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| More About Mulch - see link below: |
Here is a link that might be useful: Mulch reduces soil water loss to evaporation by 33%
Follow-Up Postings:
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| And yet, everywhere I see roses here in SoCal that are not mulched. |
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| Many aren't mulched here Henry because mow/blow/goers don't put it down. They blow it away with the weed blowers. I've battled it in many places for years. In one garden on engineered soil, the only way to get the ground covers on the sloped berms around the back yard is to continually replace the mulch so there is SOME "top soil" for them to root and grow in. I repeat to the homeowners to tell the yard people NOT to blow those planters because they blow away any loose soil. Mulch isn't required in gardens which are continually watered by sprinklers, but the water use can be reduced significantly by maintaining the mulch. I've done it here for years. It takes educating the homeowner and controlling the yard maintenance people. Most of them want to "cultivate" the rose beds which is a guaranty of colonies of Dr. Huey suckers. I love mulch for many reasons. Water conservation is just one. Kim |
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| Kim, It seems that the LA Times has an article every day about how Californians waste water beginning with the wasteful agricultural industry. Here in Pasadena I would guess that over half of water used on landscaping is wasted. Aerial watering is very wasteful especially on plants like roses where I think as much as 90 percent can be wasted due to evaporation. A local prominent public rose garden which shall go un-named practices only aerial watering and does no mulching what-so-ever. |
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- Posted by Kippy-the-Hippy 10 Sunset 24 (My Page) on Tue, Apr 8, 14 at 15:35
| I just had this conversation with mom this morning If mulch saves 30% of water, most water is used In landscaping and we are requested to save 20% it only seems like an obvious thing to do. If you check under our heavily mulched garden, you would be surprised how cool and damp the soil is. But it is harder to remove every leaf and petal that falls (not the we care) but that is what mow and blow crews do. |
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| Here in Arizona it is a must!! I just put down cedar mulch today around all the roses. They are on a drip but with the heat starting up this week it is pretty much mandatory. I am in the more northern part of AZ just below Sedona and we are going to hit over 87 today through the rest of the week. Geezzzzzz |
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| It is in the 90's here today and will be through Thursday and many of the roses are in full bloom. I don't think any amount of aerial watering would be enough. I'm running my drip systems at least four hours every day. |
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| I mulch, and I'm in southern California! Me me me! Just don't judge me by the front JUST yet as I am still finishing up the back beds. It takes me from the end of February to the end of June to get it done. |
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| The time to mulch in SoCal is right after doing the December-January pruning. Now with the roses so big mulching would be very difficult. Beginning in late December I pruned everything, checked and repaired the drip system and put down another layer of mulch. |
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| How very nice for you. Things around my place get done when they get done. |
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| mulch is horrible. Nasty brown stuff (and worse). Why would I want this when it is covering a space I can plant something instead? I am mystified by the many American gardens - what seem like odd plants, separated by acres of mulch. Bizarre. There is no visible soil anywhere in my gardens....and if there was, it would be colonised immediately by either weeds (which I may or may not bother removing since they are frequently just little annuals such as nigella, nemophilia, limnanthes) or selected plants such as little phlox, bulbs, geraniums, alchemilla and so on). So, mulch, pros and cons - saves water I do use mulch - vast amounts of my lovely compost - around my fruit bushes, base of fruit trees, around certain vegetables and anywhere the soil is regularly dug, disturbed or generally worked over. Just not in with roses, perennials, bulbs and such ornamentals. |
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| Why try to keep weeds down if weeds actually keep soil moist? I have been thinking that weeds take water and nutrients that roses need. It does seem that under weeds the soil is often moist, but I am not sure the weeds cause that or the moist soil enables the weeds. I have noticed that rose roots can stretch right under grass paths..the grass doesn't seem to hinder growth at all. One good thing about mulch is that it can define the shape of a bed. I guess a plant could do that too, if you had all one kind. I guess it's a matter of taste whether the long sweeping lines matter more or you want to use all available space to grow individual plants. |
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- Posted by socks12345 Zone 9 (My Page) on Fri, Apr 11, 14 at 11:25
| I've had that same thought, Erasmus--that weeds like oxalis (ugh) and others could possibly hold moisture in the soil. But we don't like the look of weeds, most people (except Campanula and others for sure) like the look of a mulched garden. I mulched heavily this week with something called "forest mulch," much chunkier than used before. The weeds it keeps down saves me a lot of work. Less watering too. I am going to put in a patch of thyme as a little groundcover (in lieu of weeds). |
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- Posted by pat_bamaZ7 7 (My Page) on Fri, Apr 11, 14 at 11:29
| I mulch all of my beds. It keeps things warmer in winter, cooler in summer, conserves water, somewhat cuts down on weeds, over time helps to amend my red clay and gives a boundary so things don’t accidently get mowed over. A ground cover would serve most of the same purposes, but my DH likes having a "lawn" and wants a definite distinction between lawn and garden. I would prefer much less lawn and a more natural flow between the weeds we call our grass and my flower beds, but haven't yet won that debate. Like DrPekeMom, my mulching gets done when it gets done. I may not always get it down at the most opportune time, but there is residual mulch in the beds and that which falls naturally to help until I can replenish. Over winter, I pile mulch in an area that I add to and take from as I have time to gather and distribute it, and then when it has almost all been used, we disc the leftover into the soil in that area and plant our summer vegetables there.
Sometimes I have help spreading the mulch
But most of the time, I just have overseers
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| Ha, I am not at all surprised you have loads of mulch - look at all that space! I swear, I started gardening in 36 square metres and have a terrible squeezing and squashing habit of jamming in as much as possible. However, thinking a bit more clearly, at my bigger allotment, I do use an ornamental mulch (gravel) in my 'scree' bed where I quickly discovered the major advantage of mulching. Having somewhere to step between plants. This is the single worst nightmare in my garden - I am forced to do some dreadful grovelling, crawling, even flailing about with telescopic things (and crap eyesight, disaster).....have trodden and mangled too many plants to count - just this afternoon, one of my precious delphiniums, crushed to pulp by my gigantic boots. It is a race to weed (on my toes, bending over for bloody hours. Of course, while I can actually get to the weeds in the gravel, it is a massive 'mare to weed since my trusty hoe is a fail. Gardening - a massive negotiation between dreams and reality! |
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| I have to mulch any bare areas otherwise they'd bake in the sun into cement. I do try to plant ground cover where I can so I don't need to mulch so much. But I do love a rose bed with fresh mulch. I feel like it sets off the pretty roses. |
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| All that good soil which I too had in CT but don't have here in SoCal came from many years of mulching. Weeds wouldn't even grow in the soil I found when we came here. |
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- Posted by ken-n.ga.mts 7a/7b (My Page) on Sat, Apr 12, 14 at 9:39
| Like buford, I have to mulch. Any bare ground will turn into solid red brick. In my yard it is garden area's mulched or grass. |
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| When I moved here in July 2011, my front garden bed was rock hard with inch granite gravel mixed in to a depth of about 6 inches in places. NOT my driveway, my flower bed.... No moisture, no worms, no weeds, but also no anything else!! A shovel penetrated about 1/2 an inch before it either quit on me or hit a rock. No hole digging was possible without massive outlay of water over many days (aka artificial rain storm) and the ground is sloped, so would run off if turned on too hard. I laid down cardboard, some manure, some potting soil, put in my plants and dumped 4 or 5 bags of bark mulch down. Now, heading in to the summer 2014, I CAN dig, I have worms everywhere, and my dirt is improving enormously. I have a soaker hose threaded under the mulch, and I keep the mulch topped up. I will eventually put in a drip system, but I need to do my research first, so I don't waste my pennies. Mulch may not be beautiful in and of itself, but it's beautiful in what it represents (to me!) - less frequent watering (lower bill keeps hubs happier, plus we're on restrictions), easier digging (arthritis in my hands makes things painful), healthier soil (those WORMS), and healthier and happier plants. It's a benefit to our gardens out here on the very dry West Coast. |
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| Absolutely, Minflick! Nature does the same to build soil. Taking our cues from her nearly always results in the best lessons. Kim |
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| Pat I love the pictures of your helpers and watchers!! I use mulch, in Texas it gets incredible hot and sometimes very dry in the summer. Sometimes even to the point of having burning/watering restrictions of various sorts. This year I got two huge truckloads of mulch free from a local tree company. Many tree trimming companies mulch the trimmings into their trucks and then give it away so they don't have to pay to dump it. It was good mulch too, and delivered to my driveway. |
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- Posted by redribbons none (My Page) on Wed, Apr 16, 14 at 19:29
| I use mulch for several reasons. With the high heat here, periods of drought, and weeds, mulch is a must for my large rose garden. I also think it looks very nice and neat. I am putting down my mulch tomorrow. |
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- Posted by Kippy-the-Hippy 10 Sunset 24 (My Page) on Wed, Apr 16, 14 at 22:14
| We use a lot of mulch |
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- Posted by Kippy-the-Hippy 10 Sunset 24 (My Page) on Wed, Apr 16, 14 at 22:15
| a lot a lot of it |
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- Posted by Kippy-the-Hippy 10 Sunset 24 (My Page) on Wed, Apr 16, 14 at 22:16
| Hmm a whole lotta lotta of it...... |
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| camp, the big problem with having little plants instead of mulch is that in the six or more months of summer here you will have little brown dead plants. There's not enough water to water these plants and the roses and without water they will last a week at most. Different climates make a huge difference in what you can and cannot do. Ingrid |
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| Small, immature plants have small, immature, shallow root systems which dry out and fry quickly and easily where there is no rain combined with aridity, winds and extreme heat. Not pot bound, one gallon seedlings in moisture control potting soil, clustered together to shade each other's pots, only receiving three to four hours of direct sun are requiring thorough watering every other day right now. And, it's not even "HOT" yet! Kim |
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- Posted by Sidos-House 7 NC (My Page) on Fri, Apr 18, 14 at 8:28
| I, too, use mulch to help improve my soil. Each year I cover last year's mulch with horse manure or compost and then a little later, as time allows, I mulch. I have heavy clay and it is getting better with time. I apologize for perhaps going off topic here. But earlier in this thread Kim mentioned how some gardeners/homeowners want to cultivate their rose beds and how that might release Dr. Huey from its role as rootstock. I sometimes think in the summer if I have time I'd like to hand cultivate around my roses to get some air and better soil down into the roots. Is this good husbandry or is it a dangerous practice to those roses that are not own-root? |
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| Sidos, unless the soil is heavily compacted around the rose, there's no reason to dig near it to allow air and nutrients. You'll likely break some of the fine feeder roots. I'm a huge proponent of using mulch. It breaks down to improve the soil, keeps the roots moist, and keeps weeds at bay. As long as it's not dyed red or some other unnatural looking color, I think it looks good. |
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| Spring of 1989, when I began planting the old Newhall garden, there were places on that hill where the "soil" was sticky, smelly, green clay. I could not sink a shovel into it, period. I had to carve out small depressions, fill them with water each time I was out there and let that help start holes. I finally rented a large power auger. My sister sat on the motor to keep it from slipping down the slope while I held the power head to make the holes. I found laying down thick layers of horse manure, with the age varying depending upon the source (some right from the animal, other aged) and including any and all stable litter they used, then keeping it damp, the worms, bacteria, birds and all the rest quickly opened that stuff so I could sink a shovel in to ground clear to the handle by the end of the first summer. It was HOT (often triple digits) and I fed that soil literal tonnage of horse manure, always keeping it well watered as water was very cheap and plentiful in those days. The sandy areas quickly became excellent soil. The clay areas took a bit longer but became the best of the lot. Virtually anything I planted there exploded. I had many years when seedling buddleias took over the place. There were several years when the columbines I'd collected from the various plant sales choked out roses. I'd planted hundreds of glads and they took over, both seedlings and divisions. I planted Society Garlic, believing what Rodale's Organic Gardening said about it keeping aphids and snails away (it does NOT!) and that mess proliferated so wildly, I dug almost all of it up, giving it to the HOA gardening staff to plant on their slopes. It's still there in enormous clumps twenty or more years later. That stuff is immortal! I gave away (and threw away) buckets of various seedlings. After one El Nino winter, Mariposa Lilies came up where no one remembered seeing them before. Of course, the temperatures and water amounts had much to do with the horse manure success, but it taught me that much of the time, all you need to do is to feed the soil by putting the appropriate organic materials ON it, then provide the appropriate moisture (depending upon availability, cost and climate) and let Nature do her thing. There are reasons forests do what they do...it works! Kim |
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- Posted by Sidos-House 7 NC (My Page) on Fri, Apr 18, 14 at 14:19
| Thanks, Kidhorn and Kim. I'm glad to know that I don't ever have to think about hand cultivation again. I have enough to think about. And I am fortunate then, in my neighborhood, I have an unlimited supply of horse manure and, in my state, usually, an abundance of water. I am planting seedlings today and am amazed at how much the soil has improved. I have high hopes. Thank you. |
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| You're welcome! You will be pleasantly surprised how much more fun (and how much more TIME) you will have once you aren't enslaved to the "rules" of having to cultivate, be neurotic about weeding, etc. I long ago developed the theology of gardening in MY yard of only growing things which would survive, even thrive, without my interference. I figured if it wouldn't thrive in Nature, without my intervention, why did I need to support it? There are a few exceptions, mainly things I've been fascinated with and provided that kind of support to until they either showed me they didn't need it, or my curiosity was sufficiently satisfied and I let Nature take her course with them. Some survived a while, many died out. Both were totally acceptable. I want a garden which I can visit, enjoy, play with and in, not a full time "job". Once it becomes "work" instead of "fun", I no longer need it as a "past time". Kim |
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| Speaking of Dr. Huey roots.... I decided to dig up a few of my roses that had the grafts exposed. These roses suffered from the cold weather and the grafts were big and ugly. One was also dead, and I picked up a replacement from a local nursery. So I went out with my trusty spade fork to start digging. When I tell you that the roots of these poor piddly roses were 10X the size of what was above ground, I am not kidding. Plus, because I have clay soil, the huge roots were twisted and turned all around. I had a devil of a time digging them up (while trying not to leave any traces that will come through the soil. The rose bed looks much better now, the grafts are buried, only the new growth is showing and I hope they will go own root. I did manage to get whacked with the recoil of the spade fork handle, right under the chin, and I have a nice bruise to show for it. But I love the way the bed looks. And we are getting some nice rain to soak it. |
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- Posted by Kippy-the-Hippy 10 Sunset 24 (My Page) on Fri, Apr 18, 14 at 22:43
| Oh Man Buford, that hurts! I have managed to get some odd bruises in the garden. Kim, I still find myself weeding due to the horse manure. I knew I was going to get some malva and dock....and sure enough I got a forest of malva and dock. But the heavy layer of woodchips over the top has reduced those weeds quite a bit so hopefully it will only take a few rounds of pulling them and then we just get to enjoy the improved soil. I have heard that if you have a lot of worm action in the soil it does more harm than good to cultivate. The tree guy emailed today, he has a truck load of chips for us. |
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| Few mulches completely eliminate weeds, Kippy, especially where there are many "wild" weeds with a lot of wind. At least with the manure, you'll find they are usually much easier to pull up and get the whole root system so they don't regenerate themselves as easily. I hope your wood guy isn't bringing you eucalyptus and/or walnut chips. Neither is good for gardens. Kim |
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| I'm very happy with how all the mulch I put down last year is starting to work. Mine came from NJ Mulch (no spaces, dot com), which is composed of shredded tree and shrub waste left to compost for a year, then shredded again. The result was a nice mix of particle sizes (going down to something about the size of peat moss), and when my order of 15 cubic yards arrived, it was steaming-hot.
Since this is a new garden, I had to create beds. Before the mulch arrived, I laid sheets of cardboard over the weedy grass, weighing it down with trimmings from a tree I was cutting back. As I cut more of the tree and thus had more trimmings to use, I kept extending the cardboard.
Note that there were a lot of leaves put down while still green. Naturally, they browned over time, but I figured the nitrogen was still in there.
So then when the actual mulch came, that went over it all to a depth of about 6 inches.
And since I had so much, I continued my "bed-making" elsewhere.
This year, about a month and a half ago when the snow finally cleared, I started broadcasting blood meal over all the mulched areas, as well as giving 1/2 cup of organic rose food to each rose in the ground. Then a couple weeks later I did it again, this time with Milorganite over the mulch. Following that came the composted manure (mix of horse, sheep, goat, cattle and pig) from Rutgers University, which I lightly tilled in. A week ago I started planting the perennials. While digging down into the mulch, I noticed it was filled with earthworms and mycelia, as well as being dark and moist despite the top half-inch being more of a dry crust (which has lightened in color considerably from the previous pics). As of now, the mulch is still just sitting on top of the reddish clay that is my native soil. The roses were planted into the native soil, but the perennials were planted in the mulch (I dug down to the top of the soil level and placed the bottom of the coco-pots there for those liking "regular" moisture, while planting much more shallowly those that like it more free-draining). There is nothing emerging from below that I smothered with the cardboard, tree trimmings and mulch, and any weed or tree seedlings sprouting now on top are very easily pulled out. The mulch helped to lay the foundation of a new bed without grass or weed removal, and along with the fertilizers and compost I added, is forming the basis of a great new soil. I want to see how long I can go without watering this year (we do get a lot of rain much of the year, anyway). Come Autumn, I'm going to add a layer of shredded leaves collected from the curbs of neighbors -- and probably repeat that yearly. That should allow me to go without another big mulch delivery for a couple years -- unless I catch the town trimming trees in my neighborhood, in which case I might just ask for a bit. So, yeah...I'm all for mulch. :-) ~Christopher |
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| That looks great Christopher. You are going to be rewarded for your hard work with great soil and roses. One of the dead roses I had to dig up was in a spot I've been amending with just compost and mulch for a few years. The previous red clay was more like fluffy cake mix when I dug into it. It was so nice...... |
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| My mulch is so beautiful.....About 5 or so yards of horse manure in my driveway. Will wait to spread till after kiddies have Easter Egg hunt. It smells like roses to me. But to some of the Mommies it may not. Best gift, I have gotten in years. Wow! Am I just dancing. Yeah it will bring up a few weeds, but I am prepared for them. We have plenty of moisture being in PNW, but I still like 3 to 4 in. down. Love to you all, you MULCHERS! |
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