I came across this thread as I am contemplating adding a few fragrant reds this spring. I live in east Texas where summers can get really hot. I mulch and water well, don't leave the roses to fend for themselves. I am thinking of ordering Firefighter and Chrysler Imperial. I have an own root Crimson Glory and just got a potted Mr. Lincoln. Would enjoy knowing which reds do well in hot southern climates. I have a friend with Mr. Lincoln in full hot all day sun that does well - grows tall, but prolific bloom. My Crimson Glory is still in a large pot - plan to get it in the ground when things dry up a bit. I also have an Alec's Red that I love - its not in all day sun, gets it up until about 1pm. I wish it would put out more basal breaks - its not very bushy, but blooms well, has good disease resistance and I adore the fragrant blooms. Would like to add more fragrant reds to my yard, but it would be nice to know which ones are likely to do well in Texas. Thanks in advance for any advice!
Judith

For a number of years, I gardened in the hot, semi-arid southeastern quadrant of New Mexico (quite near the Lubbock-Odessa-Midland area of west Texas). My very best fragrant red in that locale was the tall-growing, petal-packed 'Uncle Joe'. When I moved to my present home near the Atlantic coast, UJ was among the first roses I planted in my new garden. Unfortunately, it proved to be incompatible with the humidity here. It grew well and produced lots of buds, but very few of those buds ever opened fully.

I'm not familiar with conditions in east Texas, but I'm guessing that humidity levels there are greater than levels in the far western part of the state. If I'm wrong, and you do have reasonably low humidity in addition to the heat you've described, then consider 'Uncle Joe' (aka 'Toro').

I'm bumping this thread because I just placed an order to expand my little pot-pet collection of fragrant dark-red and crimson HTs. Currently growing in their new containers, the following came as bands last year:

Chateau de Clos Vougeot (16" pot)
Chrysler Imperial (resin half-barrel)
Mirandy (VID) (resin half-barrel)
Night (Lady Sackville) (16" pot)
Nigrette (16" pot)
Nocturne VID (16" pot)
Oklahoma (VID) (resin half-barrel)
Rose of Freedom (VID) (resin half-barrel)

Arriving next week will be:

Big Ben
Crimson Glory
Heart's Desire
Mister Lincoln
Red Masterpiece
Velvet Fragrance

They, too, will be pot-pets. The first five are coming as own-root gallon plants from Roses Unlimited. 'Velvet Fragrance' is coming as a band from Heirloom Roses, and as such will likely need to be babied for a while before graduating to a big container.

So...any further reviews on my new acquisitions?

:-)

~Christopher

Here is a link that might be useful: Resin Half-Barrel

In my climate, I grow Mr. Lincoln and Oklahoma in pots. My info, I'm sure, isn't pertinent to you LOL - but I wanted to share. :)

Mr. Lincoln has really nice scent and blooms more often than Oklahoma.

Oklahoma doesn't bloom very often, and often has trouble opening because of the rain. I detect no fragrance.

Here's a picture of Oklahoma

Here's a picture of my Mr. Lincoln.
As you can see - Oklahoma is a darker red. I love the look of it - which is why I keep it - even though there are (for me) better roses.

Does anyone here grow 'Olde Romeo'? I think I'll be keeping an eye out for this one.

:-)

~Christopher

Here is a link that might be useful: 'Olde Romeo' at HelpMeFind

I have had Mr Lincoln and want to get FF but I'm afraid it's not as big. Can anyone tell me if there is a lot of difference in size between the two?
(I don't want a rose as big as Fragrant Plum for example. )
Thanks

I have had Mr Lincoln and want to get FF but I'm afraid it's not as big. Can anyone tell me if there is a lot of difference in size between the two?
(I don't want a rose as big as Fragrant Plum for example. )
Thanks

According to helpmefind.com, they are roughly the same size--although I think they underestimate Mr. Lincoln's height, at least based on a number of posts we've had on GW.

Kate

Might any of our California posters have heard from or about Fr. Jerome?

AquaEyes, how did your new red roses grow for you this year? Your yard or patio must have been spectacular.

The pot-pet HTs were doing ok until (as expected) mid-Summer, by which time they mostly paused from blooming. The mixed pots I planned had some successes and some failures with respect to the annuals I chose, so I know for next year what to use instead. I also decided to stick to using fewer -- I think the number I used in the barrels put a strain on the roses. So next year, for the small pots, I'll probably stick to just three Alyssum around each rose. And for the barrels, just three Petunias.

I also learned that where I placed the pots was not ideal for dark red flowers -- too much sun. Unfortunately, I have to contend with a big riding lawnmower which my landlord parked where I originally wanted to arrange some of my pots and barrels. Hopefully, by Spring, it will be either removed or fit into the garage, and I can put the red pot-pet HTS where they get morning sun and afternoon shade. This year, so many flowers were crisped before fully opening! But, at least the plants grew well.

:-)

~Christopher

Hi Guys,

Nowadays I am trying to chose one of the red hybrid tea. I can see that the discussion is very long. It has starts in 2012 ans people still asks what to choose? What are your opinions after so long time?

1. Mr. Lincoln
2.Oklahoma
3.Chrysler Imperial
4.Mirandy (VID)
5.Firefighter
6. Crimson Glory
7.Papa Meilland

Is the smell of them fulfilling the garden or you can smell it with your nose right to them?

I have all you mentioned, except 'Firefighter' and 'Papa Meilland'. All are grown own-root in large containers. None of mine "perfume the garden" much, but their scents are very strong close-up. If you bring a bouquet inside, however, you will notice their scents throughout the room. To my nose, the best of the five are 'Mirandy' and 'Crimson Glory', but the others are very close behind.

Be aware that as similar as they may seem (all being fragrant red HTs), there are noticeable differences between the plants. 'Crimson Glory' will remain short (unless grafted, maybe). 'Mirandy' will grow a bit taller. Both have blooms which "hang their heads" a bit when fully open. 'Mirandy' has blooms that verge slightly toward maroon and dusky in shadings, picking up a bit of the darkness from its parent 'Night' (which I also have). 'Crimson Glory' is more of a bright blue-leaning dark red, without black or brown shadings.

My 'Chrysler Imperial' is similar to 'Mirandy' in growth, but the blooms are slightly lighter and a bit more upright. 'Mr. Lincoln' and 'Oklahoma' and 'Papa Meilland' are siblings, and children of 'Chrysler Imperial. My 'Mr. Lincoln' and 'Oklahoma' are very similar in growth, being more vigorous than 'Chrysler Imperial', and blooms are more upright. For me, 'Oklahoma' has a darker color, but 'Mr. Lincoln' has more of a "classic HT form" to its blooms. I don't have 'Papa Meilland' (yet!), but I understand it's less vigorous than the other two, and its blooms are the most fragrant of the three (though they are all strongly scented).

I have a half-brother of the last three which grows much like 'Mr. Lincoln' and 'Oklahoma'. This is 'Big Ben'. So far, its scent isn't quite as strong as the other two, but they are all still young right now. Two others of the more vigorous type I have are 'Red Masterpiece' and 'Velvet Fragrance'. They both smell great, and both put out stout thick canes in their first year, coming as own-root gallons.

:-)

~Christopher

~Christopher thank you for so detailed answer!!! Is it a pity you do not have papa meiiland. This specific rose is the easiest for me to get it.

What do you mean by writing:

" I don't have 'Papa Meilland' (yet!), but I understand it's less vigorous than the other two, and its blooms are the most fragrant of the three (though they are all strongly scented)."

??

'Oklahoma', 'Mister Lincoln' and 'Papa Meilland' are "brothers" -- they share the same parents. The first two actually arose from the same cross by the same breeder. 'Papa Meilland' was raised by a different breeder, who used the same parents but in the opposite direction (i.e. switched which rose gave the pollen and which bore the seed, but used the same two parents). Of the three, the first two are usually reported to grow more vigorously than 'Papa Meilland', but the more temperamental 'Papa' is often claimed to be "worth it" for the sake of its flowers. Look at all three on HelpMeFind and read the comments.

As to why I don't have it, well, at the times I was ordering roses it simply wasn't available from the vendors I chose. I picked a few of my pot-pet red HTs for Spring 2013 delivery, then ordered a few more for Spring 2014. I wanted them own-root -- being pot-pets, I'd actually prefer them to be less vigorous than the budded/grafted plants. The vendors from whom I purchased my pot-pet HTs were Heirloom Roses, Rogue Valley Roses, the late Vintage Gardens, and Roses Unlimited. I'm sure it's available elsewhere, but I didn't want "one rose from here, one from there, two from there..." etc. If I couldn't get it at the time, oh well -- maybe next year.

:-)

~Christopher

My vote is for Papa Meilland also, but Patrician an older HT from JP is very close as is Firefighter....

Heres my take on fragrant reds that I grow or have grown-

Papa Meilland- The best way to grow this is in a tightly planted group of 3, planted 1 foot or less apart. The branches are brittle and they will sometimes break in the wind. The bushes are awkward looking and mishapen when planted as single specimens, but the 3 together look pretty good. The scent is intense. On any given day, this could be the most fragrant.

Mr Lincoln- grows tall and throws off some very large flowers, along with some weirdly long canes. Like its brother Papa M, On any given day it could be the most fragrant rose.

Chrysler Imperial- Short, intense fragrance, not as winter hardy or as vigorous as the others.

Velvet Fragrance- Strong scent, good repeat, neat growth habit.

Firefighter- Grows taller and relatively narrow. Intense scent, good repeat. Could be the strongest.

Crimson Glory- Short ( I grow it ownroot) with nodding blooms, excellent repeat, Intense scent could be the strongest on any given day. I'm not a fan of blooms that point down.

Rouge Royal- Longest life in the vase, horrible if you let the flower open on the plant. You must cut every bloom off if you want to enjoy this plant, otherwise they open malformed with rot. Intence scent unlike the others, could be the strongest. This is not a true red, as it has purple tones.

Barcelona- Week bush, small blooms that get thrippy, intense scent.

Alec's Red- Has a lot of Pink, but still considered Red. Fantastic repeater, compact bush, intense scent, but just a half grade less intense than some of the others. One of my favorites.

Lasting Love- On the first flush, it's mostly one to a stem blooms, on later flushes it is more of a floribunda. Intense scent, could be the strongest. Good repeat, shorter, compact growth habit.

Oklahoma- Tall but not vigorous. I have tried 2x with this and they just never seem to like my garden. Slow repeat, but intense fragrance, could be the strongest.

I know I'm calling several of them the most fragrant, but on any given day, it changes.

In my mild area by Disneyland Papa M is large but I don't try to keep this rose small. I heard it is a weak grower but I think it is just a slower grower than some others. The bigger the plant, the more roses it has made. It continues to flower all year. The shape of the plant is open and tall. I have it in back tied to a few stakes to keep it from encroaching on other plants or breaking in the wind.

Is Firefighter better grafted or own root?

Judith

I cannot comment on own root roses as they don't do well generally in my beach sand garden. All my roses are grafted on Fortuniana which are drought and nematode resistant. And they grow like weeds. :) You might want to check with growers in your area.

Both Firefighters here are grafted (probably on Dr. Huey). I planted them deeply about 5 years ago, so perhaps they've gone own root by now. I would imagine this rose does fine on its own roots, in areas and soils where that works. It is an extremely vigorous plant.

I have both grafted and own-root FFs. The own-roots have proven slower than the grafted ones, though I think eventually performance will be about the same.

Papa Meilland is awesome, and also I still grow an old JP rose called Patrician, always the first rose to bloom in spring for me, great fragrance, pretty hardy, and decent disease resistance.....

Here are some photos to tempt:

Firefighter

Papa Meilland

Both smell divine right now... yum!

I'm in New Orleans. I used to have a wonderful dark red/black rose, Night Time, which I'm told only grows well in hot climates so it never attained national popularity. Unfortunately, the guy I hired to mow the lawn and weed eat got aggressive and massacred the Night Time last August and it hasn't come back. Now I can't find another! Does anyone know an online seller that has this rose?

HelpMeFind only lists one nursery in Texas for Night Time. Click the tab at the far right which says Buy From & then click Fanick's for their contact info. Does look lovely, Might give them a call...

http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.4481&tab=1 

Welcome to the forum! Sue

Wonderful reading! Decided to comment re Papa because of the comments about its poor/weak structure. My mother’s is four years old and a monster! Huge and strong. This is it in its current Australian Winter guise. I would like to prune it harder but I don’t want to over-encourage it! A gift to my mother, this beauty fills her house with fragrance. One of our most treasured times is to sit on Mum’s verandah in the evening when Papa’s blooms fill the air with the richest, headiest of perfumes. Sublime.

Of "Chrysler Imperial; Crimson Glory; Mirandy; Mister Lincoln; Papa Meilland; Oklahoma" and Firefighter, I have 5 of the 7.

For overall fragrance, I think Chrysler Imperial and Crimson Glory are best / strongest, but ** ALL ** are excellent.

Crimson Glory produces more blooms, short stemmed, Chrysler Imperial produces the most well formed, longest lasting blooms, long stemmed. My order of favorites of the 5 - but I love them all:

1. Chrysler Imperial
2. Crimson Glory
3. Firefighter
4. Oklahoma
5. Mr Lincoln

And it's confirmed, I need to get Papa Meilland!

treesheila - that does look like an excellently shaped shrub!! I wish I could visit you and sit on your porch and smell Papa Meilland with you. :)

Carol

My all time favorite among the darkest red with the most intoxicating fragrance combine with vigor & prolific

blooms all in one is non other than the unknown and underrated red rose named “Olde Romeo”. It out performs those 3 all time favorites plus the good “Firefighter”. I even gather the petals to make fragrant tea that has the aroma of fresh lychee since I don spray.

Hermes, I am a sucker for a beautiful red rose and your Olde Romeo is stunning !

Hermes, that is the first time I hear about this rose. What size does it grow for you (grafted/own root) and where are you located? I cannot find it in any nursery.

Olde Romeo used to be available at Hortico Nursery in Canada. California rose breeder Harvey Davidson created it . I live in Northern California. . It’s disheartening that his roses are not even popular... hardly available in California . His smooth touch thornless rose series are appreciated in Australia & Europe. Olde Romeo I think is only available in Europe. .

Olde Romeo is about 5 to 6 ft. without pruning almost rounded very vigorous and prolific bloomer. I didn’t even fertilize it this year. I think it’s grafted. But it’s easy to root its cuttings.

I grew Olde Romeo for 15 years. I got it from a cutting I took at the San Jose heritage Rose Garden in 2003. Fabulous rose. Unfortunately, it died ~2 years ago. Like so many other of my departed rare roses, I wish I had made a cutting of it.

Olde Romeo sounds like a perfect red rose!

It’s underrated super fragrant red rose.. Very easy to grow. In my garden it’s the best.

I wonder who might carry it ?

Pretty much no one. According to HMF, Hortico is listed but their listings are not up to date. And of course, Rogue Valley Roses, which has a TON of rare roses listed, none of which have been available for many years... "out of stock". Sorry, but I feel particularly snarky about Rogue Valley Roses. I've been on the "waiting list" for a lot of rare roses from them for several years. I think they keep them listed as a draw to their website, and have no intention of actually offering these roses. Grrr....

I agree Susan9, I have been on their waiting list for ever and never hear a thing

Clean up your list and let us know that that particular rose is no longer offered, please

Wow!!! That's a gorgeous red rose!!! And to hear that it's such a great rose...I wish Hortico would offer it again!!

RVRs has a tab now to in stock roses which are 500+, out of their total list of 1500+. Reframing the issue to their having 500+ interesting roses is another way to look at it. I, unfortunately, meandered through the available list and was overwhelmed with more great choices that I do not have yet. When will it end?

Finally back to this thread I started eight years ago. Olde Romeo looks awesome, and also unavailable in the US. I have missed you all and gardening. Last year I was on assignment in San Diego, a temporary arrangement that ended on October 30th. Back at the abbey now, and for any of you who remember me, I wanted to tell you that we are moving into the new place starting on January 11-16...the end of a long journey, and the beginning of a new one. Will there be roses at the new place? Yes. Ambrose and the seminarians transplanted over 100 of the current abbey collection to the new place. I was in San Diego, and I have no idea how they transplanted some of those roses. There was a tea (Rosette Delizy) that was about 10x10 that they basically made a bare root!! It's sprouting tons of shoots at the new location. I am constantly amazed at how tough roses are. When the new garden grows in, I'll post photos for you all.

Jerome

Great to hear from you Jerome. Maybe we can have a pilgrimage to your roses since Sacramento City Cemetery Rose Garden is being destroyed. Good luck with the move and your new garden.

It’s being destroyed??? Why?! That’s sad news indeed...and very 2020 in general

Yes, sadly Jerome. They have blocked volunteer access and cut it all down. Thread is on Antique Roses by Jeri & Kim. Kim (roseseek) posted most recently about the newsletter Sacramento City Cemetery update about the sad situation.

I’ll have to find that thread. I hope they at least let people take plants before they destroyed everything. We just dug up two enormous teas today, Étoile de Lyon and Mons. Tillier, and will plant them at the new place.

I hope they’ll allow some Rose enthusiasts to obtain some cuttings/ budwoods of varieties that are not available for sale to save those varieties.

Hi Jerome. Glad to see you posting here again. I look forward to seeing the new rose garden in 2021!