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Amending Soil for New Rose Garden, Etc.

Posted by TheMadGardner none (My Page) on
Mon, Apr 16, 12 at 16:14

Hi all! After a long, long wait, I am finally getting the opportunity this year to work on putting a rose garden in at my house! The garden's location will be on the east-facing side of my house. It seems to get great morning and early afternoon light and late afternoon and evening shade. I presently have two rose bushes that grow there in relative happiness.

The particular bed that I am using was mostly filled with chameleon plants, which I am still in the process of digging up and throwing in the trash (and spraying with Round-up and cussing at because they are so stubborn to kill... I hate those horrid plants!). Because of having to dig out all the chameleon plant, I am essentially scrapping the existing plants, tilling the whole thing, and starting it anew (with the exception of the two existing rose bushes, which I am going to try to save from the chameleon plant massacre). So I have four questions for you, my gardening friends...

1. What do you think would be a good way to amend the soil in the bed for roses? Presently, the soil has a lot of clay in it in places and it looks like the previous owners of my house may have amended some locations in it by mixing it with potting soil at some point. Also, I plan on planting hybrid tea roses in it, if that makes a difference.

2. The roses that are presently in the area have had some issues with black spot in the past. I hypothesized that this was caused by the moisture and shade held close to ground by the chameleon plants, coupled with improper spacing (I'm going to re-space the existing bushes in the bed rennovation). Is there anything I can do when I amend the soil to help control for latent black spot spores?

3. Since I am spraying Round-up everywhere and trying to erradicate the chameleon plant, how long do you think I should wait after the erradication before planting the rose bushes?

4. Any recommendations on hybrid tea roses that prefer an east-facing facade?

Answers to any of the questions will be greatly appreciated. Happy gardening!


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Amending Soil for New Rose Garden, Etc.

I hope you're being extremely cautious about not getting any Roundup on your existing roses! Also, probably the best thing you can do to prevent diseases on your new roses is to pick varieties that are resistant in your area.


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RE: Amending Soil for New Rose Garden, Etc.

Yes, I have been crazy careful about not hitting the existing roses with Round-up. I won't spray anywhere near them! Thanks for the tips!


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RE: Amending Soil for New Rose Garden, Etc.

Can you tell us where you (and your garden) are located? Quite often advice depends on average temperatures, humidity, etc for a specific location.

All of my roses are on either the south or east side of my house.

I can't tell you about the Round Up---we no longer use it because no matter how careful my husband thought he was, it had some negative effects on unintended victim plants. I couldn't get comfortable with any degree of safety & his use of Round Up.


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RE: Amending Soil for New Rose Garden, Etc.

Clay is not a bug, it's a feature. Just don't work it or tread on it when it is wet--that can do long-term damage to the soil structure. Dig in 3" of decayed organic matter to the areas that have not already been amended. Horticultural scientists today recommend digging the whole planting area to the depth of 10-12" and amending it uniformly, rather than preparing heavily amended holes. The latter can impede the movement of roots and water.

Don't dig in superphosphate. According to links recently posted by Henry Kuska, excess phosphate can lead to release of Round Up in the soil and its uptake by plants. Check the pH. If soil is alkaline, add a carefully measured dose of sulfur aiming to adjust pH to around 6.0-6.5.


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RE: Amending Soil for New Rose Garden, Etc.

Well, I'll tell you where I live, flarabunda, if you promise not to stalk me. ;o) I'm in the Ohio River Valley, North Central Kentucky, USDA Plant Hardiness Zone 6B. Weather pattern typically is as follows:
1. Mild, rainy spring from Mar - mid-May; May - June weather varies from warm to hot, but still stormy.
2. Hot summers from June - Sept. Humid as all get out 90% of the time. Solid rain showers about once a week through mid-Aug. Dry and drought prone thereafter.
3. Early fall is usually hot, but rapidly drops to mild by mid-Oct. Mild to cold through mid-Dec. Very dry and drought prone fall.
4. Mild to cold winter. Some snowfall, typically in Jan or Feb, with Feb being the coldest, most snowy month. Periods of freezing temps are not uncommon in Jan or Feb.

The joke here is that it will be 80 degrees one day and snowing the next, which I've actually seen happen a time or two. The last few years, the weather has been really off track though. Springs have provided rain deluges, summers have been abnormally hot, falls have been abnormally hot, and winters have been mild.


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RE: Amending Soil for New Rose Garden, Etc.

michaelg knows this stuff backwards and forwards.

I have been using compost and spagnum peat moss, and a little lime if things are too acid (the peat moss is acid, too). There are 'recipes' online about lime and which kind to get, how much to use, etc. Your soil may be alkaline. I don't know alkaline where I live :D

I use a bit of woods dirt in every hole, an old trick from my grandmother. We think that probably has the good microorganisms in it and already happy. Nowadays you can buy soil microorganisms if you are really into this whole soil thing :D I don't know that it's necessary, but they won't hurt anything but your wallet ;)


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RE: Amending Soil for New Rose Garden, Etc.

With clay you want to do two things, break it up so it's loose and keep it from drying out in the sun and becoming a block of concrete.

I've amended most of my beds with lots of organic material. Topsoil, Natures Miracle, Compost, Composted Manure, Peat Moss, you name it, I've put it in there. It is better to do the entire bed rather than individual holes. You have a great opportunity to do that now.

The second thing to do is after you plant the roses, you must mulch the fresh amended soil. This will help it retain water and not dry out and become hard. Leave a hole of no mulch directly under the roses, which will get larger as the roses grow. That 'hole' is where you will water and add fertilizer for the rose.

I have a few HTs. Depending on which ones you have, they will blackspot no matter what you do. It's about 90% dependent on the weather conditions. You can help by spacing them out and not letting them get too 'leafy' in the middle. But if conditions are right, they will blackspot. I would start a spraying regimen with Bayer Advanced Disease Control every two weeks. This will prevent any blackspot.

As far as RU goes, it will not affect plantings in the ground after you've sprayed.


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Potting Soil

Also, don't use potting soil. It's ok to have some in there when you transplant potted plants, but it's meant for pots, not gardens. Look for Garden Soil in the store, not potting soil.


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RE: Amending Soil for New Rose Garden, Etc.

Why don't you go to the Tenarky District website and contact some of the consulting rosarians listed there? There may be someone very close to you who can really tell you what to do for your area, or even come to your house to see what you have! Go to www.tenarky.org and click on "consulting rosarians" on the left.


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RE: Amending Soil for New Rose Garden, Etc.

I promise, no stalking. You're not terribly far from me, and we have similar climate conditions. I've found the worst problems with blackspot occur when the humidity condenses at night and the air is still. It's so thick in the air that sometimes the roses are still wet at 11 am, even with no rain having fallen for days.

I don't think your chameleon plant contributed to the blackspot--but that's just a guess. I think it's the nature of where we live. I spray BEFORE I notice blackspot getting a foothold, and that has worked better for me than spraying as a reaction to it.

One thing I know nothing about is Kentucky soil. Here in Illinois it may be alkaline at times, but it's generally pretty darn good. Just drive through our state in July and look at all the corn & beans! I really haven't found a need to amend my soil. I dig a nice hole, plant the rose, mulch it, and feed it a couple of times throughout the summer. I go for the simplest method possible, since I truly hate Rocket Science.

I totally agree with never putting potting soil in your planting hole. It doesn't compact in the same manner & I've seen a plant 'sink' when the potting soil was used to fill the hole. One thing I will mention is to fill your hole with water before you plant anything & check the runoff rate. You may be shocked at how long the water sits there with heavy clay, and not realize that just because the top inch of soil is dry that there's a TON of moisture just below the surface.


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