Which old red has the most powerful scent to your nose? Is Crimson Glory the most perfumed? The only rose I'm not willing to get is Papa Meilland, which is so scrawny.

Crimson Glory is one of the all time best scents - in any rose. It may be the best. It was the first to win the Gamble award and one of the first highly sought-after hybrid teas. However, while the bush is quite strong, it's much older in habit than a typical modern hybrid tea these days. Stems are very short, and the flowers almost always bend over. Petals can be low in number and the blooms may blow fast, but they are a deep red with a highly velevety substance. I'd never be without one.

Oklahoma is another fine one, but has a different set of issues. The stems are longer, but not very strong. At the same time, the bloom is very large with a huge number of petals. It will often bend over simply because of the weight. It also purples very badly when the temp is not quite right (hot or cold). It can easily ball.

As for the others you mention, Mister Lincoln may be the finest example of an overall hybrid tea. About the only disadvantage is the susceptibility to disease. It must be sprayed to keep mildew off and is also susceptible to BS in most areas. Some may say that the habit is too vertical and very seldom branches out into anything that resembles a "bush." That said, there are few roses anywhere that offer up longer stems and consistently single buds. The flower form is perfect exhibition form. Buds can be harvested as soon as the sepals turn down (or a little before) and can be reliably depended on for opening in the vase. Blooms can be saucer-sized when fully open. Petals are a deep and brilliant red and velvety. As said, about the only disadvantage is disease resistance, but that infects all fragrant red hybrid teas.

IMHO, Mister Lincoln is the finest red hybrid tea, period.

Another to add to the list is 'Barcelona,' aka Francis Dubreuil, a prolific bloomer with intense damask fragrance. Like 'Crimson Glory,' it does not have classic HT form.

I sure would hate to have to choose between Crimson Glory and Chrysler Imperial because they are two of my favorite of close to 90 moderns. Both have outrageously delicious fragrances. Crimson Glory has shorter stemmed, and darker more velvety blooms. The bush is slightly shorter and rounder than Chrysler Imperial (about 3' x 3'). It is a blooming machine, and the blooms are very long lasting. Chryler Imperial has more of that "perfect form", larger HT bloom, on long stems. It is a brighter red. It blooms in flushes, but repeats consistently spring thru fall. Both bushes for me are very healthy with no disease problems.

Mr. Lincoln and Oklahoma were planted late last summer. Mr. Lincoln has been a slow starter for me, but it is also in only a partial sun spot. Both had a few blooms - dark and long stemmed, beautiful form, both blew very fast. This year Mr. Lincoln still looks a tad stunted (I really should move him), and Oklahoma is huge and healthy. I'm still skeptical that they will impress me as much as the first two, but time will tell.

I also planted Veterans Honor same time as Mr. Lincoln and Oklahoma. It has taken off like gangbusters, and its blooms are stunning, but I don't detect much of any fragrance.

Kay

Lee

Mr. Lincoln had great blooms, but the bush form was not appealing. I had to cut it back 3 times per year to keep it below 10'.

Oklahoma produced incredible, fragrant blooms. My plant just wasn't robust.

Oklahoma

Your question was my first question (mostly unasked) years ago. I kept doing forum searches on it and decided my first must have was Francis Db. Reading the descriptions of Crimson Glory here I'm really wondering what distinguishes it from Francis. I was infatuated with my first whiff of FDb and remain deeply in love although he's a feeble old timer a good deal of the year and all the other posted criticisms are true of him. Somehow I can't seem to be bothered by any of it. His cologne, pure attar, obscures any shortcomings. Given these realities however, I'm surprized he doesn't have notable children and grandchildren - the improved younger generation!
Subsequent research found the results you're getting.
I then narrowed my choice by the oft given wisdom here which is to find roses that are documented to do well in one's locale. So, I got Oklahoma last year on that basis. It's a tiny thing but is looking very healthy in its western exposure. I have hopes for when the corn is as high as an elephant's eye. Well, in a couple of years anyway.

Has hoovb weighed in? If I remember correctly hoovb is in your CA zone. Just an example of how to find out which of the short list will fare the best in your garden.

Now I'm trying to find my orange rose - see link below.

I used to have Mr. Lincoln but I got rid of it. Right now, I have FF and VH in my garden, they have only been in my garden for a couple of years, I'm not too impressed with either of them, we shall see.

PS. If anyone recalls my past posts about the Lincoln sport that is/was fushia, it is still growing strong. My original reason for growing 3 was to determine if it was a sport or some other obscure reason. Definately a sport, and an incredible rose!

To respond to your worry about Papa M. I have an own root one and give it the very little to no pruning treatment. It is now about 4'high X 3' wide and getting some very large and highly fragrant blooms. Yes, it does not grow very fast but it is a good rose and I do like it more than it's brothers Mr. L. or Oklahoma. I think in cold places it would have a bad reputation but here in central OC where it's warm it does very well. Sterling Silver gets the same bad press but with minimal pruning, I have a nice sized bush and it flowers with regularity through the year.

I find that many french roses like the long warm season here. Give them plenty of mulch and irrigation and they will not disappoint.

This thread got me thinking about how enamored I am with fragrant (and even non-fragrant) red roses. In doing constant "sniffy" tests, and examining each for aesthetics I've come to a new conclusion from my Chrysler Imperial is the one. I think for anyone who loves fragrant reds and has the opportunity to have at least one of each, having each is a great call. (And I must grab a firefighter someday as I've never had the opportunity to see/sniff one). I absolutely love all 4. Chrysler has the biggest, most formal HT form blooms. Mr. Lincoln the truest red. Oklahoma the deepest darkest red, less classic HT bloom - a little looser/cup-er. CG has some PM and the smallest blooms and bush, but I can't imagine not having her. These four roses have some of the best fragrance I've sniffed on roses - clarifying that all of my sniffing has been on modern roses! It all depends on what stage the blooms are in to determine which is the most fragrant that day - they do seem to take turns. Then on a whim I bought Veterans Honor and Ingrid Bergman last year. Neither has any fragrance for me, but the bloom form on both is so spectacular - who cares! The Ingrids last so long on the bush (and in a vase), and almost look fake they are so "perfect". I babble - I love reds! (And oranges, and purples, and yellows - I think I'm hopeless)

More heresy: maybe Firefighter is almost too assertive, perfume-wise - other deliciously fragranced roses such as the divine Parole and Valencia just get "drowned out" by FF in the room.

I only wish it were spicier, or threw to honeysuckle/jasmine, but FF to my nose is pure, almost industrial-strength rose potpourri. Apt fragrance for a rose whose dropped, shrivelled petals scattered on the coffee table still pump out scent.