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serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

Posted by serenasyh 5 Kansas (My Page) on
Sat, May 9, 09 at 2:07

Hi, I just received my 2 Heirloom roses, and man! I was in for quite a shock... the roses were so tiny like a tiny china doll-sized teacup and with the whopping price tag of a regular container own-root rose like Roses Unlimited. One of my roses looks very viable and strong, it has a new "pineapple" lovely stem growth and I can tell it will do well, as tiny and miniscule as it is... On the other hand I had to immediately call Heirloom about the other rose... It looks very fragile (leaves are the size of my fingernail-I have small hands too!) and many of the leaves were curled and yellow-green, not the strong green of the other rose... My inexperienced but very methodical eye could tell, that this "sapling" should never have been mailed... It does not have enough leaf maturity to endure the UPS travel time...

I also question the wisdom of sending such young plants... why not just wait keep them in the greenhouse for one year...that way they have enough root system developed ... these tiny "sprouts" can be no older than 1 month maximum... Even my tree rose baby leaves are 10x the size of these baby plant leaves.

The customer representative promised she would replace the 2nd rose if it fails to live and she did admit it was too soon to send out the roses... I did go ahead and plant them in pots, because the size of the plants worry me greatly... To me with such young plants would have no chance of surviving the sudden ice freezes of Kansas. My observational eye and intuition tells me that if a rose is only 4-5" in May, it will not have enough roots and strength and must stay in pots until next year... What has everyone else's experience been with Heirloom roses...


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I bought 6 Heirloom roses last year. The bands are small, but all 6 of them have done beautifully! And the first 2 which had a couple of months on the others are large, healthy, and beautiful. I was warned thay would look thiny, but take off, and they did.
kay


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I hear you also. I remember my first Heirloom order and I was really worried about the fragile (looking) little things. I have experimented with planting them straight in the ground and into pots and they have done well in both environments. I've only had one that languished and since it is the exception I think the plant was a bit of a dud itself and not the vendor.

Of course if they are really, really tiny something might not be right. You don't have a picture or two by chance? I've just found that with a little TLC their wee roses get right down to the serious business of growing and blooming once you make them comfortable.

Hope they do well for you.

Kate


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

Were they bands? They are small. I ordered 4 from Heirloom a couple of years ago and all are doing well.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I have found that you can't judge a young own-root rose by its appearance the moment it lands on your doorstep. What counts is what it looks like after 8 - 12 weeks in your care. However, there is nothing wrong with calling a vendor (regardless of who it is) and expressing concern if you think the plant isn't in good condition, just so they have a record that you had concerns if you need to ask for a replacement 3 months down the road.

That said, what matters most is that the plant has a good root system in the pot (do not shake the soil off to see, please!) rather than how much top growth there is. Many a one-inch tall stump of a rose I have seen grow to 6 feet in one season as long as it had a good root system, ready to grow.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I agree with tropero's statements. I never judge a band rose by the size. I judge it by the root system. I have had quite a few roses come to me in bands that are small, but have very strong root system. With in a few days of repotting it into 1gal pots, they take off. Remember RU's roses are already had time to grow in 1gal pots.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I've ordered the last two years from Heirloom (not this year, didn't have any room). All of my bands go straight into the ground and all have done very well. One of my best roses is Burgundy Iceberg from Heirloom which was huge in its second year last year. The bands start small but they're healthy and grow quickly. By fall you can't tell which of my roses were bands and which were bareroot. Heirloom is my second favorite place to order roses from with the first being Palatine.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I only ever got two bands from them last year. I put them straight into the ground. They are now blooming their heads off. I think if you order bands you need to know what they are. Also, if you receive a band that doesn't look great, take a picture, send it to the vendor right away and ask what to do. The vendors I have ordered from have been very helpful either in replacing such a band (this only happened once to me) or giving specific instructions on how to take care of it.

Masha


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I'm afraid I have to agree with serenasch, I received 2 roses last year that I put up in pots since they were so small. One did very well but the other turned black and died. Just to be safe I buried the good rose over the winter. I pulled it out of the dirt a few weeks ago, but so far no growth . I guess zone 4 is just too harsh for Heirloom roses.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

Thanks so much everyone for relaying your experiences. I am doing a quick tally of everyone's zones and my decision about planting them into 1 -1/2 gallon pots right away...(which is what I did as soon as I received them.) The strong viable one that I wrote about is very healthy looking and may have grown at least an inch since yesterday. I am one of those eagle eyed, obsessive people who tend to notice too many details... Thirty percent of the weak one's leaves have started to uncurl and straighten from their original limpness/yellowed appearance but no change in growth of course, and barely any improvement in color. Trospero, I would never ever shake out a rose to observe the root system, lol! sort of like shaking a newborn baby and causing damage to the brain. But for me, even judging bands, there's a lot of details one can catch by observing the spread of the leaves, coloration of the stems all that, even the veins of the leaves can indicate the age of the plant. A strong root system is revealed by these indicators. I do agree that you can never judge health by the size, but you can! judge health by the the factors I mentioned. My 2nd band will need a lot! of TLC. I can already tell. As I mentioned before, the strong one will be like everyone else's Heirloom success story. The second one I feel, just like the Heirloom lady admitted that it was taken out too soon. It will struggle for a bit. Athenainwi, thanks for including the specific brand of your rose. Your rose is very winter hardy, so it makes me realize that the pots are the best option for me. My specific rose will not tolerate 3-4 zones. It can only handle 5-10 zones.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

Next time don't move them into larger pots. Just leave them in the bands. I put the bands into a tray that has about 1/2 inch of water and leave them for a few weeks. Or you can put the bands themselves directly into the ground and keep watered. I've done that with plants that I got late in the year and simply replanted them in the spring. The roots will grow much denser in a few weeks you'll feel much better about planting them. There's no reason to put them into bigger pots if you're eventually going to put them in the ground - you're just disturbing the roots one more time for nothing.

Never had a problem with anything from Heirloom.

If you really want to be scared, order something from Sequoia.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

Next time don't move them into larger pots. Just leave them in the bands. I put the bands into a tray that has about 1/2 inch of water and leave them for a few weeks.

*** OUCH! This is very climate-specific advice. I wouldn't recommend it in the SW, where it is warm and arid.

If you really want to be scared, order something from Sequoia.

*** Every plant I ever received from Sequoia was well-grown, and ready to leap out of its container.
This is really beating a dead horse, as Sequoia Nursery no longer exists.
But when it did, customer concerns were treated with courtesy and addressed promptly -- something I could not say for Heirloom.

Jeri


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I received my order from Heirloom yesterday also and I must say the roses were very small. I went ahead and planted them directly into the garden. I saw no visible root system when I removed them from their pot but I planted it carefully as not to disturb the integrity of the roots as much as possible. I have a couple of roses from Heirloom that are about 3 years old and they are big strapping roses now so just baby them for this first season. I am experimenting with "The Prince" as an own root. I have another that is 4 years old and 4' tall but not own root. I sure love those velvety purple blooms and the fragrance is out of this world.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

"*** Every plant I ever received from Sequoia was well-grown, and ready to leap out of its container.
This is really beating a dead horse, as Sequoia Nursery no longer exists.
But when it did, customer concerns were treated with courtesy and addressed promptly -- something I could not say for Heirloom."

I second that most wholeheartedly. A big portion of my collection came from Sequoia Nursery, all as small bands or 3" pots. As for "Errloom", when I confronted them with a conspicuously virused plant of 'Raubritter', they were less than willing to admit there was a problem. That was the last $ spent with them.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

My roses arrived a week later than promised. They are all extremely puny. I know bands are small...but these literally measure 6" with 4-6 yelllow leaves on 2 of them. One band was lying sideways in the pot and obviously has NO ROOTS. Another has only 2 leaves that are yellow and brown and is only 4". These roses were a bit more expensive than RU, but I wanted to give Heirloom another chance after receiving poor service and a dead rose last year. I called them and was instructed to "Plant them in the garden immediately. Didn't you read the instructions we send with the plants?" I am really disappointed.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I can only say -- I WISH Sequoia was still in business.
The ranks of remaining quality vendors grow smaller every year.
Though we knew that loss was coming, it still hurts. Nothing has replaced it.
Nothing, really, could replace such a unique entity.

Jeri


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

  • Posted by hoovb z9 Southern CA (My Page) on
    Sat, May 9, 09 at 19:06

Everything I bought from Heirloom died.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

WOW..since I live in Washington state I was planning on ordering from them..thanks for the information. I will rethink. Perhaps Palantine or RU. My big complaint against RU is their website is diffcult to navigate..at least to me.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

Serenasyh,
I agree with your concern about size. I know, that wasn't your only point. But still, to compare Heirloom with RU, prices are similar and yet Heirloom's roses are tiny. I think there is nothing wrong with their growing methods. I just question the value the customer is getting for the money charged. Heirloom saves money by not housing and caring for their baby roses a whole year (or longer) as RU does. But why isn't that savings passed onto the customer. I enjoy Heirloom's beautiful print and web catalogs, and it's nice there is no minimum purchase number of plants to meet. But my only reason for ordering from them rather than another vendor is to get a hard-to-find plant that they happen to carry.
I just got my second order ever from Heirloom in December; two plants, Apricot Twist and Blue Moon. I have no doubt AT will be a fine bushy plant in a year or so. (Since I ordered it, I have noticed Nor'East has added it to their catalog (Yea!). My Blue Moon rose was 7 inches tall, with exactly 6 leaves, at least healthy-looking; and it has just sat in the pot I planted it in for the past 5 months without any new top growth. I'm sure it has been building its root system in that time. Only in the past 2 weeks hase it begun to sprout multiple new leaf sprouts. I expect to have a nice plant in about 2 years. But for the price, that's not what I consider a good value.
Sorry, Heirloom.

Mike


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

Zyperiris, have you checked out Northland Rosarium? I have never ordered from them but am still considering it. Nice and interesting selection, and they're in Spokane, almost your neck of the woods.
Mike


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

The Kordes climber Jasmina I received from Heirloom last September is still only about 10 inches tall with almost no noticeable new growth. I only ordered from them because they had a sale since I find they don't have many roses I'm interested in. Their old rose selection is down to only a few.

Ingrid


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

About the yellow leaves -- I think that the growers have to dose the plants with pesticide before they ship them out of state. That can stress out the leaves.

- Becky


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

The two plants I got from Heirloom - you guessed it, puny little things. Why they cost the same as 2 year old bushes in my neck of the woods is a complete mystery to me. However, the roots seemed pretty developed for such young plants. They haven't done anything yet, but it is early in the season and then I have to wait for the hot summer. Maybe in October I'll have some news.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

The roses I ordered from Heirloom last fall were about the same size as bands I'd received from other vendors--certainly they weren't noticeably smaller. Probably bigger than some of the smallest bands I've gotten from some of the popular vendors mentioned on this site. One (Midnight Blue) is trying to decide whether or not it wants to survive (can't blame Heirloom; it was a bad winter), but the others are doing just fine.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

**I can only say -- I WISH Sequoia was still in business.
The ranks of remaining quality vendors grow smaller every year.
Though we knew that loss was coming, it still hurts. Nothing has replaced it.
Nothing, really, could replace such a unique entity. **

Jeri -- actually there is a new mail order nursery in Visalia that is being opened by one of the Sequoia folk -- Burling Leong. I got roses from her last month -- same size and same price as Sequoia (very reasonable). She has no website yet, but her rose list can be obtained via email.
BurlingL AT aol DOT com is the email address.

I got
1 Lavender Spoon (budded) in 5 inch pot @ $6.95 (Special Price)
1 Kim Rupert in 5 inch band @ $6.95
1 Michele Cholet in 3 inch pot @ $5.95
1 Pookah in 3 inch pot @ $5.95
1 Cinnamon Stick in 5 inch band @ $6.95
1 Secret Recipe in 3 inch pot @ $5.95
1 Purple Buttons in 5 inch band @ $6.95
1 Hoot Owl in 3 inch pot @ $5.95
1 Bayes Blueberry in 5 inch band @ $6.95 (Special Price)
1 Green Ice in 3 inch pot @ $5.95
1 George Pernet in 5 inch band @ $6.95 (Special Price)
1 Flower Power in 5 inch band @ $6.95 (Special Price)
1 Smoke Signals in 5 inch band @ $6.95

and shipping for all of that was only $11.50.

Very reasonable -- both as to the size and quality of the plants and the prices, as you can see. All are doing well, but so far my favorite is Pookah. It has adorable little single hot pink blooms with white eyes that come in sprays.

Kathy


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

  • Posted by jont1 Midwest 5b/6a (My Page) on
    Sun, May 10, 09 at 4:32

I have been really disappointed with my Heirloom orders as well.
I have purchased three bands from them each of the last three or four years and I don't have a single thing to show for any of them.
For some reason they just seem to never grow at all and just agonizingly slowly die in about a years time.
I have tried everything I know. I have left them in their band pots, transplanted them into bigger containers after letting them "unwind" from the trip in their band pots for a week, and planting them directly into the garden. But, not a thing has made a difference as they all die.
I am always concerned when I get the bands because they are so tiny and puny looking when they arrive. They are usually packaged well enough and are still moist which is good but it makes no difference.
Last year I ordered Leonidas, Remember Me, and Nicole. Nicole went straight into a 1/2 whiskey barrel right next to my garage door. Leonidas and Remember Me went into 1-gal. containers. All three did just barely make it through the winter in their respective containers with the rest of the "Pot Ghetto" in my unheated garage. Come this Spring, they all had just one tiny cane left alive and since then all have completely finished dying completely. Remember Me finally bit the bullet just this past week, and it was the last to die.
I wrote to Heirloom explaining my difficulties and frustrations with their bands. I want to order many from them as they have some Harkness roses that I really want and aren't available anywhere else I can get them from. But, I am not going to order them if I can't get them to thrive. I explained all this in my e-mail and they replied that they would have their head grower call me on the phone to discuss the problems and figure out what is going wrong. That was last week and I still haven't heard anything from him.
Personally, I think the biggest problem is that the plants are way too young, small, and tender to be sent out to customers. I think they need to copy more of what Pat Henry at RU does with their roses. Otherwise I am afraid most people will discontinue buying from Heirloom and they will end up going out of business like so many other on-line vendors have.
I will post what transpires in my conversation with Heirloom's grower if/when that call ever comes. Maybe I will learn something that will help us all with their plants.
By the BY, I am not a novice rosarian or gardener in general by any means. I currently have about 250 roses in my gardens and usually purchase anywhere from 15-30 roses per year. I mostly order bareroot and budded maiden roses and have generally wonderful results. My roses are all healthy and beautiful and my roses are famous all over town. I have people come by almost daily in blooming season to just see my roses and ask questions on how to grow better roses. My garden is part of some tour group agendas. My rose garden has been written up in a full 2-page spread with photos in the local newspaper. So, I do know what I am doing. I just don't have any luck with Heirloom's roses for some reason.
John


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

Kathy that is exciting news about the new nursery in Visalia. Are we talking about Carolyn I presume! I sent her an email and really can't wait to hear back from her. I had high hopes she might try to open her own nursery. Thanks for that.

Also on the topic of Northland Rosarium in Spokane I have now made two different orders from them. I was very pleased with both. I ordered two roses Coffee Bean and an Angel Face. Arrived very happy and healthy and yes appreciably bigger than any rose I have received from Heirloom. I will be making future purchases from them.

Kate


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

Jeri -- actually there is a new mail order nursery in Visalia that is being opened by one of the Sequoia folk -- Burling Leong.

*** Yes. And Burling is a straight-up person. :-)
I gave her my teeny Crepuscule so that it can grow up and make bud-wood.

Jeri


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I am SO grateful for this thread. I was going to order several from Heirloom..I think now I will NOT. I will go to Palantine..and the others and wait for next bare root season..is that fall? Or next spring? I can always go to Raft Island roses here in Gig Harbor. BTW-if any of you NW people are planning a trip to Raft Island..let me know..I would love to meet you there. Debfromseattle@aol.com


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

Guys, I am literally fuming!!!! An entire stem (5 tiny leaves on it) of my very sick band shriveled away, I had another leaf from a different stem fall off... This is beyond ridiculous... Jont1 amen to all your comments that these bands are WAY TOO YOUNG TO BE SENT OUT! They will never ever! survive Midwest fluctuations of winter (mild one moment bitter freezing the next)... They need to stop!!! this practice of sending out such tender shoots...Stems and leaves need enough thickness to be able to store nutrients to the plant, and this takes months to reach enough development. All weaker, thinner stems even on a strong healthy rose will die back during the winter. It's only logical.... A baby plant can't possibly reach the thick cane strength to survive Midwest severity. Same goes for leaves. Without strong big leaves, less nutrients will be absorbed into the plant... Likewise, thick stems are needed to have enough cell wall thickness to cope with dieback. My tree rose had such a wonderfully thick cane in it, that it was able to isolate a canker and grow one of the tallest stems on the other side of it... To me bands doesn't even describe my sick baby plant. It's like a sprout, only 1/3 the size of my other one. I need to call up Heirloom to try to get a refund for the sick rose. To me, trying to save money by not keeping "sprouts" in the greenhouse longer is not worth the sadness of a killed rose that one has tried so hard for an entire year to bring back to life, only to have it languish and die. It becomes no better than a puppy mill in which you're just churning out puppies without thought to the welfare of the puppy. Just swap out puppy for rose as the descriptor, and those are my thoughts!


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

But it is what they have always done.
And it's not like no one's ever mentioned the problem.

Actually, being in a mild-climate zone, I didn't find that problem as troubling as the mis-identified roses. Or the unhappy habit they had of backordering things permanently.

Jeri


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I have emailed requesting a refund for my roses. Never again. I will stick with Roses Unlimited, Chamblee's, High Country and a couple others for HEALTHY own-root roses. This place is ridiculous.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

Heirloom roses do well for me if I order & plant them in the spring or early summer. If I plant in the fall they always die the next spring. I live in a mild climate too. Northland Rosarium is absolutely my favorite. Her plants take off immediately when planted in the ground.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

My Heirloom order of 7 roses came Friday. Ouch! they are SO small. I have ordered from them twice before,and they were NOT this small. I will leave them in their band pots for a few weeks before planting direct. I have nothing but own root in my garden because of my zone and hope for longevity so small is nothing new to me but really. I hope all my fears for these little ones will evaporate with this growing season.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

It seems that all suppliers of bands are located in the far west, & I've assumed that the fragility of the bands I've ordered is at least partially due to their transcontinental journey to my garden. The trip seems to take at least one full week. According to the on-line tracking log, this year's Heirloom order spent almost 3 full days languishing inexplicably somewhere in Utah.

Vintage's shipments from CA generally reach me more quickly. However, I don't see any difference (in either size, quality or survival rates) between Heirloom's product and Vintage's. The only notable difference is price -- with Heirloom being more expensive by several dollars.

Northland Rosarium's bands are in a class by themselves. They are only slightly less expensive than Heirloom's, but they tend to be far superior to bands provided by the other suppliers I purchase from. I suppose there must be valid reasons why there are such differences in size/quality, but I haven't any idea what those reasons might be.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I have ordered from Heirloom many times, yes their roses are tiny- it's a fact. But all of them did wonderfully in my garden, not one died.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I, too have had mixed results with Heirloom. Not all of my plants last year made it although the ones that did are doing well now.

I did break down and order again this year. I received my order around 4/15 and here is how they are doing so far:

Photobucket
Photobucket

These seem to be faring pretty well.....there is only one that is looking a bit peaked. About half already have little buds which I don't have the willpower to pick off!

One thing that discourages me, personally, from ordering is that I can place my order in Jan/Feb and not receive it until April. I'm sure that is because of THEIR growing season but I can plant stuff here in January and to have to wait that long is not desirable.

Lynn


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

All of my Heirloom roses have performed beautifully. No complaints here.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

Just wanted to say thanks for posting your pictures TexasLynn, it again emphasizes how poorly the bands I received are... For my bands even if they are at their healthiest and optimum it would take an additional 3-4 months to get to the "humongous size" of your bands (yours was taken less than a month from when I received my bands...) I've seen my healthiest Lincolns and Queen Elizabeth and I know their rate of growth as a comparison. But at least I can credit Heirloom for giving me an immediate refund for the sick band... I am satisfied with one band, because as small as it is if I keep it in the garage over the winter it should be o.k. It's one new stem is an absolutely gorgeous magenta red. On the other hand that sick band is in trouble. And whenever I look at it, it is hard for me not to blow my stack. I get very attached to my roses no matter how sick they are, and hate to see it languish. Like I mentioned before my sick band is 3" tall! it would fit into a child's dollhouse teacup and was taken way too soon out of the greenhouse. To me a band should be at least 6"-8" at the very minimum before it is sent out. And it shouldn't have 85% yellow leaves! Also I still look at the "success" stories; you all are in mild zones...not our 4-5 zones... For us-cold zoners, I would urge large pot containers to bring in for the winter...


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

Roses Unlimited has the best quality mail order rose bushes available, in my opinion, and will always be my first choice. I have also gotten satisfactory bushes from Antique Rose Emporium. As far as cost goes, these two places have the best value for the size of plants received.

The only time I order bands now is if that is the only way to get a particular rose, and then it is from Vintage and Rogue Valley Roses. Vintage's are usually a little more robust, though I've gotten some great Barden roses from Rogue Valley this year.

Sandy


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Enough with piling it on

My, this has turned into a one-sided b1tch session. Any nursery can have a quality problem and ship out a rose that isn't ready for shipping and is never going to make it. They made a mistake. We get it. You notified the vendor, and they said they'd make good on your purchase. This is between you and Heirloom. Let's move on.

Whether cold climate gardeners can grow on small rooted cuttings in a single season is a different issue. Somes can, somes can't. That's an issue of the skill and willingness of the gardener. If you're not skilled or willing, then you need to shop the rose vendors and pay for 2 gallon own root or budded roses.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I'm almost done pruning, and all four of the roses I ordered from Heirloom last year are alive and starting to grow. I don't think there was any skill involved on my part, like all my plants they just get a hole in the ground and some water when it doesn't rain and fungicide when I remember. The roses I ordered last year were Acapella, Papa Meilland, Folklore, and Distant Drums. I think Papa didn't bloom for me last year but the others did. I ordered them from Heirloom to get healthier plants than the local grafted and possibly virus infected versions.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

  • Posted by hoovb z9 Southern CA (My Page) on
    Mon, May 11, 09 at 17:28

My, this has turned into a one-sided b1tch session.

I'm confused by this comment. For example, acadia2431 and msjam2, stated they received good plants they are happy with. TexasLynn's photos show beautiful, healthy young plants. Some of the comments are positive and some negative. Not all are negative and not all are positive, therefore "one sided" seems in some respect inaccurate.

As the thread continues, more information is coming out. TexasLynn's health plant pictures come late in the thread (so far). If the discussion is cut off, we might not have gotten to see the pictures. What is wrong with having a long rambling discussion? Must we rush?

I mean no disrespect in any way.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I like Berndoodle sure too feel very uncomfortable reading a thread like this. Any customer should always contact the vendor, before posting anything about "serious concern" on public forums. I somehow understand the original posters concern and it was adressed swiftly and honourably by the vendor.

When we order mailorder plants we sometimes get smaller plants. I have sometimes had concern - but over the years I have learned to care for even small plants and know that they may take a little longer to get established and perform well. I have gotten roses that have traveled more than 4 weeks in a box survive, in spite that they were totally molded. I totally blame the shipping company! The vendor replaced the roses that died. Kudos (the roses were however just as small and miserable and definetely not the quality of plants I am used to getting) - well I pot them and nurse them and do what is needed to care for them until they can be planted in the garden.

Imagine if I started threads about every small plant I got mailorder - and wrote daily updates up the state of every little leaf on a public forum - after the vendor had given a refund? Gee I think I would have at least 20 threads going on different GW forums, about my "Serious concerns".

I dont think it is fair to treat busineses and the people who run them like this.

I think as our experience as gardeners grows over the years, we learn not to sweat the small stuff. We learn patience and sometimes we receive a plant that is dud/even dead, and maybe have to wait until next year to get it replaced by the vendor (because of the season). No need to make it a big deal and harm a decent vendor, by wenting on a public forum.

Yes we probably worry more in cold zones than warmer .....But life is too short to have "serious concerns" over a plant costing &17 + shipment.

Now vendors that repeatedly treat their customers poorly and unfair - that is whole other story!

athenainwi: good choices - Papa Meilland is a challenge in cold zones - even in milder zones. But each flower is divine gift that makes my head spin and my soul sing. I would grow it even if each plant only produced one flower every year!


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

"Now vendors that repeatedly treat their customers poorly and unfair - that is whole other story! "
As I stated in a post above this is not the first time I have received questionable service and products from this particular vendor. Numerous others also mentioned this vendor by name in a thread discussing vendor satisfaction. It seems that there are several of us that have concerns about the quality of the product.
I don't think this is being unfair to Heirloom. Please...$17 + shipping per plant is a big deal to me. To pay a total of $47 for a 3" rootless twig and another 5" broken twig with brown and yellow leaves is poor quality and service. There are others that have posted positive experiences. Fair enough.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I have many roses in my garden that came from Heirloom, every year I order a few. All are happy growing bushes now. Sure they were small when I got them, but so were the bands from Sequoia, Ashdown and RVR. Roses are a long time affair for me, I will wait for them to grow.
Olga


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I think as our experience as gardeners grows over the years, we learn not to sweat the small stuff.

*** Well, now, WAIT!

I wasn't going to say anything more here.
But vendors who NEVER deliver what you paid for (and don't offer to refund the money at some point) are -- while clearly not hardened criminals, certainly deserving of a bad customer rating.

And if a vendor has consistently disappointed you, I think you have a responsibility to be honest with others about that.

Heirloom is a vendor I wish I could recommend, but I can't.

Simple as that. They're probably lovely people, but my experiences with them have been almost wholly negative, and we do not recommend them.

Jeri


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I believe threads like this are of value & provide a type of service. For one obvious thing, this thread serves to educate folks about bands -- what they are, and (most importantly) what they aren't.

For the rose cognoscenti here, this discussion may be somewhat pedestrian -- even offensive; for many, however, *band* is a foreign concept, and it's likely that a rude awakening is in store when the first one arrives on the doorstep of anyone who happens to be among the uninitiated.

Those who object to the exchange here might remind themselves that instant global communication (much of it anonymous) has forged an entirely new paradigm of social discourse, whether we like it or not. When factors such as current economic realities enter the mix, it's small wonder that people vent their frustrations when there's a readily available 'release valve' like this forum.

Gentility has long since flown the coop; a certain level of civility is about the most one can hope for these days, and I personally don't think any of the aggrieved here have crossed the line.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

Cup-don't "WE" me..you don't speak for me. I, for one appreciate the information. There is nothing wrong with this conversation


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Agreeing with Zyperiris

I do agree with Zyperris, there's nothing wrong talk about a vendor, as a matter of fact, I wish this conversation brought up before I bought mine from Hairloom.

I am new to grow rose and I just received 3 from Heirloom, (2 regular shrub and 1 mini,) not only they sent me the wrong mini, also the other 2 plants are small and have very few branches on them, I did everything they mentioned on the instructions -- bone meal, huge hole, watering regularly now it's been 2 weeks since I planted all of them and so far I only see 1 set of new leaf came out from the Neptune; maybe I should be more patient but I certainly wasnt expecting this, my grocery store purchased rose grown 3 times as large for the past week than these ones. At first I thought the roses are smaller just because they are different breed, now after reading the post, I know what to expect from my second order from Hairloom, 2 more on the way and I am sure it will be the same thing again. (they sent out 2 weeks late) MAYBE $100 for 5 tiny roses is not much if they are good quality roses and the company has good services, but so far, I am frightened.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I wasn't going to come back to this thread, but I have to say, just to keep my conscience clear, that I agree with berndoodle and Niels. I have had problems with bands from other vendors, and I don't think it is deserving of such sweeping conclusions. Do we really need fewer rose vendors?

I think if someone orders a band and it dies it doesn't necessarily reflect on the vendor.

I have read comments here from people praising Heirloom roses, such as Louise Clements and others. I hope they have not been intimidated into not posting in this thread.

I feel bad about easily manipulated public opinion hurting a vendor especially a vendor having its own breeding program, especially after all the appeals to help Vintage and Ashdown, especially by people like Paul Barden. It looks bad.

I am sorry to post such a hostile comment, but I would feel bad if I chickened out and kept silent.

Masha


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

Masha, after I read further and found a few posters who like Heirloom..I think I may in the future buy from them. The information was helpful


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I do not have a problem regarding buying bands. I have purchased bands before and they did well. I understand that bands are smaller and require patience and TLC. However I need a healthy band to start with.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

Folks, if you receive a dead rose, if you are a gardener worth their salt..you ought to be able to bring it back it life! Sorry...lol..I thought I would interject some humor here


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I will reiterate, I won't buy plants from Heirloom for the following reasons:

1) At least 30% of the OGR's purchased from them between 1998 and 2003 were incorrectly labeled. In one instance the rose was replaced three times and each one was incorrect. ('Reve d'Or')

2) Several of the roses bought during this period show clear evidence of infection with RMV. When I spoke with a staffer at Heirloom, it was implied that the roses became infected after they were planted in my garden. They were not replaced.

3) Heirloom's plants are the smallest and the most expensive on the market. Most every other nursery offers better value for the $$.

4) In 1998 I sent several plants of my first hybrid 'Joyce Barden' to Heirloom for testing. It was agreed, on paper, that they would not sell this without my written permission and without a royalties contract. No feedback was ever offered, but three years ago people reported buying large plants of the rose from the sales cottage. Think what you want about this.

5) Somewhat unrelated: a well-known garden writer friend of mine was at Heirloom touring the garden and taking photos. One of the owners of Heirloom spotted him and chased him out of the garden because it was assumed his photos would end up in one of his publications without giving credit for where they were taken. I found this both laughable and sad.

Taken as a whole, these issues have brought me to the conclusion that Heirloom provides a service that, for me, is less than satisfactory. I choose to spend my money elsewhere. This is not about their plants being small or incapable of growing; many plants in my garden came from Heirloom and have made substantial shrubs. Several other nurseries sell/sold plants of comparable size and quality (Sequoia often shipped very small plants as well) but their prices were always better than Heirloom. Every nursery occasionally and unintentionally ships a plant that is not mature enough to ship, but that doesn't make them a bad nursery. However, selling virused roses in contradiction to their supposedly aggressive virus "policy" is something I deem unacceptable. So is selling numerous OGR's under incorrect names. While I am by no means interested in supporting a "pitchfork crusade" against this or any other nursery, I think its fair to be critical of these issues.

Paul


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

zyperiris,

snort. SNORT. BAH HAH HAH!

Seriously, what seems to be a real problem is that sometimes people get roses that are not mature enough to ship. This seems to happen with MOST of the vendors, based on my experience and other's posts. I can see where that could easily happen--maybe one cutting (or a batch of cuttings) just isn't putting out roots like expected. How would the nursery know? That said, as a customer, I can't know, either, unless the roots are clearly visible at planting time (and then you run into the problem of root bound plants--I've gotten those, too.) Most of the nurseries have a relatively short time period during which they will replace the rose. So if a rose performs poorly & dies after the replacement period, I'm stuck with a bum deal when I dig it up and find virtually no roots.

I can appreciate the nurseries needing to protect themselves from people who expect free replacements for plants that are abused. But I am also EXTREMELY frustrated when I spend good money for an underdeveloped rose that dies past the replacement period.

I don't know what a good solution would be, but I'm starting to feel like I should just expect a percentage loss on band purchases.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

Well, no.
It wasn't the size of the band plants that ever bothered me.

It was about the mis-labelled plants, and the ones that were paid for, but never received (I call this "permanent backorder) that tipped my DH over the edge.

While the kindest of men, he does not enjoy being taken-advantage of -- so when he said:
"I will not give those people any more money," he meant it.

Jeri


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

  • Posted by jont1 Midwest 5b/6a (My Page) on
    Tue, May 12, 09 at 13:07

I think that it is the perogative of the people here whether they participate in a certain thread with their comments. I don't really think this thread was that caustic. I have certainly read worse.
As I said, I have purchased bands from Heirloom for the past three years and have nothing to show for them. All were very small and just couldn't survive.
I for one have learned my lesson and will not buy any more bands from Heirloom as I don't think they sell a product worthy of the price they ask. That is too bad as I would really like to have some of the Harkness HT's that they offer for sale. I think that Hortico offers some of them so I will stick with them instead. Their service and plant quality has certainly improved dramatically over the last five or so years.
John


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

In the last several months I have purchased three different batches from Heirloom. Two have died, two are in the ground struggling, three minis are in pots struggling. I guess their sales aren't so good after all.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

Well, this is certainly a very ripe subject.

Between 1991 and 1996 I bought 110 roses from HOGR. Of those 110 roses, 65 are still alive after all these years and some have been propagated many times so the actual number of roses in my "collection" attributable to them is many more than the original 65. I owe a huge debt to HOGR as some of my favorite roses and most outstanding landscape shrubs are the mature plants that originated with them.

Those roses have given me great pleasure for well over a decade and include 'La Ville de Bruxelles', 'Madam Hardy', 'Mme Legras de St. Germain', 'Mme. Plantier', 'Pleine de Grace', 'R. moyesii 'Highdownensis', 'Alchymist', 'Charles de Mills', 'Ispahan' and many others.

So why did I stop buying from HOGR? At the time they were shipping almost 30% mislabeled roses which I found extremely frustrating. Further, I could not count on them to ship when they said they would ship and I sometimes found roses would just appear at random times, sometimes too late in the summer to make it through the winter. Vintage Gardens started shipping sometime around then and I just found them more reliable.

So, I am grateful for the roses that I purchased from Heirloom and I am lucky to have had many years to enjoy them. I have purchased from many of the rose vendors over the years and each has contributed something substantial to my enjoyment of roses


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I've read this thread with some interest but it would probably make more sense to me if I knew what a "band" is. I'm assuming it's a lil' rose plant on its own roots. But then why not call it "own root"? Where does the term "band" come from?

thanks in advance for clearing up my confusion, Runs With Scissors


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

RunWith --

"BANDS" are usually "tree bands." Smallish, narrow but tall containers made for starting plants.

Maybe 2 ins. across x 5 ins. deep? Small.

Once out of the grower's greenhouses, you don't want to keep little plants in "bands" very long.

Jeri


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

Scissors -- There are a number of band suppliers . . . For starters, why not do some homework & go to the websites for a few of them (like Vintage Gardens, Heirloom Roses, Northland Rosarium, or Rogue Valley Roses) and read how they describe their product. If you've no interest in doing that, do this: When you see the term band applied to roses, think 'rooted cutting', okay?


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

And remember that, within the "band," you could have a barely-rooted cutting, or a little plant that is jamming roots and canes out of the "band" in every direction.
I have received both, at times, over many years.

Once out of the "band," you start growing a plant.
It's good if, months down the road, the thing turns out to be what you bought it as.

"Band" isn't bad. Or good.
It's what's within it that matters.

Jeri


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

Paul's detailed comments above are sobering, and have given me a new, more faceted perspective of the Heirloom enterprise.

Jont1's most recent post, however, is REALLY chilling. I simply can't fathom the existence of a rose nursery anywhere that's actually inferior to Hortico -- either for quality or for customer service. I keep seeing references to the 'improvements' at Hortico, and I keep taking the bait. Silly me.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

jerijen - thank you so much for your polite and informative response

windeaux - I did go to Heirloom's website. They describe their product as 'own root' but I couldn't find any reference to 'band' or 'banded roses'. Thus I posted my question here.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

If I had a nursery, I'd bend over backwards to ship out fantastic, healthy, correctly marked plants. My customer service would be incredible, too. Anyone in this day and age that doesn't please their customers is just plain nuts! With the internet sites, news travels FAST! This thread is proof of the pudding! I agree about the smaller bands from Heirloom, but I haven't had a problem with their plants. They take off very well for me here. Have had great results ordering from Chambless, Rogue Valley, and Roses Unlimited, as well. Have heard nothing but glowing reports from everyone who has dealt with Burling at Burlington Rose Nursery, too. She has an incredible number of hard to find roses, and her communication couldn't be better. I have a Spring order with her for 2010, and a special rose coming from Ashdown this week. Know that we take our chances when we plant this late in the season, but it's a nice challenge to pamper these Summer sale roses and see if we'll be smiling when they break dormancy in the Spring.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

This first Pic is Courageous a Heirloom Roses (baby band) purchased this year and planted May 15, 2009.
This pic was taken 19 days AFTER it was planted.

courageous young

HERES THE SAME BABY BAND NOT QUITE 3 MONTHS LATER

courageous 2

SWEET AFTON BABY BAND FROM HEIRLOOM 19 DAYS AFTER PLANTING.


young sweet afton

HERES SWEET AFTON NOT QUITE 3 MONTHS LATER

sweet afton


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

Jim - I've had similar success with the bands I purchased from Heirloom. I've only purchased at their season end clearance sale when the roses are $7.95 plus shipping. The bands I ordered were shipped very promptly, they were not mislabled, do not appear to be virused, and have performed very well for me.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I bought a Westerland rose in July, and it was small, but now it's 3x the size! Doing great! Maybe I got lucky?


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

Someone commented that all bands must be from the far west coast. Nope.. not. Ashdown ships bands and it is on the far east coast. Since that's where my last order came from, those bands had a long, long journey to Oregon, and they are all doing fine. I planted them up into gallons. A couple are growing, the other two are stable and fine but growing more slowly. I was completely pleased with them, especially after the first breath-holding week when I wanted to see if the smaller ones would crash and burn. They did not.

And they did MUCH better than the bands I got from a west coast nursery that ships bands as well. (I did handle these differently so it may be my problem, not the respective vendors, that explains the difference.)

I don't think this is a shipping issue per se.

Just a side comment.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I prefer RU, their plants are so much bigger. I have lost many of the bands I have gotten from Heirloom.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I don't think we ever had any Heirloom roses die on us.
Though sometimes frighteningly teeny, they did generally speaking grow well.

BUT so many of them were either mis-labelled or permanently backordered that we wrote them off as a source.

Jeri


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

The only problem at all I have with Heirloom is their prices. Which can be worked around, if you watch for sales. All the roses have been true to type, and none have died.

The worst luck with bands has been with Sequoia, which is a moot point since they're out of business.

One grower that used to be my sole supplier has slipped so far in quality and customer service that I probably won't be using them again. Charging for roses that are "too small to ship", and 8 months later I can't get a response from them if the plants can be shipped yet. Plus a problem with the wrong roses (again, can't get a response out of them.)

Never had problems like this with Heirloom.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I ordered two Fantin Latour roses this spring from Heirloom Roses and one miniature rose. I picked them because they were zone 4 and I hoped they would do well in my garden.

So far, all three roses are doing very well...and I had to move the two Fantin Latour to my front garden when my proposed rose garden was found by my neighborhood deer.

Heirloom roses warned me that they would be small when they arrived, but on their own root and would catch up quickly with other roses. Even with the move, the Fantin Latour are growing quite well and are catching up with the tea roses I bought at the nursery in bloom this spring.

I did ask them to delay my shipment until the end of May because of the crazy winters with late snow we've had here recently. They were happy to do so. It's my first year with them, but I found them to be very helpful. My only concern is that they are eliminating so many of their old fashioned roses I had hoped to buy since finding their website a few years ago.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

Let's revisit this..the folks who got bands last year from Heirloom..how did they do?


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I peaked at my William Baffin and he has lots of new buds all over his canes, and my Westerland looks almost as good as when I covered it, but I won't know more about Westerland until I uncover it. So far so good!
WB I didn't cover at all, no need to :)


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I have bought bands and small own roots roses from RVR, ARE, Vintage, and Heirloom. The best looking plants in general have come from Vintage. The bands from RVR and Heirloom are very small but they have all grown into strapping plants with the exception of the one I lost due to decapitation of the entire plant by a squirrel. I am good, but I was not good enough to save that one although I did pot one rose back up three times after being totally uprooted by squirrels and it survived. Roses are TOUGH.

I personally love bands. I like nursing them and pampering them and watching them grow up big and strong. The reason I order from a particular vendor is frequently related to their having a "special" rose that I want at the moment I want it. I am glad that we still have as many sources as we do. If I had to buy roses where I live I would be covered over in Knock Out's most likely.

I think it is easy to forget the sort of chaos that these vendors most of them relatively small enterprises with limited human resources must be working out of during the high season - sort of like we were at Christmas when I was in retail. We wished to do the best - we valued our customers but we always had some helpers who were new and green and even us old hands were not perfect. Sometimes in the heat of battle we messed up and sometimes I am afraid we never made it right. But we were not criminals intent on defrauding our customers not by a long shot.

If your experience is positive more times than not then I would go with that experience. And no, realistically I don't expect when dealing with a profit driven, people run business that sells a living product that life will always be perfect. I do hope for a reasonable response when it is not - so far - so good here.

Oh, and all four of my Heirloom plants are alive and well although I did retrive the first two out of the ground last spring and pot them up for a time because they were not thriving - they never caught up to the other two that I potted up first and then planted in the ground - but they are alive and healthy. That is another thing that I have found. I read all the advice for planting that comes with every rose I purchase but over time I have learned what works here for me and while I may modify my approach from time to time I depend on my own observations.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

Lottirose, You've received band-size plants from ARE? Hmmm . . . Never once in all the years I've been dealing with them have I ever been shipped a band from ARE. I've also ordered from RVR, Heirloom and Vintage. There again, my experience has been very different from yours. You rank Vintage tops in providing 'the best looking plants in general'. Based on my experience, I have to place them at the opposite end of the spectrum. Nevertheless, I keep ordering from them . . .


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

There have been times when I've lost bands from various vendors and in retrospect it very likely was partially or completely my fault. The bands do seem to vary in size and vigor even from the same vendor. However, there have been only two times that I've received mislabeled plants (from two different vendors) and in both instances there was the immediate offer of a replacement. Continuously or even several times receiving incorrect roses from one vendor, however, would seriously annoy me. There is so much anticipation and excitement about receiving one's coveted roses that being let down over and over would be a deal breaker for me. I simply wouldn't deal with that company again.

Ingrid


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

Jaxondel, I placed an order from Vintage last year for about 20 bands and they were absolutely outstanding. They were some of the biggest I've received from any vendor other than Eurodesert. I planted them directly into the ground and they took off and grew like gangbusters...and I'm happy to report that they all survived their first Zone 5 winter!! I'm a big fan of Vintage...


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

Jaxondel, you are correct that the roses from ARE are not technically bands as they come in larger pots and have a more established root system - so I misspoke. But truthfully after a short period the little rooted seedings do seem to catch up and even at times out grow the larger specimens so I tend to think of them as being more or less equal which they are not. On occasion I have planted ARE roses directly in the ground and they have survived, but again not done as well as those I pot on first.

But I will stand by my assessment of the roses I have received from Vintage as consistently being the best looking bands I have received. And more importantly, they have all taken off and grown vigorously.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I lost one so far out of five plants purchased in August from Heirloom. No luck in a refund. If you buy in the spring and they have a longer time in the ground you may have better luck.

The link below shows a picture of the best looking one I have that survived...let the picture speak for itself.

Here is a link that might be useful: my twig


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

  • Posted by maryl Z7 Okla. (My Page) on
    Mon, Mar 15, 10 at 16:18

Over the years I've ordered many roses from Heirloom and none have failed. I just measured one from last year that is now a sturdy 3 feet tall and seems to have pulled through the winter just fine - even though it spent all winter in a container outside. That may speak more to the cultivar then the Heirlooms expertise, but I certainly wouldn't have any qualms ordering roses from Heirloom based on initial size. I have to agree with Lottirose about bands. I like bands in some instances because of room constraints. I can tell myself that a small band won't take up any space as it develops, and if I decide I don't like the blooms, color, disease resistance etc., I have a much smaller plant to dispose of. This is what I tell myself anyway.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I just received my banded roses but I think they literally look like 2 sticks in a pot. I knew it would be small, but 2 sticks? I guess I was expecting something like a "starter" size rose plant, not literally 2 skinnier than a pencil sticks with maybe a few leaves on them. I was shocked and haven't wanted to complain to them, as I am not one to complain. I probley just won't ever buy there again. I saw a photo from someone else, and they looked way better than the microscopic thing I got for almost 30 bucks. The return emails they send also are totally not helpful, very quick, I felt almost rude. Not happy. Trying "longago roses" I've been reading about next, and she has the best feedback I've seen ever!


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

Notice this thread is very old, and the company has new management, so the complaints about service and mislabeled roses may not apply.

"Band" roses may be little more than rooted cuttings, or they may be a foot tall with some branches. That would be true of any nursery that sells bands. "One-gallon" roses are about a year old and might average 18".

Bands will usually make nice plants in time.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

What roses did you get? Might have more to do with the one you ordered we and being own root. Remember if you are used to buying grafted roses they are usually a couple of years old and on a fast growing root stock what is thicker to start with

This is a very old thread started before the new owners

My band is from a vigorous rose and the plant is already 4 feet tall. But I have several older bands that are still tiny, they also looked like a twig with a leaf but that is how that rose grows


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I have gotten two separate orders in the last three weeks from Heirloom roses. Each order had three roses and every plant was of superior quality. The new management is very accomadating and I feel they would like to hear about any complaints before the hammer falls.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

MMartin, I ordered my first roses from Heirloom years ago. When they arrived I too didn't realize what a band would look like. I was almost afraid to plant them they were too small. I followed the directions that came with them exactly and was amazed at the size of my roses by the end of just the first season. When you purchase bands you do get a very young plant, but I will tell you I truely believe you purchased from a nursery that sends out healthy plants. Plant them! Watch them grow! If you are unhappy with them by the end of the season that is the time to give them a call. Reputable rose growers like Heirloom normally handle complants responsibly, but I'm betting by the end of the season you won't have a complaint if you take care of your rose throughout the season!


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I've only ordered once from Heirloom, but all 4 are still doing fine. In fact, I had to dig up one of the Barrone Prevots I bought, and there is a new baby coming up from the roots. That's what I love about own roots.

I plan on ordering from Heirloom. I just got 7 bands from Burlington, and they are about the same size as Heirlooms bands.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

Last year, I received the following bands from Heirloom:

'Abraham Darby'
'Evelyn'
'Golden Celebration'
'Jude the Obscure'
'Paul Neyron'
'The Prince'
'Prospero'
'Rose de Rescht'
'Tamora'

I also received 'Indigo', 'Francis Dubreuil' (aka 'Barcelona') and 'Reine des Violettes'. The first two died (my fault), and the last one turned out to not be the same RdV as offered elsewhere, so I'm not counting those three.

Here's the order received April 2013 before repotting:

 photo 1984_10151393692162285_883046997_n.jpg


After repotting:

'Abraham Darby'
 photo 12426_10151394079902285_2060045098_n.jpg


'Evelyn'
 photo 48008_10151394080617285_1497443502_n.jpg


'Golden Celebration'
 photo 562617_10151394079772285_138284046_n.jpg


'Jude the Obscure'
 photo 62609_10151394080082285_1517168989_n.jpg


'Paul Neyron'
(This came later, and I don't seem to have a "baby pic", but it was about the same size as the others)


'The Prince'
 photo 521761_10151394087052285_1451350054_n.jpg


'Prospero'
 photo 534789_10151394080277285_828588958_n.jpg


'Rose de Rescht'
 photo 164652_10151394078762285_874819829_n.jpg


'Tamora'
 photo 420957_10151394079507285_932202678_n.jpg


They were grown-on for a couple months while I was getting the garden ready before being planted by the end of Summer last year. Here's how they looked this year:

'Abraham Darby'
June 4, 2014, lower right corner, and two long canes are cut-off in the pic
 photo 10294410_10152151283507285_293225581084554505_n.jpg

One of those two long canes cut-off in the previous pic, taken May 22, 2014
 photo 10345933_10152126119622285_359796022980709409_n.jpg


'Evelyn'
(remained in 2-gal container and gifted to a friend, but was 3' tall after pruning this Spring)


'Golden Celebration'
June 4, 2014
 photo 10428076_10152151279107285_4811729527660387060_n.jpg


'Jude the Obscure'
The tall, upright rose on the right-edge of the pic, taken May 22, 2014. There was another tall, thick cane which broke last year while I was cutting back a tree in the yard.
 photo 10371557_10152125845937285_8687398280924875762_n.jpg


'Paul Neyron'
June 5th, 2014
 photo 10420079_10152153377827285_1906678127543590340_n.jpg


'The Prince'
Lower right corner of pic, taken mid-May, 2014. It's recently put out A LOT of new growth since then.
 photo 1613867_10152103596432285_2879881324616905878_n.jpg


'Prospero'
May 31, 2014
 photo 10424232_10152143272462285_1623470334928176911_n.jpg


'Rose de Rescht'
May 28, 2014 -- some baby-canes flopped down under their own weight
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'Tamora'
(was pruned back hard because I moved it -- currently rebounding but only 12" tall)


Moral of the story -- don't be afraid of bands. They're small, yes, but that means cheaper shipping, and less worry about transplant shock. Give them a boost and they'll take off.

I should note that I received three bands from Heirloom this year -- 'Happy Child', 'Velvet Fragrance' and 'Vineyard Song.' They were MUCH more substantial than what I received last year, and were planted right away (without being babied in pots first). So whatever the change in ownership is doing, it's working very well. I'll definitely have no qualms about ordering from them again -- with one caveat. Apparently, there are a handful of OGRs with questionable identities. If you're looking for a well-known Modern, go for it. But be aware that their 'Reine des Violettes' and 'La Ville de Bruxelles' have been cited by others as being "imposters" and that this MAY hold true for some other OGRs. Perhaps this will change as the new owners go through their inventory. Errors from the past shouldn't be held against the new people running the show.

:-)

~Christopher


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I was hesitant ordering a band from Heirloom, but I did because they had a rose I wanted and I wasn’t sorry. Heirloom sent a rose with a good root system and it really took off. Here is a photo of my Tequila Supreme taken just six weeks after I received it as a band.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

And it's very subjective. Many people rave about Chamblees. I made one order from them, for 8 roses. One I am sure was mislabeled (it didn't survive long so I can't be sure) and I lost 5 out of the 8. Was it the roses, or was it me. I can't be sure. So since then I've always been wary of Chamblees, but every year my rose society puts in an order and they seem happy with the results.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

MMartin - yes, I agree with the others - please plant your tiny band plants, and let them grow all summer, and THEN decide if you are happy or not!

We frequently get comments on here from folks who have never seen a small rooted cutting in a band pot before, and go into immediate "band panic". I root a lot of cuttings myself just to plant in my garden, and some of them are WAY smaller than any small bands I have gotten from commercial nurseries when I plant them.

If well taken care of (put them into 1 gallon pots, leave in the shade for 3-4 days, then out into the sun, protect from critters, keep watered but DO NOT use chemicals, including fertilizers of any kind, until they start to establish themselves), small band plants will thrive and turn into large bushes.

I have ordered dozens of roses from Heirloom over the years, and have never been unhappy with the outcome.

Jackie


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I got my first order from them about a month ago, and I'm very pleased. Most of the bands had more than one main cane, which I really, really prefer.

As it turns out, Iris Clow has a bad spot (some canker or dead spot) about an inch from the soil on one of her canes. But since she has several little canes, I don't have to panic :) And she's been putting out growth below the spot, so even that cane is probably going to be ok (once the top is cut off).

I don't mean to mention the canker/spot as an insult to Heirloom. The many little canes are my point. Believe me, I've seen cankered canes on more than a few band orders in my time ;) For all I know, they don't show up well until being in a box and shipped to my humid region. If there is enough rose there, it's no problem at all. With Iris Clow, I think I even have THREE more 'main canes' left, which is so very nice.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I've never had a problem with Heirloom...
Now if you lived in a very cold climate with a real short growing season then bands might not be the way to go...


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I have been buying "Heirloom Roses" for many years. They do take longer to grow into bushes, unless you get something that grows really fast like "Dortmund" Took over side of my house in several years. Yes I have had some to die but mostly it was my fault, for not planting properly, not given them enough time to mature before they went into the ground, and not preparing our horrible clay soil well enough. If you want a rose to grow fast you have to buy it in pots for $40 or at least get a bare root rose. These little guys from Heirloom are only 1 year or two from rooting. It takes time to let them grow up. The one problem i did have with these small roses is I put plastic id's on them, which washed away over the years and now I have a bunch of roses I am trying to name..


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

This is a picture of Soaring Flight that was bred by Heirloom Roses. I have many roses from there and most did okay. When roses are this small you have to give them extra care and expect not to have a full grown plant for awhile. There have been exceptions. Soaring Flight grew up like crazy. It is a continual blooming rambler that is really amazing. It is over 15 to 20 ft tall and as wide. I keep having to prune it back to keep in bounds and to get some flowers on the lower branches. It is a beautiful pinkish yellow and is always in bloom except Dec through April. I also got a baby Dortmund from them that took over a huge part of the side of house within two years. But most of their plants do take patience and you have to plan on staying on your property if you want to see them grow up. The problem I have is that so many of these places stop selling their older stock and switch to the newest trend. With Soaring Flight, it seems they are out of the plant and no one else grows it since it was bred by Heirloom Roses. Now they are out of stock and they don't know if they will bring it back, which means I have to root my own if I want another one. But I did notice that my ORR have gotten a large and as healthy as my grafted roses.. so time will tell


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

picture of the top of Soaring Flight bred by Heirloom Roses, one of best continual blooming rambler I have had. to bad they may not have it available again.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

  • Posted by minflick 9b/7, Boulder Creek, (My Page) on
    Sun, Jun 8, 14 at 15:19

That is beautiful. One of my favorite pinky color schemes.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I have order six roses from Heirloom; all last summer. The bands have been very healthy and correctly labeled. I have had issues with other vendors in terms of mis-labeled roses. Fortunately the error was determined within a matter of months. One vendor replaced the rose, but RVR, despite requesting photos, after my making phone calls to them, and submission of numerous e-mails , they never followed through with a response. The error was not remedied. I expect there to be some errors with order fulfillment. These people are human, and look at what they are dealing with. What I really take issue with is a failure to remedy the situation, and that is why I will not do business with RVR. I have no issues with Heirloom and am happy to see that they have larger plants now.

Lynn


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I have had both good and not so good with Heirloom Roses. I have no problem with how they handled my orders. Always sent plants on time and in good health, although some were small. It took forever for some to get to a good planting size. Others seemed to grow like crazy and within 2 years have full size bushes..
Some though seemed not to do so well in the ground, but this may have been due to my not planted deep enough in our clay soil and they had to compete with the roots of a very large Monterey pine. Now have elevated most of my roses in beds and they are doing much better. Also digging out some of the large roots with a power saw in area of roses did help the rose, although my back is not really happy.. Several of the roses I had to dig out and replant in what I call my rose hospital, where all the roses go if they are not doing well.
Heirloom is not selling some larger roses but still it is limited. I would still buy from them but at this time in my life I am not sure that I will live long enough to see them grow to full size. I do like own root roses though.. Just had my second Dr. Huey from my two Royal Sunsets. So I do like the idea of own root roses but I would rather someone else care for them until they get a little larger. For awhile there my whole deck was covered with potted own root roses. Now that I have gotten most in the ground am very happy..
I have always had good service from Heirloom. Just hoping they will continue to sale Soaring Flight.. There are not a lot of us who have one and would hate to see it not available to others since it is the best continual blooming rose I have ever had.


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

Just an update, because I saw this thread in the current posts...

I received a one gallon rose from Heirloom about 3 weeks ago and was shocked! The size of the canes, the root system and health was like no other one gallon plant I have received. I don't know if this is their standard or a fluke, but I really hope they make more one gallon plants available if they are similar to the one I received.

I continue to be very happy with this vendor.

Lynn


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RE: serious concerns about Heirloom Roses....

I really was impressed w/ Heirloom and thought their roses were extremely healthy.

I purchased:
2 Henri Martin Moss Roses
1 Salet Moss Rose
1 Green Ice Mini

All of them are doing extremely well. I have one HM in part shade. All are growing very well, I planted them directly in the garden. The mini has even been putting off blooms for several weeks now.

I will be shopping with Heirloom a lot in the future.


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