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merlcat

For those of you in the Northeast, don't let this happen to you..

merlcat
10 years ago

I go into each gardening season with such high hopes. Most of my tiny roses are still doing okay. Even my new waxed cheapies that I painstakinly tried to de-wax and pot up are doing great. The ones that I planted last year are even coming back in bits, despite their wax hell. I am really trying and always have high hopes to do my best..

But, ugh. Pinellia ternata.

I need to get Pat Austin in the ground. Been in a pot for years. I so badly want to put her in this one spot, but that area is so overrun with Pinellia ternata that I can't in good conscience dig a hole and dump her in. It would kill me to see that crap grow up around her.

I have to dig up the whole 6 by 7 or so triangle and get all the bulbs out. They are so tiny, I'm afraid if I miss just one they will just go deeper. I hate to replace all the dirt as I don't think I can really afford to do it, and I hate discarding what is there. It is so soft and workable, I've not walked on it for years and tried my best to make it better each year. Crap. no wonder the Pinellia got a hold.

This is going to be a big project. i just did the same thing in my grass strip. I needed to reseed. Dug the whole thing up, pulled out crabgrass runners, clover root systems and way more pinellia than I knew was there. Reseeded two days ago. Now I have to do it all over again to just plant my rosebush. The seeds and pinellia bulblets are so tiny, I swear I will go blind and old trying to get rid of them all. Last year when I figured out what they were and really started to go after them I was amazed at how BIG the main bulbs were, and how quick they must have grown. But the small ones, they are super sneaky.

Pat really needs to go in the ground. I'm so anal. I want her there, want the damn pinellia out.

Never let this into your garden, folks. I keep watching the invasive plant website and it is moving it's way across the northeast.

It has made gardening terrible. I'm afraid to transplant or divide anything for fear of spreading them to uninfected areas. My once blank canvass that I have been growing for years has become a mess because of it.

I'd rather have Goutweed. Ha! I thought that was bad. At least you can see and follow the runners, and roundup kills what little you may miss with just a swab of it on a q-tip.

Last year I dethatched a new bed and dumped all of it as well as what little topsoil I couldn't get off in heavy plastic bags. I was experimenting on trying to compost the grass and weeds by starving them of light. It has been over a year as of this month. I opened one up and guess what the only living thing in there was.

Yep. Pinellia ternata.

I am doomed.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pinellia ternata

Comments (17)

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    10 years ago

    I'm wondering if this would possibly work for your bed -- lay down sheets of cardboard, and cover with a couple inches of mulch and/or compost. Wait a couple months for the plants underneath to be smothered. When the cardboard has softened enough that you can dig through it, plop your rose in the bed.

    This wouldn't work if the weed has spread among areas that are already planted, though. In that case, consider what I've read here -- using the "gloves of death." Put surgical gloves on, followed by some sort of absorbent cotton-like glove. Soak your gloved hands in Round-Up and rub all the leaves of the weeds. This will avoid spray-damage to nearby desired plants.

    If I can think of something else later, I'll throw you more ideas. Sorry for your dilemma.

    :-(

    ~Christopher

  • merlcat
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Thanks for the reply, Christopher.

    Just came back in for coffee, I sure need it.

    Unfortunately, an "established" bed. Sort of. Some lilies, a small red maple, irises, violets and a mini rose or three. The others are pretty much the same with perennials and such. The one uninfected area so far can be planted this year and I am confident they are not there yet. I think this problem got out of control due to leaf blowing. The Manic Mower always started leaf blowing in that corner and moved out, keeping that area clean, but spreading the seeds of death more into the planted beds from where they first showed up. Or so I imagine. This particular area I have wanted to change for two years but was unable because of the number of these plants.

    I guess I should have dug up what I could and covered it last year but I didn't. Silly me. :(

    Last year I dug, but also had "control groups" that I treated with roundup. I am not in favor of the stuff, but I was totally desperate. I did the gloved method and they were totally unaffected. Someone suggested trying to roughen the leaf surface, so I took a little piece of sandpaper and broke the surface, then re-treated. Some dieback, but they still seemed able to form the bulblets at the base of the stems. I read to "neuter" the plants and removed all of those little bulblets that I could.

    One area I was able to spray full force and I am still waiting to see if they emerge this year. They were under a wood stem, very shaded, so I have not seen them pop yet, though not sure if they would have yet, either.

    I have collected some of the bulbs I dug up this year and I am going to pot them in three groups.

    One, to cut the leaves off repeatedly.

    Two, roundup.

    Three, roundup w/ sanding.

    I'll unpot them in the fall and see if the roundup killed the bulbs, and if the leaf cutting prohibited them from sprouting bulblets on the bases of the stems. certainly, i will not allow these to go to seed.

    I just now after my initial post dug up what may be the remains of a main bulb. Hopefully that means last years painstaking sanding of leaves and stroking on the round up did indeed kill the mother bulb. First I have seen like that though. At least if I test them in a pot this year and dig just them up I will know for sure.

    I'm just seeing them starting to poke thru the surface, so I am not sure how well the roundup worked last year. I should know soon as they pop. Hopefully the numbers in other areas are lower. We'll see. God knows I sure have more than enough for all the painstaking work I did last year. I've been picking the seeds and bulblets off the surface of know areas for two months already, so I am sure there is no lack of new plants waiting to take the place of those killed anyway.

  • seil zone 6b MI
    10 years ago

    I had never heard of this one before. Thank you for the warning. I will keep my eyes peeled for it.

    My suggestion would be to take an old window screen with a fine mesh in it and sift the soil you dig out. It's slow and tedious work but it does get out a lot of the tiny stuff. This is what we did when we dug the new bed out of the lawn. I was worried about having a mess of grass growing up around the roses. This method got out all the grass roots and I haven't had any problems. Makes the soil nice and fluffy too!

  • merlcat
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Yep, Seil, I am headed that way. Every hand spade full contains them. I have a 1/4 inch sifter that I built when I did my rock garden. I used a window screen on the areas with the teeny tiny star of bethlehem bulbs. Totally painstaking, I agree. I think that I will not rest till this bed is done just like that. Only window screen will get rid of them.

    I had no clue what this stuff was when I saw the first plant.

    It was interesting and I watched it for a year, but it took me two more to id it correctly. I swear to you, the first time I figured it out and looked at this map, it was in a tiny portion of NJ/NYC. And, that was not too long ago.

    http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=pite

    I could kick myself for not identifying it sooner. I even had pictures and just blew off posting it here.

    So that is MY biggest garden mistake, bar none.

    I know this thread is so not about roses, but I love this forum and just want all of you to be aware that it is spreading RAPIDLY. And I care about you all. I really, really do. Don't let it get a jump on you.

    There is so little info about it. What I do read is negative. Even the Aroid folk warn about planting and allowing this specific one to spread. That's saying something.

    Oh, and I could give two farts that it is a precious Chinese herbal medicine. I know that is mean-spirited, and I hate myself a little for admitting it. I am truly a lover of all plants, everything has it's place and there is beauty in everything. But, I am seeing this get established before my eyes in Philadelphia. I am seeing it up and down the block, at my parents neighbors place, around town, etc.. All in just a couple years. I can't advocate planting and/or not removing something so invasive.

    Keep your eyes open. It is bad news.

    Here is a link that might be useful: USDA Plant Profile Map

  • mad_gallica (z5 Eastern NY)
    10 years ago

    It is in the public garden I volunteer at. It has been there forever, and is commonly known as the 'evil weed'. We fought it for about 20 years before getting an ID. As you have found out, knowing what it is doesn't help.

    Because it is a bulb, it has enormous stores of energy. Round Up kills the top growth, but apparently has little effect on the bulb. It does seem that it can be exhausted, but the only time we have really been able to put a dent in it was through a year long scorched earth policy. The area was covered in cardboard, and anything that dared show its head above ground was hit with Round Up. That did seem to kill at least 90% of it.

    The bulblets are small enough that sifting isn't effective. When it first shows up in a bed, repeated attacks with an asparagus fork can keep it under control. I have many, many plants from that garden in my home garden, and it can be kept out.

  • Campanula UK Z8
    10 years ago

    yah, various nurseries are selling this in the UK - the cheap price really ought to give the game away (they are selling to all those arisaema fans who are accustomed to paying large sums for those odd little aroids).
    Interesting to see no mention of their thuggish persistence - thanks for the heads up, Merlcat - we are establishing a woodland garden (a steep learning curve for me) and I totally appreciate the warning.

  • catspa_NoCA_Z9_Sunset14
    10 years ago

    Momentary panic when I saw it recorded as being in California on the USDA map. Turns out to be one instance recorded in 1935 in San Francisco's Golden Gate Park.

    Not that we are scot-free. Here it is Italian arum, which has similar behavior: tons of little bulbs, impossible to eradicate, forms large, smothering, impenetrable masses that grow exponentially from year to year, etc. Substantial amounts of it in my mother's back yard. Even worse is seeing it on the banks of San Mateo Creek in Hillsborough as an escape from someone's garden -- or dumped there with garden debris. There goes the ecosystem... Sold as an ornamental, of course.

    Debbie

  • merlcat
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Well, spent till dark fighting the good fight. Digging away, hand spade by hand spade.

    Each shovel was looked thru on a big white plastic bag. Where there is one there are always two.. probably more.

    All dirt was moved into a bucket. I'm going to keep doing this till I have done this bed. I'm going to remove what plants I can and rinse the roots. I know I can't get them from in the stand of tall iris, and I don't want to damage my Maple tree, as I grew it from a seed and it is almost my height now.

    I am going to try and screen the soil best I can and re-fill w/ this and garden soil. It's at least worth a shot.

    Mad_Gallica, I totally agree that knowing what it is doesn't help! I can't believe that it has been up your way for that long. I have never, ever seen it before, yet I have been told on many occasions I am extremely observant of things. I have begun to see it everywhere now.

    My method last year: long, thick screwdrivers, used to get between perennial roots and deep under the stands of bulbs. I'd pry a bit and then get my gloved hand underneath somehow and discard the whole lot filled with bulbs. Needless to say I have lots of low spots now. Oh, and I lost several screwdrivers that way too. LOL! Borrowed my moms metal detector twice to try and find 'em. Unsuccessfully, BTW.

    I just told Dear Boyfriend that they would turn up come fall or winter! PFT!

    I'll have to look into adding an asparagus fork to the arsenal.

    Camp, I'd stay clear of these for sure. So many better choices out there.

    Catspa, how did you find the reference to the 1935 thing? Was it somehow on that site?

    I know, it's sad to see escapees like that. I don't envy your plight either. I've been hesitant to dispose of these things myself. I imagine a landfill topped with fields of Pinelllia! But honestly, I see no other way than to bag them up in recycled grocery bags (always check for holes in the bag first!!) and send them to the city dump. I keep reading they regenerate from rhizomes, too, and root systems, but I think it is the bulbs only. I try and not leave any roots behind, but they are short and don't break too easily. Either way, I'm afraid of squashing them and trying to compost. No Way!! They are so prolific I can only imagine every squashed bulb producing multiple, mutant squash-up shaped new bulbs. SHUDDER!

    I only gave away one tub of Black eyed susans last year to the across the street neighbor, for fear of spreading them. I took hers from a "safe" spot and tried to go thru the roots for signs of it. Before I gave them to her I called her over to point out the nasty stuff and give her the run down to be extra careful if she sees anything like it pop up near the BES's. My due diligence, I guess. Best I could do.

  • floridarosez9 Morgan
    10 years ago

    I have the exact same problem with the lavender blooming oxalis. It also has little bulblets that are impossible to kill. It has spread into all my beds but one and has now invaded the lawn.

  • catspa_NoCA_Z9_Sunset14
    10 years ago

    Merlcat,

    By clicking on the state abbreviations under the USDA map (if they are clickable, not all of them are), you get a map showing the counties it has been recorded in for that particular state. West Virginia, for example, only has it recorded in one county.

    For CA, it shows only San Francisco, but then I can either go to the Consortium of University Herbaria or Calflora sites (both use roughly the same database), and see what, exactly, are the herbarium records for the species. California, having both extensive herbaria and being the "promised land" for both exotic species and rare, endemic natives, has multiple web resources for looking up actual accession records for plant taxa. From the accession record, I can see that it was only collected once, by Eric Walther on May 1, 1935, in Golden Gate Park. It's a relief that it apparently has not been collected again, anywhere, in CA. (Doesn't mean it's NOT here, of course -- what a thought, I will now be keeping my eyes alert, thanks to you.)

    I'm impressed by your efforts! Keep up the good fight -- persistence and multiple strategies are key.

    (Should add that for California, of course, I can just go straight to the Calflora or Herbaria websites with the species name. The USDA site facilitates the search by indicating there IS a record available. You can check to see if your state's accession records for herbaria can be searched.)

    Debbie

    This post was edited by catspa on Sun, Apr 21, 13 at 21:49

  • kittymoonbeam
    10 years ago

    I am trying to fight an unknown bulb weed by removing soil, spreading it out on a plastic tarp and covering it with mulch. I water and when the things sprout, I can easily get them out by sifting. They cant get into the soil below. I am trying to grow any left in the soil and then I will put that clean soil in a different place. The place with the tarp is keeping the bulbs in that part of the soil from getting light so maybe some will die by the time I get there. What about pouring boiling water in a hole to kill off some of them? That worked for me when I had most of the big ones out and just little ones were left. I'm sorry you have to spend precious time on this.

  • madeleine_02
    10 years ago

    I live in Philadelphia. When I moved into this house, I saw a few "interesting" plants in the former garden beds and didn't think anything about them. Two years later, I was overrun to the point where the plants I wanted were being crowded out.

    mericat, you are a hero! Wow. I hope your determination pays off the way you want it to.

    This year I decided to dig out all those little corms one section of my garden at a time. I spent hours on my hands and knees, and for nothing. In just a few weeks, new sprouts from seeds that had been sitting in the soil sprouted.

    I have moved big rocks in my garden only to find the pinellas I hoped to suffocate still there and growing vigorously after two years! The only difference is lack of color, which they quickly regain.

    I spoke with a professional gardener friend of mine. He told me the only thing that will keep it under control (not eradicate) is an over the counter spray designed to kill poison ivy.

    Even using the spray, there are problems: 1/ there are literally hundreds of tiny seeds and corms in the soil that have yet to sprout so one good spray wonâÂÂt get rid of the future generations 2/ these plants are so hardy that often one application wonâÂÂt do it. You need to go back after a couple weeks to reapply.

    I intend to keep after them with the spray. for me, digging them out was thankless and futile. IâÂÂve thrown my organic principles to the wind and will use the spray if thatâÂÂs what takes to save my garden.

  • shadberry23
    6 years ago

    Well, I have this in spades and have had it for 20 years. I have 4 beds for organic vegetables and the P.T. loves it. Now it is everywhere - all over the yard. I will never get rid of it but I still get lots of vegetables and flowers and just live with it. I pull the tops frequently but miss a lot and that is that. I have a large garden with pinellia ternata. It will certainly last longer than I do.

  • summersrhythm_z6a
    6 years ago

    Thanks for the warning. Don't have that yet, but I have something worse that that, and I don't know how to kill it, it's all over 1 rose garden. I have been pulling it out every chance I got. Any ideas how to kill this?

  • KarenPA_6b
    6 years ago

    That is variegated vinca major, Summers. Wow, I did not know that it spreads that much for you. I bought it from the nursery 4 years ago because I thought it was so pretty. It has not been invasive for me. It has stayed pretty tame so far but it is in rather deep deep shade.

    Well, I don't have Pinellia ternata, but i may have just as bad or worse weeds. Does anyone know how to get rid of mugwort, pennywort, and chameleon plants? Pennywort with the bulbous runners is the worst weed that I have ever encountered.

  • summersrhythm_z6a
    6 years ago

    Water weeder is too much work for 1 weed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jSodj7w7SQ

    Flame weeder is too dangerous: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOmI0DteNW8 

    Any other ideas Sam?

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