very big.

Austins--some are compact, others grow huge. The size you read in the Austin catalog--a good rule of thumb is to double that for Southern California. Many of them are shrubbier and more graceful growers than HTs, but they vary a lot.

Thanks for all the great advice! I think I might be leaning towards the smaller David Austins. I really like Boscobel...I tend to prefer the more colorful roses. I have heard that the blooms of David Austins will droop to the ground after rains That was my main reservation, but since it doesn't rain too much here, I guess I can put up with that. :)

I would go with the Romanticas here in So Ca if you don't want tall and leggy! The Austins I have put out octopus legs after their initial bloom and don't bloom that much. They hang their heads too. The Romantica's I have are Yves Piaget and Liv Tyler (used to be Comtesse de Provence). They stay much shorter and sturdier, are upright and last longer!

Drooping due to rain has been no greater problem for my Austin's than for any other type of rose in my garden.

Unless a number of posters start reporting that Boscobel (to use that example) has special problems handling the rain, I wouldn't worry about those broad generalizations implying that "all" Austins" suffer from certain problems.

Kate