Return to the Roses Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
Own Root V. Budded...Update

Posted by roseseek z 10, SoCal (My Page) on
Sun, May 25, 14 at 3:51

A few months back, to illustrate how budding and own root production can compare, I posted photos of these two plants. Today, to illustrate how significant the difference can be, I photographed the same two plants. Both are Mystique Ruffles, propagated at the same time, from the same cuttings received from the same parent plant in the same garden. The budded plant is still in its two gallon can; the own root still in its one gallon can as it has shown no evidence of desiring a larger can. Both are planted in the same moisture control potting soil and both are grown virtually beside each other in the pot ghetto.

The own root plant expresses some rust and has yet to flower. The budded plant has produced two flowers (both used for breeding) and currently has three more flower buds forming. It has no rust, but it is expressing some black spot. The root stock is Pink Clouds and it was propagated using Burling's Chip Budding Method. The shank is taller than is needed because I put multiple buds on it. Above the large growth from the lower bud is a smaller bud which is still alive but not pushing as the lower bud takes all the resources from it, like a stock sucker does from its scion. This winter, I will cut that length of shank with its bud, wrap and root it for a second budded plant.

Of course, there are some varieties which absolutely do not require, or even improve with budding. But, there are many which do. Plus, the budded plant resulted from basically one growth bud. The own root plant required multiple buds. Kim

.
DSCN7723
DSCN7721
DSCN7720
.
DSCN7724


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: Own Root V. Budded...Update

Great updated thread Kim!


 o
RE: Own Root V. Budded...Update

You might wanna show this to Paul zimmerman. LOL
He shown that own root roses establish quicker than budded/grafted roses, but it always occurred to me, "What if the root stock and scion are not compatible?" which might of been why his Grafted/budded rose did so poorly?
But this is awesome :P I my self am preparing root stocks for some budding and grafting of my own :)


 o
RE: Own Root V. Budded...Update

Thank you! Paul and I saw when walking the Ashdown fields in Wasco, the year Arena budded his plants there, some varieties simply didn't require budding. In particular, Mme. Alfred Carriere generated inch and thicker canes on those budded plants the first summer after budding. Others pushed begrudging inches of thin growth. It all depends upon the genetics of the rose, how suitable it is for where it's being grown and under what conditions. For every variety you give me that doesn't require it, I can probably give you one which does.

Here, and in many other less cold severe, longer season areas, many own root plants are going to do wonderfully. Put the same roses in shorter, harsher season areas and they fail. We've all read the posts from forum responders here about how they won't bother with own root plants because they don't flourish in their climates and conditions. Just as we've read those which won't touch budded plants for their stated reasons. But, you have to take your cues from the rose. Most WILL root, but not all will grow well own root. If you want to be sure to get what you're trying to propagate, you're best off trying several methods of propagation. Not all are going to succeed in every situation with every rose, everywhere. I received material from two of this series from the same person at that time. I struck both and budded both. The second variety failed as cuttings, but buds on another piece of Pink Clouds remained green and have only begun pushing growth this year. It's now starting to flower. It's also mildewing up a storm, which might well mean it isn't something I really want to use for breeding, but we'll see. As with the other, I inserted multiple buds on the same, longer whip of Pink Clouds. My goal wasn't to create a garden ready plant of either, but to establish them in my garden so I could begin playing with them. Once you have one plant, you're set! Then, you can generate virtually as many as you want. Also, as with the other Ruffle variety, I intend to cut up the budded pieces of this one to root individually this winter. I know I'll have one budded low, and very possibly other budded plants if I can successfully pull off rooting them. I don't put multiple varieties on the same stock. If one is virused, then all the others are likely then to be also. But, I will put multiples of the same variety on the same stock.
DSCN7726

.
DSCN7728

Yes, incompatibility between scion and stock might result in issues with the rose settling in. So could how the budded plant was held prior to planting. If it's held too dry and experiences desiccation prior to planting, there will be issues. We've all experienced where the plant sat there, dying back, drying out instead of breaking into growth. If the rose is one with strongly Foetida genetics, it's a kiss of death. Think Peace, Grey Pearl, Angel Face, Sterling Silver and all other lavenders, yellows and Pernetiana types. Foetida genes hate cold, dry storage. It's been strongly suggested for years this could well be why bare roots of those types are often seen as "devitalized" and often never regain their original vigor.

There are simply too many variables involved to accurately state own roots will establish faster and better than budded, OR vice versa. You can demonstrate that very often, MANY roses will establish and provide you with more propagation and garden use material faster if budded, compared to own root. (I don't blame you for grafting your own!) Kim


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Roses Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Please review our Rules of Play before posting.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here