Pine needle mulch (aka pine straw) is the most common mulch material in my area. I like using it in my rose beds because it's so easy to move around when I need direct access to the soil around the plants. It breaks down fairly rapidly, altho there's variation among the types of pine straw. The most sought after, hardest to find these days, & most costly straw comes from long leaf pines. In most applications, straw is left in place & new straw is spread each year (or more often). I completely remove the straw from my rose beds at pruning time each year (early Feb), and apply fresh straw about six weeks later. I'm getting my 2010 delivery next week.

In recent years, the quality of pine straw here has really deteriorated so one has to be very particular about where it's purchased -- otherwise there's a risk of getting old straw, and/or bales containing lots of 'foreign' matter.

For the first time last year, PLASTIC straw became available. It's terribly expensive, looks great, and makes me shudder.

I have been using pine needle mulch in all my garden beds for years. They don't sell it around here, but it is plentiful and free wherever anyone has a couple of white pine trees growing. Our neighbors have 2 and I rake their needles, plus we have another friend across town that rakes them and saves them for me. They are lightweight and easy to spread, and look good, esp. once they fade a bit and lose that orangish tint and turn brown.

However, they don't seem to add much to the soil. They are slow to break down, which is good in a way because you don't have to apply as often. I alternate mulching with shredded leaves, and the leaves really enrich the soil, it's as if having added compost after they break down. Or I will spread compost and/or leaves, then pine needles on top.

I use the pine needles places I don't want things to grow, like paths and under the eave overhang. They literally take years to break down, and even then don't seem to do much. I used to use them around iris (back when I was still trying to grow TBs in normal garden beds) and the next time I redid the bed, it was easy to tell where that section was.

That's what I was afraid of mad_gallica. I remember in another post you mentioning how long they take to break down. They do look great I think, but I don't know if I will use them in all my beds now. I want something that will deter slugs and such but not take forever to break down. I did start a leaf compost bin this past fall, so when I can get enough of that good stuff then I will lay down some of that in fall time to enrich the soil. But, for now, I don't have enough of it! Darn!
Windeaux, there is a place that sells pinestraw. It's online at The Pine Straw Store, and I bought some last season for the hosta beds. It comes in many sizes(long needles and shorts) and looks great in the hosta beds. The company was really fast at shipping too.
I wish I could get them free here, but we have only oaks, maples, and pleny of "firs" that don't drop their needles. I would much rather just save the money and rake them up myself.
Well, maybe I'll just stick to the mini pine mulch for the rose beds then. I'm still thinking about it though.

Thanks all for your thoughts.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pine Straw Store

I'm really envious of all of you for whom pine straw doesn't deteriorate rapidly. Must have something to do with with cooler temps and less solar intensity. If if didn't break down rapidly here in the sunny south, we'd all be neck-deep in the stuff.

I agree with windeaux....must be a regional thing. I apply the pine straw yearly to all azaleas, gardenias and hydrangeas because it is always gone. I haven't used it too much around roses but think it would be good there, too.

Lynn

It breaks down very quickly here. I wish I had more of it. Also seems to have worked the best for winter-protecting roses as is stays very dry.

kentstar, if I had to pay money for pine needle mulch, I probably wouldn't use it. Since it is free for me and abundant I do take advantage of it, but like I said, it doesn't really contribute anything to the soil and I have to add leaves and/or compost underneath the pine needles.

I do believe it's a myth that pine needles change the pH of the soil. I have been checking the pH in certain beds that I have been mulching with needles for almost 10 years (blueberry bushes) and the pH hasn't changed a bit.

Maybe we have different kinds of pines here than in the south. Ours are mostly white pines, there is another pine that shreds its needles that has coarser needles, grows closer to the shore, I don't know the name of.

Pine needles do make a good winter protection as they stay fairly dry like maureen said vs. leaves.

Here in southeast Georgia, pine straw is just about all we use, because it's cheap and readily available. As it breaks down it makes the soil more friable. Oh, yes, and it's very decorative as well.

Whenever you decide what type of mulch your going to use. Some say used coffee grounds repels slugs. Spread on your soil and cover with mulch.

Oh good Jim, I have lots of UCG's I've collected over winter just from drinking all my coffee. I didn't know those are supposed to repel slugs.

Thanks

Here's some other ideas on controlling slugs.

http://www.gardenguides.com/833-non-toxic-slug-control-garden-pest-tip.html

I started using it because of several reasons: 1. started getting too $$ (cost and time) for hardwood shredded mulch each year 2. started hurting my back hauling & spreading the mulch for my rose beds that holds, cumulatively, over 150 bushes 3. I am surrounded by pine trees from my neighbors and was raking away the thick layer of pine straw every year for the expensive hardwood shredded mulch.

I think laziness and cheapness won over, primarily. My pine straw doesn't break down easily at all. I didn't realize other pine needles did depending on the region.

Good luck w/ yours.

It seems to me that I am the only one who doesn't like pine needless for mulch. I used it for years but I never liked it. I checked the price and it isn't cheaper than hard wood mulch. I like the darker color in the beds. It looks nicer and makes the bed neater - for my eyes, at least.

Whoa! This is news to me. Always thought pine needles caused acidity. Usually not much grows under pine trees where I live. Had a friend who tried to plant climbing roses near some rather large pine trees and they all died. At Heirloom Gardens, the roses that are growing near the pine trees are sickly looking. There is enough sun, just assumed that the soil was too acidic. Live and learn. CJ

cj, it probably has more to do with the pine ROOTS than the NEEDLES.

I used to shovel tons and tons of bulk pine bark. Eventully the pine bark grew lots of weeds....or did it arrive with the seeds imbedded in it?.....

I now use pine needles. Until I can get my pine trees large enough to produce what I need, I have to buy the baled stuff. Fortunately, in my area, it is plentiful and inexpensive. Way cheaper than the bulk bark. The bark always made me ill too. I think they must spray it with something.

The pine needles are lightweight, break down somewhat quickly in my climate, and inhibit weeds as well as insects. My roses are happier, in fact they love it and are healthier. It dries out quicker, so it doesn't hold blackspot causing moisture around my roses, but holds moisture in the ground, where it is needed. It also has a nice woodsy look to it, and smells nice.

I will never go back to bark.

Sandy

Pine straw normally breaks down quicker the more weather (sunlight and rain) it is exposed to. One of the advantages of pine straw as a mulch is the fact that it is slower to break down and provides its mulch properties longer than a lot of mulches. As to the acidity issue, I recently performed some testing and published my findings on the Pine Straw Info website. Cut and paste the following address into your browser to read the report. http://www.pinestrawinfo.com/PineStrawMulchAcidity-SeparatingFactFromFictionThroughAnalyticalTesting.pdf

Here is a link that might be useful: Pine Straw Info website

I appreciate the feedback on mulch here.. I like the idea of pine straw.. some touched on the subject of coffee grounds inhibiting slugs, I don't know about that BUT Roses LOVE coffee grounds... they flourish when fed after the growing season during the winter months one good application can give them enough strength to WOW you when the Blooming begins again. By the way MOST Starbucks GIVE away their used grounds for your garden.. its good for veggie garden soil and composting as well!! Just a lil tidbit Ive learned along the way.

I just ordered roses from Heirloom Roses, and I saw that the warranty for the roses is voided if you mulch with pine needles. Just now on here, and on a site by professional rosarians I have read that pine needles are the best mulch to use around roses. How can the people at Heirloom think they kill roses? That's what they told me--that pine needles are so acidic they kill roses.

I am wondering if the reason they do not want you to use pine needles is that they want the rose to develop for a couple of years. @Strawchicago has posted that rose roots change over time. Baby or first year roses need something different then older more mature plants. I know that Rose Unlimited also recommends a different feeding plan for first year roses then the more mature bushes.... hopefully someone in the more know can answer why Heirloom might say this....

Also I wonder if all pine straw is the same... Much of the pine straw in Florida is from the Australian pine tree. It is now consider and invasive plant and people can't plant it, but the needles can be up to two feet long... I have a norfolk pine tree that has kind of branch(ie) needle about a half foot long with tiny needles less then 1/4 inch off the main needle.

and of course the scotch pine and fraiser fir trees loose their needles at Christmas, and their needles are totally different.... I wonder what the nutrient differences are in all of them.

I also just read that pine needles break down so slowly that they leech nitrogen from the soil because they need the nitrogen to break down. Although I've always used pine needles, I see that my roses, mulched with pine needles, are dying. They are dying even before the buds open. All the other roses in neighbors yards are vibrant and beautiful. They use wood mulch. I'm so confused now.

strawchicago. do you think different kinds of pine needles have different ph's...

I always have tons of earthworms under my pine needles????

jeannemott

44 minutes ago

I always have tons of earthworms under my pine needles????

????

Sharon: good question about different pines have different pH. I think so, since leaves have different pH, ranging from 4.3 to 8, see below:

http://www.asecular.com/forests/phleaves.htm#:~:text=pH%20of%20Freshly%20Fallen%20Leaves%20%20%20,%20%203%20%2043%20more%20rows%20

Note that I covered an area of my alkaline clay with pine-needle and check the pH compared to my compost pile of kitchen scraps (fruits and veggies). The soil under the pine-needle is acidic & very soft and fluffy. Pine-needle's acidity converted my rock-hard clay into soft fluff. Such acidity also can corrode roots.

The soil below the kitchen-scraps compost pile (neutral pH) has tons of earthworms ... compared to very few worms under the pine-needle.

I also have regular leaves (maple) that covered my clay with more earthworms below, and the pH below leaves is alkaline since my clay stays rock-hard below leaves.