Jackie

For sure, squishing, brushing, or washing aphids will NOT give you "cooties."
Nor will they come back to suck another day.

These are safer, cheaper methods of ridding yourself of aphids than any substance you could spray on them.

Jeri

As far as I can tell from a Google and a Google Scholar search there is no dispute.

The following is a quote from one of the follow-up reviewed scientific papers which cites the original California Davis reviewed scientific paper, Salem et al. 2008 (as of today the original California Davis paper Salem et al. 2008 has been cited by 5 other scientific papers, according to Google Scholar.).

"This aphid causes rose spring dwarf disease in the USA and Chile by transferring RSDaV (Rivera and Engel 2010; Salem et al. 2008)."
http://www.iliauni.edu.ge/files/pdf/Barjadze-et-al-2011.pdf

I wouldn't touch this thread again with a 10-ft. pole.
If this starts up again, I'll just go elsewhere. I don't have time to waste on this stuff.

Jeri

And on the original subject: there exist plant parasites that spread diseases among plants which are well documented.
Search "asian citrus psyllid" or "glassy-winged sharpshooter."

http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.63226&tab=36

Glassy-winged sharpshooter DOES, but is harmful to grapes, rather than roses.
Neither is desirable, but if you have Asian citrus psyllid, you'll find it on your orange tree, not on your rose.

Hoov -- It IS soap. And it DOES kill insects -- so it is insecticidal. It's also not systemic, and I don't think it kills much of anything you don't spray it onto, so it's pretty decent stuff, if you've really got a problem.

Jeri

I think Jeri's answer to your question is excellent. (Thank you Jeri).
That is my experience with the product. The only thing I would add is a caveat. I had a learning curve about "more not being better" which is why I use the word "spritz," and a learning curve about when to apply it. Because the aphids only seem interested in tender new growth and the bud stems from the abscission point, too much or bad timing can 'burn' that tender growth. As for timing, I've learned that either very early before the heat of the day or late after the heat of the day works well. The perfect time is a couple of hours before it rains which here is like saying "when the goose lays the golden egg" because I live in the Sunshine State.

The ladybud topic.
A friend recently said: "I moved to Florida in October and thought I'd found Paradise, then July came and I thought I was in Hell." The ladybugs I've observed in my garden when they visit relentlessly search around on clean leaves and stems of other plants like they're blind. I've gone days without using the soap and they continue to walk around on the clean stuff while the aphids are getting fat. I chalk it up to Florida.

Spraying.
I quit spraying years ago too. I've raised swallowtail cats already this year on my fennel. I see butterflies every day except in the winter; hummingbirds have visited every day for part of the year the last two years and bees of various types abound (some I had never known to exist). Dragonflies frequent my garden. And the platoons of anoles and the visiting garter snakes deter none of them or me. I have mourning doves, cardinals, finches, and mockingbirds and lots of worms. Last year finally spiders arrived to join in the helpful hunt. And I am probably forgetting others right now.
I've used the insecticidal soap for years now and can attest it has no adverse effects except on the targets.

I wish you had reported that there were dead little aphids on the roses instead of "not...to be found."
I started using the insecticidal soap because of a memory from childhood. Our nextdoor neighbor was a farmer although the farm was about a mile away on a couple of acres where he sold his own produce roadside. Anyway, he died and his wife told me that the doctor had said that the cancer was probably due to inhaling pesticide for all of those years. True enough it was probably DDT in those days, but for me it was a lesson. And I'm glad that there are alternatives in some cases like the soap on the aphids. I still have to use powerful pesticide on the fire ants because nothing else works.

I truly believe that spraying generally creates additional problems that require more spraying in a never ending cycle.

Aphids aren't really the big problem though, it's thrips. Wow are they thick out there! Everytime I step outside they bite me. Blah. Can't wait till that dies down. Seems like the thrips came in waves last year before finally dying down. I'm glad at least that they didn't ruin the first round of flowers (like they did last year). I do believe they've come around at about the same time, but the early start to spring helped give my garden a headstart.

(p.s. I hope that all made sense. I have a wicked cold. lol)

I don't go around afterwards looking for carcasses. I wonder if anyone's done any kind of research on whether adding anything else to the water makes it any more effective than just plain water?

I know this works in Illinois.....but I also have seen how critters get bigger the further south you go. I'm thinking that by the time a person gets to Florida, it's possible that the aphids have drivers' licenses. Seriously---how do you gardeners in Florida manage? I'd freak out.

I'm really laughing now, thinking of this....So, if I want to eat sugar off my sidewalk but it keeps attracting ants, I should put a bigger pile of sugar out there? hehehe

Other than some bad nematodes I zapped some years back I have never had bug infestation that were a disaster, well maybe potato bugs but back in the seventies, an Ivy that has been on the house longer than I have been alive was infested, it looked like red paint, with mites.

No one especially cared for the ivy so I took some Black Flag and gave it a goos blast.
The ivy looked like it had a bad hang-over for a good chunk of the rest of the year but I did not see another mite until about five years ago.

The ivy is doing just fine.

Author affiliation: WAITE AGRIC. RES. INST., UNIV. ADELAIDE, ADELAIDE, S. AUST.

Published in: Entomologia Experimentalis et Applicata, volumn 37, pages 129-136, (1985).

Abstract: "Dynamic aspects of the chemical relation between the rose aphid [Macrosiphum rosae] and rose buds.In warm weather, M. rosae (L.) walks off buds of hybrid tea roses during a critical period coinciding with the opening of the sepals. This behavior could not be related to histologically detectable barriers to feeding, nor to changes in the water content of the tissues or in their composition with respect to total soluble carbohydrate, amino nitrogen or phenolic compounds; major changes in tissue chemistry, effected by spraying the bushes with urea, did not affect the time at which the aphids left the buds. Tissue sap expressed from stems and sepals showed a significant increase in catechin content after, rather than during, the critical period. Once expressed, however, sap from buds at the critical stage showed a sharp in vitro rise in catechin content over a few hours, up to levels approximating those against which the insects discriminated in choice tests. The insects could well be sensitive to a developing capacity of tissue to accumulated catechin, possibly in response to their feeding activity."
--------------------------------------------
Title: "Interactions among convergent lady beetle (Hippodamia convergens) releases, aphid populations, and rose cultivar"

Authors: Mary Louise Flint(a),Steve H. Dreistadt(b)

Authors affiliation:
a Department of Entomology, University of California, Davis, CA 95616, USA
b IPM Education and Publications, Statewide IPM Program, University of California, Davis, CA 95616-8620, USA

Published in: Biological Control, Volume 34, Issue 1, July 2005, Pages 38�46.

Abstract: "Release of adult convergent lady beetles, Hippodamia convergens Gu�rin-M�neville (Coleoptera: Coccinellidae), provided inundative control of aphids (Homoptera: Aphididae) infesting Rosa hybrida outdoors in nursery containers and in the landscape. In potted roses, a single release of 100 lady beetles per 19 liter plant provided 66�88% aphid control during 1994 and 1995. In the landscape, a single release of about 175 or 350 lady beetles per 0.5�1 m tall shrub during 1994, 1995, and 2002 failed to reduce aphid density. However, each of one or two subsequent releases of about 1400�1750 H. convergens per shrub reduced aphid densities in the landscape to near zero (93�100% control). Releasing 10�20 beetles per flower bud controlled aphids on shoots caged to prevent insect dispersal. On uncaged rose shoots, 100 or more H. convergens per bud were required to control aphids. The effective rate for inundative release in landscape roses was about 2300 beetles/m2 (210/ft2) of shrub-covered surface, or two orders of magnitude greater than the 11�22 beetles/m2 (1�2/ft2) commonly recommended by beetle sellers. Based on three lady beetle releases during April�May when aphids are abundant on rose in California�s Central Valley, lady beetle costs are about the same as one soil drench of the systemic insecticide imidacloprid. Rose cultivar affected aphid density, but cultivar did not affect augmentative predation. Cultivar selection and high-rate predator release are complimentary strategies for aphid management on rose."

Aphids
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/03235408.2011.587290

Thrips
http://openagricola.nal.usda.gov/Record/IND44014171

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/esa/envent/1983/00000012/0000000 5/art00034

link for article with suppliers listed
http://www.hort.uconn.edu/ipm/general/htms/pirbug.htm

Jeri

This week the aphids showed up in my garden and so did the ladybugs. It always seems to work out that way.

I just wish there was a known predator for rose curculios.

Smiles,
Lyn

Hmm, sounds like just what we need in Florida Mr. Kuska. No disrespect but we've already got mosquitoes by the swarm and biting gnats galore.

I'm not importing these. NO WAY. Plus, Iowa State says that they are active in the summer. I need parasitic controls in the spring and fall.

Appreciate the effort, of course.

As for the folks who feel that they must post that they DON'T have a problem, OR are UNCONCERNED about it being a potential problem. Fine, but why must it be said?
IF your experience changes in future, I hope I still have my memory.

And I realised that some of those I described in my comment, have parasites of their own.

Rose Curculios:

The Oregon State University link for Pacific Northwest Nursery Integrated Pest Management: http://oregonstate.edu/dept/nurspest/rose_curculio_weevil.htm

refers one to: http://www.sactorose.org/ipm/84rosecurculios.htm

Interestingly, the advice for control there is "soapy water." Hmm.

AND thrips:

The University of California at Davis, see link below, lists as one of the control methods "...insecticidal soaps ... effective for temporary reduction of thrips populations if applied when thrips are present and damage first appears...."

I don't think I need to state the obvious deduction, DO I?

As usual, I've been attempting to help others. I could keep my knowledge and experience to myself. I'm certainly often tempted to do so given the behaviors of numerous individuals on these forums (as in driven not only nearly out of my mind by some of the responses I get but also driven away from sharing here). I think Kim has a wonderful quote about knowledge and sharing it. On the other hand, history teaches us how Galileo and others suffered for voicing their knowledge and that Da Vinci and others kept silent from those lessons. I'm certainly no Galileo, but the point is that we, modern folk, somehow know that "civilized" people wouldn't do such things, don't we? - even though the perpetrators then were the most civilized folk of their era.

OK. I will never respond to any of your threads in the future.

Smiles,
Lyn

Surprisingly, my roses flourished and bloomed overwinter in my basement. However, they have aphids and mites. I read online to mix a couple Tbsp.s dish soap in a gallon of H2o, spray that on, then wait a few hours & spray with water. I did that, but the next day I looked and there were still aphids. Now what? Do I need to buy a special insecticidal soap?
Thank you,
Kitty

I buy it.
The mostly forgotten gardening advisor, Jerry Baker, had a "recipe" for make it yourself insecticidal soap. I haven't tried it so I can't say.
I keep hoping that someone with a chemistry background will give us a REALLY SIMPLE homemade fix. If I understand correctly, the functionality is provided by a "soap" film layer left on the insects as the formulation dries. Insects "breathe" through their "skin" and the film layer smothers them. (The chemistry thing is about the soap to use or mix because there are bar soaps, laundry, dish, etc. all with different properties).
I don't like to make endorsements primarily because manufacturers seem overly anxious to change their products. In my experience this often results in reduced effectiveness or ruin. An unrelated analogy would be the "brilliant" marketing strategy of improving Coca-Cola which the market actually rejected out of hand. So, if I were to endorse a product here now that product might not be the same in 6 months. The UC-Davis thrip management discussion which I've linked above as "Pests in Gardens and Landscapes" gives the brand name of the product they tested though.

I get aphids. I spray with water. I have no more aphids.

If it didn't work, I'd state that as well.

What I'd read on here previously about soaps is that basically, their efficacy comes from the slippery quality of soap.

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/roses/msg030010308429.html

The link below suggests that it may be worth trying:

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1519-566X20030 00400017

As usual, I do not mean to be rude and this isn't directed AT you, flaurabunda, just in response to your post for clarification purposes.

1. I did not ask anyone to share their observations.
Where exactly did you find that statement? <= That question, by the way, is a rhetorical one - no need to reply.
2. Would you have Kitty hose down her basement? <= also rhetorical
3. You clearly have mistaken my humility for a lack of certainty. The phrase "if I understand correctly" is polite. I DO understand it correctly. Slippery quality has nothing to do with it.
4. LASTLY for this thread, there is a vast difference between repeating something and knowing something.

If Kitty wants to hose her basement down that's her prerogative, but I'd suggest she move out any of her electronics first and wear some waders. I guess I should have made that clear to Kitty first. Sorry, Kitty, if you flooded your basement before taking those precautions. Call me, I know a good water-removal company.

Good one, Mike!

"Overall, these results indicate treatment of Z. elegans with soluble silicon provides a modest increase in resistance levels to M. persicae, which may be caused in part by defense-related compounds."