Is there anything wrong with wanting to see her roses from your car? I don't think so. I wouldn't feel bad about it one bit. That you can recognize RRD is a good thing. You'd be doing her a favor telling her about it. If you asked to come over and see her garden you could show her the RRD .

Suck3 I am in the same postition with my neighbor but Im not 100% sure its RRD I have to get better pic posted here so I can be sure.

I have people drive by to look at my yard (usually during spring flush) all the time. Sometimes I'm out side and I talk to them about the roses. And lots of neighbors who walk their dogs past the house. I wouldn't mind anyone telling me if they saw what you saw. You should just say you were driving by to see her roses and you noticed multiflora near her yard that may have RRD. Then it's up to her to check it out.

I just lost a rose to RRD. Now when I drive around, I can see the multiflora in bloom. It's all over. I have no hope of eradicating it. So I just have to be vigilant in my own yard.

Sorry I missed spelled your user name :S

Rose junkies are known for creeping around to look at roses, so you are good there. Yes, tell her about "her" RRD.

I have a similar situation--multiflora along my creek. I am slowly eradicating it. In the meantime, I have discovered that some roses seem a bit more resistant to RRD, tho any and all can get it and I have lost at least one of just about every class. But it seems to me that roses with multiflora in their genes are more prone. I've lost many more hybrid musks and polyanthas, where gallicas, rugosas and HPs along the same path are good. There is no plan to my garden--I create beds as I need to and stick whatever arrives in, so there is a random sampling along the RRD's main path thru my garden.

If you don't want to take this on by yourself, perhaps you have a local Ag Agent you can ask to perform this duty on your behalf? One way or the other, you have every right to point out this issue to your neighbor. However, I suggest you be prepared to accept whatever choice they make to deal with it or not; its their choice to make.

But Paul can we do nothing to help protect our roses? I just posted pictures to another post on here just a min ago because I think my neighbor has it on her rose and I am worried about mine.

Here is a link that might be useful: Post with my photos

People slow down, stop and hail me all the time. I'm always very flattered that they like to look at my roses. I'm sure your new friend would be as well.

As for telling her about the RRD. You really need to let her know. Sometimes we are just so familiar with a place because we go past it so often that we don't really see it anymore. She may not be aware that the RRD has come so close to her. You'll be doing her a kindness by letting her know.

I would also let the AG Dept. know where it is as well. Although I've heard that some of them haven't seemed to take this disease very seriously. But they should be made aware of it none the less.

If she was horrified that you had RRD infected multiflora 100 feet from your yard (and blamed her RRD on it), I would think she'd be grateful to know that there were some nearer to her. If not, then OH WELL!!!

Don't underestimate the ignorance of other rose growers. Some know rose diseases; others don't.

If she doesn't believe you, have her contact Dr. Alan Windom at the state ag department in Nashville at the Ellington Plant Center. He does know RRD; he and several others are embarking on a project (with ARS funding) to study RRD and how it spreads into gardens. And how to stop it.

Jessica, have you read my e-book about RRD?

Here is a link that might be useful: Rose Rosette E-book

Ann I just read the first page I didn't know there was a whole book there but I am going to read it!

Ann's E-book is great--I've given the link and some parts of it to multiple neighbors to show them what is wrong with their roses. Many people do not see the disease until it is severe and even those who recognize their roses are growing strangely often don't know what is wrong. They've always been happy to get the information and prompt about removing the infected plants (or giving me permission to kill an infected multiflora on their property). Over the years I've gotten rid of most local sources of RRD, although there are still some highway median/commercial plantings I cannot get anyone to remove.

We just visited the Missouri Botanical and their former rose garden is bare soil now--they are currently debating whether to give up on roses entirely there and plant something else, as they'd been forced to plant them essentially as annuals, at great expense, with the RRD wiping them out rapidly. Really a shame, it was a beautiful rose garden when we moved here. Used to be listed as the local place to go see Austin English roses but no more. I will miss it. Guess I'll need to grow for myself any rose I want to enjoy on a regular basis.

That is horrible stlagl! It kills me to see a business going under...

I just had a phone conversation with my neighbor rosarian and explained that I saw a "suspicious multiflora" right across the street from her house (and a few other places in her neighborhood) that she might what to check. She was very gracious and appreciative that I made the call! (Are all you rose people this nice?! ;-) ) It wasn't nearly as awkward as I feared it would be. You all were right, it didn't seem to phase her a bit that I would do a "drive by" to check out her roses.

We also talked a bit about some other local neighborhoods that are having a big struggle with it. She knew about Ann's E-book and has been giving out the web address--I think she said she was even getting the site mentioned in the local RS newsletter. How great that Ann's created such a intensive site to share all her accumulated knowledge on the subject!

Ann thanks for the Ellington Ag Center contact. It's good to hear they will be doing some research. I was just there last week dropping some soil samples off to be tested and one of their traffic islands needs to be checked too. (I feel a little like the nosey neighbor who is involved in the neighborhood crime watch group! "Suspicious rose alert..." :-D

In some sense finding all this RRD is a positive thing for my attitude. Maybe it won't be the disaster I fear trying to grow roses on my farm. It's out there and people are still (for the most part) able to grow roses more successfully than not. At least I'm aware of it and even if I can't get to all of it maybe I'm making enough difference to give it a go.

I have had roses at this farm for about sixteen years. For at least twelve years there has been RRD in my part of Tennessee. My garden has lost a couple of roses each year for twelve years.

What I've learned so far has reduced my losses. What I've learned is from individual observations and incorporates what we've all talked about on Garden Web.

The work that UT scientists are going to do will look at the spread of the disease in enough test plots, rather than in single observations. They'll be doing it way away from cultivated roses and doing the tests on a massive scale. They'll also get a good feel for how long it takes for RRD to get into uninfected roses from severely infected roses. And there're a lot of other questions that will be answered by rigorous scientific tests.

I've been growing roses here for about 12 years now and have found that if you can just clear your local neighborhood/nearby areas of infected plants and stay vigilant in watching for new disease, roses are still manageable. My gardens were hit badly for a couple of years while I was dealing with the nearby infestations, scouring the woods for wild infected multiflora that needed to be removed, and calling the neighborhood association to get infected ones that they had removed. I was very tempted to give up on roses then, but nothing else had the same appeal. And now it is a plant or two in most years, so rather manageable. It occasionally forces me to decide how much I enjoy a rose and whether it is worth replanting.

One thing to keep in mind is that there are certain planting locations that, due to wind flow or other factors, seem infection prone. I've given up planting large climbers against a wall where every rose that I put there eventually succumbed. I think the way the wind hit it made it a mite magnet and having large climbers there just gave them too much surface area to target. Only ivy in that location now.

Regarding the statement: "We just visited the Missouri Botanical and their former rose garden is bare soil now--they are currently debating whether to give up on roses entirely there and plant something else, as they'd been forced to plant them essentially as annuals, at great expense, with the RRD wiping them out rapidly."
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H.Kuska comment. When I read statements like this, I wonder if they were creating their "own" severe rose rosette virus "LIKE" problem by using Round-Up.
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It is important to not mix up herbicide damage with RRD virus damage. Some/many? of the observed problems may be due to the use of Round-Up type weed killers near the roses. The Round-Up can leave the roots of a weed, pass through the soil, and be picked up by the roots of nearby rose bushes.

See the link below for Round-up spread:

http://www.agron.iastate.edu/news/events/2011staniforth_sm.pdf (page 19 and 20)

The glyphosate could remain bound for long time periods.

"Glyphosate [(N-(phosphonomethyl)glycine)] is a widely used herbicide and it is known to compete for the same sorption sites in soil as phosphorus. Persistence and losses of glyphosate were monitored in a field with low phosphorus status and possible correlation between glyphosate and phosphorus leaching losses was studied. Glyphosate and its metabolite AMPA (aminomethyl phosphonic acid) residues in soil samples were analysed after a single application in autumn. Twenty months after the application the residues of glyphosate and AMPA in the topsoil (0�25 cm) corresponded to 19% and 48%, respectively, of the applied amount of glyphosate, and traces of glyphosate and AMPA residues were detected in deeper soil layers (below 35 cm). These results indicate rather long persistence for glyphosate in boreal soils."

http://www.springerlink.com/content/w1461w60366lk018/

Then, when you add fertilizer with P; the glyphosate could be released.

"The results suggest that re-mobilisation of glyphosate may represent an additional transfer pathway for glyphosate to non-target plants which is strongly influenced by soil characteristics such as P fixation potential, content of plant-available iron, pH, cation exchange capacity, sand content and soil organic matter."

http://www.springerlink.com/content/t7h6601566432076/

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Round-Up can cause problems even if sprayed last summer or fall.

A quote from Roses: Cultural Practices and Weed Control: "Roses are also very sensitive to glyphosate (Roundup and many other trade names), which can be absorbed through the green stems in addition to the leaves. Glyphosate damage may appear at bud break the following spring after a summer or fall application that contacts leaves or stems; symptoms include a proliferation of small, narrow shoots and leaves."

See the 2 links below to see what Round-Up damage on roses looks like:

http://plantpathology.uark.edu/Number5-2009.pdf

AND

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyuM5gjdx7g

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How to distinguish Round-Up damage from Rose Rosette Virus damage?

The Univ of Arkansas link I gave earlier http://plantpathology.uark.edu/Number5-2009.pdf

states: "Roundup injury resembles a virus called Rose Rosette Virus. You can tell the difference by examining the thorns. Plants with the virus have an excessive growth of unusually soft and pliable red or green thorns ."

H.Kuska comment. Apparently some feel that not all RRV infections have the thorny condition described above.

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Here is a link that might be useful: my link for rose rosette disease virus

nope Henry, the MoBot has been dealing with RRD for years. It has slowly risen to this crisis state.

For years, many of the adjacent neighborhoods had infected plants and these were not rooted out. I don't know if they didn't have the manpower to go inform the locals, but whatever the reason they did not. I recall being horrified at passing by massively infected plants across the street from the gardens.

The losses I noticed started about 6-7 yrs ago with their huge climbers succumbing (a gorgeous Dr. W Van Fleet included, had to have had 25-30 foot canes). About 4 years ago, I spotted an infected rose in the Japanese gardens and brought it to the attention of the rosarians.

Within the last several years the problem has grown observably worse. I think that the recession may have reduced their staffing and they weren't able to keep up with identification and prompt removal of plants, so they developed an internal infection problem. 2 years ago I noticed a handful of infected roses on a visit there, and by last summer they'd clearly given up the fight since there we counted over 30 infected plants when we visited.

So this year, they removed all of those. It may be that they decided the best option was to clear out all potential sources of internal infection for a year and then decide what to replant.

They do still have a field test garden in a completely different location that is largely intact. If they're vigilant they may be able to keep that going.

Henry I get that you are virulently opposed to the use of Round Up, but have you considered that this compulsion you have of trying to turn every RRD thread into a Round Up damage thread may have negative effects for those trying to deal with what is an RRD epidemic in some parts of the country?

This afternoon I drove 4 miles to the local community my neighbor/rosarian was telling me she had heard had an RRD "issue." I was gobsmacked. I felt like someone walking through a room full a people with cancer, but I was the only one in the room that knew anyone was sick--like a Twilight Zone episode.

This community is at least half built out and will have over 2500 homes when it is done. All in a "new urban"/"front porch" plan with homes on 1/4 to There are literally thousands of rose bushes there, probably over 50%-75% of the 1500+/- homes have at least one rose bush and many have dozens. The medians and public spaces were full of them too. I'd guess maybe 20-25% of the bushes I saw had RRD symptoms. I suspect that RRD will end up causing a significant dollar amount in plant destruction and labor. Right now it looks like nobody is doing anything about it. Landscape crews were busily working away in median beds full of RRD roses--and they weren't doing removal!

My prediction is that this community is going to start waking up in the next several weeks and months as the bushes start looking sicker and they are going to get on the internet. Because the scope of the problem there is going to be a lot of denial, and I can guarantee you that the "Round Up Damage Theory" is going to be grasped as a hopeful solution and its going to delay getting anything done. The Round Up theory is going to prevent some home owners from doing what needs to be done as well as the developer who stands to lose the most will find it as he looks for some way to avoid or delay the expense involved in clean up and more roses are going to die in mass. If they are going to save anything--if they can at this point(?)--I have to believe they have no time to lose. Instead they are probably going to argue about it over their fence lines and yell at each other about it in their HOA meetings.

Looking at the RRD around me, if trying to deal with it means some Round Up damaged roses mistakenly get the ax I have a hard time feeling bad about it.

Ughh...I feel your pain, that is my experience out here in a nutshell. The Knockouts are an absolute nightmare here. Forget wild multiflora as an RRD source, here every landscaper charged with putting plants in a mall parking lot or roadway median had the bright idea of planting a ton of KOs. Within a year or two they are all a horrific eyesore, with at least a third of the plants showing clear signs of RRD. Of course, they won't actually die of it for years in some cases and are just festering messes, and as you say, those contracted with caring for these areas just prune the diseased mess into a ball in spring (if that) and walk away. There is no one to look to to try to get rid of the plants. I have been sorely tempted (if I thought it would do any good) to attach tags written in English and Spanish to these plants, telling whomever next comes to tend them that they need to be removed.

The only recommendation I have is, if your subdivision has an association (or anyone responsive) get them to remove diseased plants in communal plantings. Give them Ann's info. An education campaign and removal of any and all diseased plants near your own rose garden is the best prevention. Often people don't know what it is, so once you give them information it is easy to remove the diseased plants.

It is very simple to ask if Round-Up has been used. Many (most?) people believe the advertising that Round-Up is inactivated once it hits the ground.

" here every landscaper charged with putting plants in a mall parking lot or roadway median had the bright idea of planting a ton of KOs. Within a year or two they are all a horrific eyesore, with at least a third of the plants showing clear signs of RRD."

stlgal I am very, very thankful that it isn't my pain! This is a community about 4 miles from me. Having had the joys of living in a HOA governed community though I have a pretty good idea how this may play out.

I'm actually on 50 acres with great neighbors who so far are more than happy for me to go traipsing around their property to remove the multiflora. But's it going to be a big job and it's going to take a while to create a mostly multiflora free zone. (And I'll never be able to get rid of all of it.) It's not like I don't have my own acres that needs tending. :)

Henry even if Round Up has been used it doesn't mean the roses don't have RRD. Plenty of people use RU on their property and they don't have damage to their roses. Myself included. And if I DID have RU damage it wouldn't matter because the roses with a problem also have RRD.

I'll tell you what. If my multiflora or the KOs in the community I'm talking about turn out not to have RRD and instead have RU problems I'll donate $100 to the ARS in your honor and ask that it be earmarked for a study on RU damage in roses. Are you willing to put your money where your mouth is and make the same commitment to me? Maybe a donation for the study at UT that Ann mentioned if my multiflora has RRD?

I put up pictures on another thread showing both RRD and RU damage. There really is no mistaking one for the other, once you've actually seen both. An RRD newbie may see RU damage and think it's RRD because it looks 'weird'. I've also seen new spring growth that looks 'weird' and thought about RRD. But when I finally saw it, there was no doubt in my mind. It's like a monster that takes over a rose. I'm sure there are some roses that show slightly different damage, but again, If you cut off or wait out a RU damaged rose, it gets better. RRD does not.

I occasionally use RU on horrible weed outbreaks and often see some slight RU damage on roses nearby. Again, it's slight, it doesn't look monstrous and it goes away.

RRD is real and it needs to be addressed and not pushed aside for an anti RU agenda.

"RRD is real and it needs to be addressed and not pushed aside for an anti RU agenda."

H. Kuska comment. I was one of the first (if not the first on this forum) to warn about RRD. There is a big difference between understanding that both round-up damage and RRD can occur and trying to "push aside" the existence and actual behavior of any rose virus. I have links to round-up damage pictures AND to Ann Pecks articles so that the individual can make an intelligent decision as to what is happening to their roses. I await the new research that Ann mentioned in the hope that we will have a better understanding of RRDV's unique behavour relative to round-up damage.

With all respect, Ann was the first to post here about RRD.

I have seen many threads where a person asks if it is RRD and most people give RU damage consideration. But in the past few weeks, there have been a few threads about RRD (one of them was my rose)like this one where it was obvious that it was RRD and you still insisted that it could be RU damage and that people were mistaking RU damage for RRD. It just does not need to be brought up on every thread about RRD UNLESS there is doubt.

I was thinking that Knockouts are the new multiflora. Think about it, they are many times planted in mass plantings and can get large and dense. Prior to KOs, most neighborhoods would have a few homes with roses. Now it seems every neighborhood has homes with multiple KOs. It's possible they are responsible for helping to spread RRD.

I volunteer in a public organic rose garden populated with antiques, Earthkinds, Bucks, Flower Carpets and Drifts. The roses are all wonderfully healthy but RRV keeps poking its head up. About 75 yards upwind was a long hedge of KO's which was horribly infected. Hopefully the recurrence will slow down now the source of infection is gone.
There's still a small KO hedge somewhat upwind which was not removed, much to my displeasure. I'm going to nag about that!!!
Like Buford, I think our insistence on always planting roses as a monoculture is just asking for trouble, and I am hopeful that over time this organic rose garden will include some diversity-- grasses, annuals, and perennials.

Well........nobody has really addressed this aspect of it, so I'll bring it up.

Wild multiflora isn't cared for. Neither are the KO's that are marketed as "set it and forget it". They are not as a rule pruned, weeded, fed, deadheaded, checked for pests, disease, or anything.

I plant roses in several areas as monoculture, but I care for my plantings. I can't say the same thing for those that have been dropped willy-nilly into concrete islands in town or into new subdivisions where the buyers barely understand how to mow their grass properly and have purchased more house than they can possibly maintain.

I'm sick and tired of KO's being paraded around as Disease-Resitant-Wonder-Plants that require zero care. No wonder they're becoming the vector for many problems. Ever seen what happens when 1 neighbor decides that yardwork is too much of a chore to bother with? Their problems will eventually migrate to other yards.

Agree entirely with the postings above. The problem is having an untended monoculture of plants that serve as a reservoir to propagate the disease. KOs are serving as such a reservoir in urban and suburban areas, in addition to multiflora growing in wilder areas and in suburban woodlands. One can watch the disease spread through the plantings year by year and individual plants often aren't killed by an infection for 5-10 years, by which point they've served as a disease vector for an awfully long time. When they redid plantings here at the med school many infected roses were removed and those beds were replaced by a lovely mix of all native perennials and grasses.

I hope this KO planting craze is a passing fancy that will wane. Until then, if one spots an infected rose and can identify the owner it is always worth providing information about what is wrong with the plant and getting them to remove it. It would also be worth making a plant tag that provides the key information about RRD that could be affixed to diseased plants, to tell whomever tends the bed next that the rose should be removed. I don't know if it would work, but would be worth a try.

I am contacting my Ohio State extension office here in town and the newspaper so see if they can get the word out. Could I put any of you down as references????

I have a KO but I just don't leave it and forget it I tend to it, pruning, dead heading whatever would that matter?

Here is an article about RRD/RRV from the Ohio State University

BYGLers (Buckeye Yard and Garden onLine) discussed the relatively recent appearance of rose rosette disease (RDD) on Knock Out roses. Roses in this group have been heavily used in landscapes because of their relative adaptability to a wider range of landscape conditions compared to their hybrid-tea cousins. However, in recent years, RDD has become a serious issue in Ohio landscapes, particularly in mass plantings.

RDD was first reported in 1941 on multiflora rose Manitoba, Canada, Wyoming, northeastern California, and Nebraska; however, it took many years for scientific sleuthing to reveal the exact cause of the disease and the mechanism for disease transmission. Indeed, until very recently, the pathogen was thought to be a phytoplasma; these are prokaryotic (no nucleus) cells that lack crosswalls. However, phytoplasmas did not "fit" with the discovery that RDD is transmitted by an eriophyid mite, specifically the ROSE LEAF CURL MITE (Phyllocoptes fructiplilus) that inhabits the shoot tips and leaf petal bases of roses. Phytoplasmas inhabit plant phloem and eriophyid mites do not have the phloem-piercing mouthparts of leafhoppers or psyllids; two common vectors of phytoplasma diseases.

Research published in 2011 by scientists from the University of Arkansas and Oregon State University showed the true causal agent for RDD to be a new negative-strand RNA virus that has been tagged, ROSE ROSETTE VIRUS (RRV). Readers may recognize the name because "RRV" was used before on the road to discovering the true culprit when it was believed a virus was involved prior to the phytoplasma side-trip. A virus once again "fits" because virus particles are not limited to phloem and may be readily available within a range of plant tissue to hitch-hike on eriophyid mites. Currently, the disease is diagnosed based on observed symptoms since there is no laboratory method to detect the virus; however now that the virus has been identified, diagnostic tests may be developed.

The mite alone causes little damage; however, the virus produces a range of symptoms that first become evident in the spring and intensify as the season progresses. Infected plants produce succulent bright red shoots covered in stunted, twisted stems, and leaves. The leaves may also appear red, chlorotic, or a combination of both symptoms and the shoots may be covered by an abnormally high number of thorns. The twisted growth may be mistaken for damage caused by a plant growth-regulator herbicide such as 2, 4-D.

The disease is lethal to multiflora rose and it was originally thought that the pathogen was specific to this non-native noxious weed. However, it has become clear in the intervening years that RDD also infects virtually all cultivated roses. Once plants become infected, all parts of the plants are infectious. Pruners used on infected plants can spread the pathogen to non-infected plants. There are no pesticides available that will control the disease, so management focuses on removing the pathogen by removing infected plants. Entire plants, including the roots, should be removed and destroyed; while the pathogen does not survive in the soil, it will survive in roots. If possible, rose growers should focus their attention on eliminating nearby multiflora rose plants since the plants can serve as reservoirs for this disease.

Here is a link that might be useful: OSU article about RRD

The following was stated: "But in the past few weeks, there have been a few threads about RRD (one of them was my rose)like this one where it was obvious that it was RRD and you still insisted that it could be RU damage and that people were mistaking RU damage for RRD. It just does not need to be brought up on every thread about RRD UNLESS there is doubt."
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H.Kuska comment: As mentioned in the various links, the virus specific chemical check is not yet generally available. Also, as Ann mentioned there are scientific studies being done to get a better idea of the viruses' behavior. At present I feel that there is doubt if Round-up was used in the area as the symptoms overlap. Are there any communities where Round-Up use is banned? If there are, what rates of RRV infection are being observed there?

Henry, not a community, but my personal garden. I don't use RU or any other hebicides. Not a single time during my 16 years in present MD house. Next door yards belong to "don't ever go outside" person on one side and "no other plants, only napa cabbage" chinese family on the other side. Both don't use RU. Plenty of RRD infected multiflora along the creek next to my property. Nobody is using RU there. It is just wild patch. I get several roses with RRD every year. Just lost Lady Hillingdon, Yolande de Aragon and Le Vesuve to RRD this spring.
Olga

Thank you Ogla, your experience of a few a year, sounds more in line with what I would expect from the experience that I am familar with in Ohio.

I would expect that it would be very useful if you and others that are certain of no Round-Up complications could submit pictures (and details) of your infections to Ann (of course if she feels that such would be useful) for possible inclusion in her book for the purpose of illustrating what the range of known infections look like.

So, there really is nothing that can be done (at least in practical terms) to stop an invasion of RRD? I am referring to the OSU article. I try to be objective--most of the roses in my garden have not been infected, but the number is increasing. This may be the last year that I plant any new roses.

An antitranspirant spray has been suggested, but that would be very expensive if one had a lot of roses to protect.

This thread started on April 22. My warning that the symptoms could of been caused by herbicide damage was not taken seriously by some of the posters. The link below is an August 1, 2012 article on Rose Rosette virus.

"Symptom variability can complicate disease diagnosis because of some similarities to symptoms associated with injury caused by glyphosate or phenoxy herbicides (i.e. 2,4D, MCPP)."

"Witches� broom symptoms are not diagnostic for RRD. This symptom pattern can also occur in response to herbicide injury. If glyphosate (Roundup) contacts the green tissue of a rose plant, it will be translocated to the buds and cause a witches� broom with yellow or otherwise discolored (Figure 2C), elongated (Figure 2D), and small (Figure 2E) leaves. If this damage occurs in the fall, these symptoms will not become evident until the following spring. The broadleaf herbicide 2,4-D can also cause leaf symptoms on roses similar to glyphosate. If the plant is not killed, symptoms of glyphosate herbicide injury will often reappear the following year."

Also, please look at Figure 2.
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I would expect that the long time readers are familar with Professor Hagen's contributions to the scientific study of plant/rose diseases, but if you are not please see:

http://www.ag.auburn.edu/enpl/directory/faculty/hagan/

Here is a link that might be useful: Rose Rosette Disease in Alabama