I've grown both. Othello was a poor bloomer for the size of the plant. The long canes are very stiff and thorny. However, I've seen pictures of a pruned shrub displaying a good spring flush (DC area). It had been cut back repeatedly over the years until it finally consented to become a large, bushy shrub.

Tess for me has bloomed freely in the first flush with some repeat, better than Othello but not super. It is also a vigorous grower, but the canes are more flexible and more freely branching. It can be self-pegged (canes wrapped over or around the base), pruned, or grown as a climber.It has been somewhat more resistant to blackspot than Othello.

Flowers of both have excellent color and form. Othello has a stronger fragrance. Tess is noticeably fragrant and long-lasting as a cut flower.

PS about color. Othello is dark crimson. Tess is bright cherry-red when developing outside, but dark crimson with raspberry tones when cut in tight bud and brought inside.

'Othello' leaves a great deal to be desired, IMO: loads of ten foot canes with abundant carnivorous thornage, and the foliage is no stranger to Blackspot. It isn't very generous with bloom either; decent flush in the spring, but only a few here and there for the rest of the season. However, each bloom is huge and bears a magnificent perfume. Personally, I would opt for a more "restrained" shrub that offers more blooms, more often.

Othello has faults but is very beautiful and very fragrant. Mine practically died in a drought and I am anxious to see my new plant put on some size. Tess is new to me, so far not nearly as fragrant, and the color is much lighter. Othello is more cup shaped and can be almost purple...a deep, rich shade. My Othello rebloomed some in fall. It could be great on a fence where the long canes would not be a problem..it blooms all along the canes.

Michaelg, Trosepero, and Erasmus,

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts about these roses. It sounds like you've all had similiar experiences with them. It's funny, I thought Austins would bloom more. That doesn't seem to be the case with all of them. I have Falstaff and it doesn't bloom much, although, I haven't had it long.

I wonder if some of the crimson hybrid perpetuals would rebloom better than these Austins.

Thanks again for the help,
Kitty

Which roses would be more restrained and offer more blooms more often?

Even here in the UK tess just throws up long arms with flowers on the top - almost looks like 3 or 4 standards (trees) planted together sometimes. I'm not a massive fan of either but if you keep it in check, tess would be the better.

If rebloom and plant shape are your top priorities Maggie is hard to beat. It does get very large but is so shrubby and produces hundreds of blooms in each flush. It can really take the heat. It is more of a cerise and is very fragrant. The individual blooms don't compare to Othello though. It has better bs resistance. Tradescant reblooms pretty well here. Some people have very nice plants of The Dark Lady, though mine is runty so far. Munstead Wood looks like a gorgeous one. Oh, Prospero is a fantastic blooming red Austin. It stays very compact. The blooms look more like dahlias to me, again, just not as beautiful as Othello. Othello can use some afternoon shade.

Yes, Prospero repeats quickly like a modern bush rose, but it's a very small plant. WS2000 repeats pretty well for me.

Many of the big rose plants that throw long canes can't repeat strongly, because they are busy throwing long canes, duh. They bloom on many short laterals in spring, and maybe later at the end of long shoots that may take 10 weeks to develop and flower. But midsummer whips of some roses (like Othello) often won't bloom until the following spring.

"Which roses would be more restrained and offer more blooms more often?"

'William Shakespeare 2000' has been superior in both regards, in my experience. YMMV, of course.

WS2K superior to both, appears to have a shapelier growth habit on its own roots vs. grafted. 'Tradescant' has been very good here, but a dud for many. 'Prospero' very good but no fragrance and needs several years to establish. Look at 'Young Lycidas', very good repeat, lovely fragrance, but I've only had it 1 year, can't describe in detail. Munstead Wood new this year, I'm looking forward to seeing how that one performs.

'Prospero' is fragrant to me, but who nose?
;)

Since I'm adding this rose to a current order, I am very limited. They don't have my 1st choices which are Munstead Wood, The Dark Lady or another WS2000. They, also, don't have Maggie. They do have Prospero which I have one of, but it's brand new and I haven't seen it bloom yet. It sounds like Othello's blooms would be gorgeous, but I'd have to put up with the bs and few blooms.

So, now I'm choosing between getting another Prospero, trying out Othello, or they have these HPs: Alfred Colomb,General Jacqueminot, Souvenir d'Alphonse Lavall�e. They also have Madame Isaac Pereire.

So much for narrowing it down. Any thoughts or comparisons on the above roses would really help.
Thank you,
Kitty

What zone are you in? I tried WS2K but it didn't survive the winter. I have General Jack and Madame Isaac Pereire but they don't bloom much. There are only a few OGRs that have reasonably good repeat such as Rose de Rescht, Reine des Violettes and Jacques Cartier. Tradescant blooms pretty good and is vigorous. Does your rose place have Generosa, Delbard, Clements, Buck or Romantica roses?

Hi Predfern,

I am in zone 4. I do have WS2K, but I have been tipping it because I love it so much. I will not be able to do that this winter as it is getting too wide. I will try mounding dirt putting mesh around and filling with leaves or mulch.

I have Reine des Violettes which I'm concerned may have RRD.

I forgot that Rose de Rescht was really the #1 on my list, but they don't have that either.

I haven't looked at the Romanitica roses because I was under the impression that they are less hardy than Austins. Is that not true?

They don't have Generosa or Clements. They have some Delbard, Buck and Romanticas.
Kitty

Kitty, you might get another Prospero and plant it very close to the other Prospero so it looks like a single plant. I have three close together in order to make a good show. mike_rivers grows Prospero as a dieback shrub in central Michigan z 5 and likes it.

Zone 4 definitely limits your choices. Romanticas would not be hardy. The only Romantica to survive in my garden is Bolero. I am still experimenting with Delbards. Nahema is a good climber. Madame Bovary throws out very long thorny canes so it sounds similar to Othello in that respect. The blooms smell like baby powder. Many Buck roses are not very hardy. I would recommend Quietness. Here is a link to a discussion about which Delbard roses do well in cold climates. Madame Figaro did not survive the winter in my garden. Dames De Chenonceau has survived and looks like a candidate for pegging this spring.

Here is a link that might be useful: Delbards in cold climates

Michaelg,
I think I might grow Prospero in a pot at least at first to see how it does. Do you find Othello to be any hardier than WS2000 or Prospero?

Predfern,
Thank you for the link. I will check into them. I've had good results with some of the Austins. The Wedgewood rose survived and I just buried it deep and threw some dirt on top right before winter. St. Cecilia survived a windy spot on the North side of my house with zero protection (I forgot about her). I just planted her deep.

Thanks,
Kitty

Kitty, for the past 10 years or so it hasn't gotten cold enough here to distinguish degrees of hardiness.