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| Most roses we grow are descended from the species that fall under genus Rosa. There is another genus in Rosa called Hulthemia and it is interesting in that the petals have a blotch at the base. From the single species, there are now some interesting blooms emerging as amateur breeders continue the work with Hulthemia.
Jim Sproul in California is actively trying this effort ans has a blog devoted to these roses-that-aren't-roses. Great photos of the germinations he's getting this spring as well as a good read. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Hulthemia
Follow-Up Postings:
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| This very cool, Ann. Thank you! |
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- Posted by flaurabunda 5b (My Page) on Sat, Apr 23, 11 at 22:25
| I was just looking at some pics of Tigris & Euphrates today in a book. I'm not a fan of singles, but I must admit that these Hulthemias have gorgeous eyes. I feel like they are staring back at me from the book pages. Would love to see one in person, someday. I have some reading to do on these tonight....wondering if they came from the Middle East and if that means that they favor drier climates with sandier soils? |
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- Posted by canadian_rose zone 3a (My Page) on Sat, Apr 23, 11 at 23:11
| Who knew? That is so cool!! Do they have fragrance as well? Or is that variable like the ones we're all used to? Carol |
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| A couple of things y'all might want to read about Hulthemias: Louis Hole who gardened in and had a nursery in Alberta Canada grew (and sold) a Hulthemia hybrid that survived those bitter conditions with snow cover. Her book on roses has a wonderful picture (as well as the name of the one she grew. I can't find my copy right now, but it's worth the search for her book.) You've hear of Rose de Recht which was found by Nancy Lindley in Recht, Iran (IIRC, it might be preset day Iraq). She went on a plant journey with a friend and the book is called "To Persia for Flowers". In that book is a picture of a donkey, laden down with a huge amount of plants that were being taken back to the drover's home as fodder for his other livestock. That load on the donkey was ALL Hulthemias that were growing somewhere in the wild where he could pull up that many in one day. Probably on fallow land that he may not have owned. Both these books should be available at larger libraries or through Inter Library Loan. (I really loved To Persia for Flowers.) |
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| The colors on these hulthemia roses are lovely, esp. the work Jim Sproul is doing. Can these roses be purchased anywhere? What are the names of some of them? I am just now getting interested in them. Thanks..... |
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- Posted by amandahugg SS19 CA (My Page) on Sun, Aug 21, 11 at 12:59
| Peter James of the UK is far ahead of Jim Sproul's attempts. Check out his Eyes for You - double petalage, spicy fragance, larger flowers and better plant. |
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| I've not been fortunate to grow the James' hybrids yet as they haven't been available here. I have grown and still have a number of the Moore hybrids and I've grown three of the four Harkness garden hybrids. In my mid desert climate, mildew has been the biggest foliage issue. With the Eyeconic series, black spot is more of an issue which is why Conard Pyle is marketing them primarily in areas where that isn't an issue, though with warnings will sell them in other areas. Nigel Hawthorne is half Rugosa and is the best foliage on any of the Harkness hybrids I've grown. It will NOT tolerate any chemicals sprayed on its foliage in my desert climate nor where I grew it in Pacific Palisades right on the water. In that coastal environment, it flowered from spring through the high heat, usually beginning in September, when the heat shut it down. Eyeconic Lemonade is the most traditionally "garden worthy" of any I've grown. You can think of it literally as a floribunda as it doesn't have the rangy, "species-like" growth habit all the others I've grown demonstrate and it began flowering early and hasn't slowed down. As with the majority of them, the "blotch" fades out quite a bit in high heat, but the yellow color lasts quite well compared to any other yellow rose I've ever grown. I've not experienced the black spot issues with it here, even though the disease is rather bad this year. It has the best foliage and most traditional "rose foliage" of any Hulthemia hybrid I've touched yet. Jim Sproul has taken it from a bramble bush, put foliage on it and massaged it into a real garden plant! Well done! Moore's Persian Autumn is flowering now in the garden. Euphrates, the most troublesome of the Harkness hybrids for disease here, will NOT die! Even though every plant part, including the petals will mildew, this plant has lasted as a piece of the original plant I imported from Harkness in 1985. I had the honor and extreme pleasure of corresponding with Jack Harkness when he wrote to express his appreciation for my having documented his work with Hulthemia in a two part article Peter Schneider published in his great American Rose Rambler back in the 1990s. Like Mr. Moore and Jim Sproul, he was a lovely, kind and gracious person. Kim |
Here is a link that might be useful: Eyeconic Lemonade
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- Posted by kstrong 10 So Cal (kathystrong@gmail.com) on Sun, Aug 21, 11 at 15:59
| More pics of Eyeconic Lemonade, which will be out this next bareroot season at the nurseries and mail order sources that sell Star (Meilland) Roses. It's a stunning rose AND a stunning plant.
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| Harkness have a new hulthemia - Alissar, Princess of Phoenicia, which is looking like a good doer - at the moment, it is completely healthy. Both Eyes for You and Alissar PoP are readily available in many nurseries in the UK so would expect these will be coming to the US soon. I have eyes for you (it looks very similar to tree paeonies)too but it is so far, staying quite gangly with little new growth apart from the original (very thorny and woody) three canes it came with. Annoyingly, it does not show an inclination for female fertility, refusing to set heps of any viability in its first year here. Couldn't say whether this is the case with Alissar as I have been dead-heading it. I am a little astonished at the sudden explosion of interest in these roses - Euphrates was bred back in the early 80's (I wasn't even much of a gardener but this rose stood out for me like a beacon) -I have been following all the breeding with hulthemias quite avidly ever since. Another rose I am hoping will be developed is the gooseberry leaved rose - R.stellata and stellata mirifica - this little rose also has an elusive darker tone at it's centre - a look I find very attractive. |
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| Campanula, if at all possible, find Len's Pink Mystery. It's the only commercially available hybrid of Stellata and resembles it greatly, only nicer. I had it from Mr. Lens many years ago and it appears gone from these shores now. Heavier, denser, higher quality foliage, larger flowers in greater quantity and duration, a very nice rose in its own right. I still grow Mirifica and while it throws flowers much of the summer and sets those frightening looking hips, its pollen refuses to take on anything and none of the seeds it creates does anything. The only seedling I've ever been able to raise from it was from seed using its pollen on Anytime. It grew a few begrudging inches before it committed suicide. I think Pink Mystery would probably make a better addition to your garden. Kim |
Here is a link that might be useful: Pink Mystery
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| I have two hybrid hulthemia roses from Moore's nursery, Persian Peach and Persian Sunset. They will not bloom. They have long whip-like growth with no buds. I have had them for 3 years. They are currently on probation! - Azure |
Here is a link that might be useful: Rare Roses Blog
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| Azure, it is likely a heat issue. I had all of mine in five gallon nursery cans in partial shade under a tree out back waiting to be planted. I got them in the ground a few weeks ago and put the Hulthemias in a HOT spot, west facing, three quarters day sun getting full afternoon sun and Persian Sunset is budding and opening flowers now. Only Euphrates flowered in that partial light. It'll be interesting seeing whether it will flower now that it's in Hades. Are yours in pots or in the ground? If there is any way to raise the heat around them, including putting a black plastic mulch around them (poking many holes for air and water circulation, of course) like they do in Oxnard for strawberries, it will raise the temperature around them and possibly encourage them to flower. Visalia could get down right HOT (100 F+) and they loved it. Kim |
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| ah yes, the enigmatic pink mystery- true, this is a lovely, impossible rose. In truth though, I rarely persist in looking for elusive roses. Cash flow alone often dictates what roses and where I am likely to be getting them from, so discovering the gorgeous Schoener's nutkana (although the size of the blooms still startles me) fulfilled an immediate desire for a brightly cheerful deep pink single rose. |
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| Campanula, if your season is long enough, you can "trick" Schoener's into "reblooming". Allow it to set all the hips it will and begin developing them. Then, strip them all off, feed it and water it like spring rains. Here (and this may be truly specific to hotter areas, but without testing in a colder one, who would know?), it rebloomed after such treatment. With as milder (comparatively) as your spring to summer change is, does this rose flower a long time for you or just a couple of weeks? Thanks. Kim |
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| Kim, SN: it is a very new rose - this summer was its first showing - while there has not been a conspicuous spring flush, therehas been a sporadic flowering over three months.. Just three or so flowers then a couple of weeks rest, then another 2 or 3 and so on. It is planted on an old compost heap where the soil is deep and very fertile. Consequently, it has been growing madly with arching 5 feet canes and good foliage. As it is needed to hide a chainlink fence right at the end of my allotment, I am happy to let it get as big as it likes. It is growing next to a rather blatant clematis (Fireworks - a daughterly gift so it must be seen) so I expect that end of the allotment to be visible throughout the length of the entire plot...even several streets away. May throw in some lychnis coronaria (and not the tasteful pale pastel one) for the full-on psychedelic pink explosion(and hey, there is a huge moyessii and cerise tanacetum, just nearby). |
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| I like the sound of that Suzan. PLEASE post photos when it explodes! Thanks. Kim |
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- Posted by johnstarnes Zone 9 (johnastarnes@aol.com) on Tue, Jun 3, 14 at 21:09
| I love Jim Sproul's new seedlings based on "Darlowe's Enignma"! |
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