The best thing to do with young floppy stems is tie them up to a support while the plant grows roots. Sonia will grow thicker canes but the smaller ones come first. I like the tomato ladders from Gardener's Supply Co. but anything sturdy will work. A trellis made of metal that pushes into the soil or a wood trellis supported by stakes that you can remove when the mature canes come in work fine too. The roses are big and heavy for the young canes and without support, the flowers are on the ground. Sonia's flowers are big heavy clusters and hang down many times naturally. When the plant has made a good strong supply of roots, it will begin to grow thicker canes instead of the thinner ones. There is no real timetable for this. Every plant is different. The best thing to do is mulch well and water enough so that your plant does not dry out and I feed mine a balanced organic rose food to compliment the horse manure mulch I use. I'm sure others will have some other good ideas for encouraging young own root roses. If you don't get many flowers at first, don't blame yourself. These big flowers are work for small plants to make and it gets easier for them as they mature.

The best reward for gardening patience that I know of.

Other than frequent black spot, Sonia's other chronic problem in these parts has been her desire to be a ground cover. Early suggestions were to "plant it at the back of the border" so it could lay down on the roses and other plants in front of it for support. Budded, there is just more of her to lay down on the job. Support is the best course of action if you must maintain her in your garden. Gorgeous scent and beautiful flowers, but a real disappointment of a bush. She's been gone from here for a looong time. Kim

After 3-4 years of watching a BUDDED plant of Sonia Rykiel lay her floppy-stemmed blooms on the ground, we gave up and removed her.

Yes, the blooms were lovely. Yes, they were fragrant. But what good was that, laying in the mud?

Jeri

I have to return and say a few words for one of my favorite roses. After the canes are tied up and get a bit of age they will support the new ones growing through them. I know it's not the prettiest plant. The canes shoot out at angles and are long. They want to bend down and the big flower clusters help pull them down. I always have a few bamboo poles pushed in to tie stems to for extra help and also a flat metal trellis to keep sonia off the walkway so she won't bite people passing by. But I feel that all of this is worth it. If there was another rose so wonderful and similar, I would have traded for it by now, but there isn't. And she also eats up space. I get smaller slender blooming wood coming off mature 5-6' canes that are self supporting. I suppose you love this rose enough to train it or you don't. I like to train climbers so I don't mind at all. This is my ideal rose in terms of fragrance+color+shape. It's just not an ideal bush.

'Bishops Castle' grows fairly horizontally. Short climber, for me.

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This is my 2nd year of Sonia Rykiel. She needs constant moisture to be upright, plus potassium. I gave her low-salt monopotassium phosphate, NPK 0-52-34, you can get that stuff through Kelp4less.com, free shipping.

Or sulfate of potash NPK 0-0-50 would give the potassium needed for strong stem, plus to fight disease.

My Sonia Rykiel is 100% clean, zero black spots here despite our 40" of annual rain. Below is a picture of Sonia Rykiel taken today, after 30+ hours of constant rain. See how upright her stems are, given enough water and potassium?

Thanks, Hoovb, for posting that pretty pic. of Bishop Castle. It took me an hour to find the NPK of Ingrid's decomposed granite soil: twice higher in phosphorus and potassium than nitrogen. Ingrid's bush of Bishop Castle is upright, big blooms, no floppy neck whatsoever.

Withholding nitrogen helps to deter that rapid weak-stem growth that attract aphids & mites, plus crawling branches. The soil that needs nitrogen are sandy soil or very acidic clay, below pH 5. See below link that shows PLENTY of nitrogen with clay in alkaline/neutral range.

I'm posting a picture of Sonia Rykiel bloom: its beauty, unmatched fragrance, and nice foliage makes it worth growing:

Here is a link that might be useful: Cornell University chart on nutrient deficiencies

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Fri, May 10, 13 at 11:36

But -- I suspect that those who do NOT live in a land of ample rain might not find this rose well-adapted to their conditions.

Jeri
(Living In A Land Of Little Rain)

Strawberry, I believe it. I would love to get even 20" of rain in a year. Beautiful green Chicago. I remember the first time I saw Maryland in early fall. It looked like pictures of Ireland to me. I couldn't stop staring at all the green everywhere. I was thinking that I spend maybe 30 minutes a few times a year tying a straying cane in. Most of them are not straight up as yours are, they sort of are at a 45 angle but some do go upright. They don't freeze so the old canes harden a bit and support the new ones coming up. Right now there are loads of growth all along the cane with groups of buds forming at the tips like you would see on a climber. I had some tips of canes blooming earlier and now I'm getting the growth off the midsections of the canes. Some of those are a few years old and maybe after flowering, I will cut them out at the base and let the new ones come in. Yours looks so tidy with all the fresh new growth shooting up. Mine's a big old girl and is easily 6' wide and 5' tall. I water Abraham Darby next to her and the water flows downhill to Sonia so she gets most of it. Firefighter in front of Sonia seems happy with the water too. That's a good spot for perfume roses so I thought Firefighter would be a good plant there. I wondered if all of you were exaggerating about Firefighter, but I see that it's going to be a great fragrance rose.

Here's a little posy of sweetpeas and Sonia Rykiel

I agree with Kim, Jeri, and Kitty that Sonia is hard to grow without plenty of water. With water-hog I learn to prune hard, so the root is bigger than the top growth.

My limestone clay releases calcium when it rains here .. rain water is acidic, pH 5.6. Both calcium and potassium regulate osmotic pressure of cell membrane, for firm plant tissue. Salt in chemical fertilizer drives down potassium, so chemical nitrogen is a NO-NO for water-hog with droopy stem.

Check out the link below for this excerpt: "Under salt stress the osmotic pressure in the soil solution exceeds the osmotic pressure in plant cells due to the presence of high salt, and thus, reduces the ability of plants to take up water and minerals like K+ and Ca".

Gypsum (calcium sulfate), neutral in pH, supplies calcium. Roses Unlimited recommends putting 1 cup of gypsum in the planting hole. Gypsum is also used to de-salt saline soil/water.

Thank you, Kitty, for that awesome pic. of Sonia in a vase ... I love all the pics you posted. I checked with Ingrid whether her upright Bishop Castle is own-root, like my Sonia Rykiel ... Ingrid's Bishop Castle is grafted, but she prunes it down in spring and after it blooms.

Here is a link that might be useful: Salinity stress in plants and cytosolic calcium

This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Sat, May 11, 13 at 12:17

When I put my Sonia Rykiel in the ground 6 months ago it was a flimsy little thing and with very thin canes that flop all over the place. Over spring and summer it has grown into a very dense mount of 4 x 4 feet with lots of basal canes as thick as my thumb. It flowers continuously and just about every single flower are packed with loads of perfectly arranged petals and are very large. They want to bloom several flowers per shoot but I disbud to only one per stem. The basal shoot that come up can carry 20 or more flowers if you do not disbud. Mine is grafted on Fortuniana and gets full sun in the middle of a paved area so extremely hot and dry in summer but this rose has not had a single scortched leaf I am very impressed! Also this rose is able to produce multiple side shoots from a single node. If a branch arches down it will produce side shoots along the entire cane rather than at the end like most other roses do. The overall effect is an extremely vigorous and dense bush with hundreds of large flowers which open in succession rather than all together. Did I mention mine is only 6 months old? I could not believe how quickly this rose grows. Repeat is very quick. The shoots will start growing before the last flush is over. I give my roses lots of potassium and sunlight so no weak stems. Even though the side shoots may be quite thin they still hold the weight of the large flowers. This rose does not rest in the 40 degree C summer heat. I do need to cut the flowers and bring them indoors if I don't want them to scortch in the heat but they last well as cut flowers so it works out fine. I think this would have to be one of the most floriferous roses I have ever grown. I read somewhere else that some people had problems with weak stems and the flowers are in the mud but not for me! It obviously enjoys lots of dry heat. Another one that flowers to this extent is Happy Child but it is not as good a cut flower. My Evelyn grew even bigger than Sonia Rykiel in 6 months but it put lots of energy in its long stems at the expense of flowers so I would recommend Sonia Rykiel over Evelyn if you like to see lots of flowers and a beautiful filled-in rounded bush.

Sonia Rykiel covered in new shoots and flower buds. No disease. I do not spray this rose. It is 6 months old in a hot an dry climate on Fortuniana. I cut all the flowers for indoors so no open flowers to see on the plant.

Where can one find Sonia Rykiel in the US?

See if Roses Unlimited continues to carry it.

I got Sonia Rykiel from Roses Unlimited just last year so they should still carry it. Lovely well-rooted gallons and Pat is a dear to deal with. Just be sure to email rather than call for a better response, as they're a small nursery with limited staff.

Cynthia

Has anyone tried growing this rose as a climber? Do those of you with experience with this rose think it would be a good candidate? I noticed several have suggested growing it as a pillar rose.

Or how about trellised up against a fence?

Roses Unlimited indeed has Sonia...just planted in my yard this week. And MKP from Kelp4less is on the way, thanks strawchicago for that tip! I grew this rose about 15 years ago and lost it to animal/disease pressure, but now I have her behind a fence. I’ve never forgotten the fragrance and beauty of this plant’s flowers, but I do remember those thorns and the droopy growth habit, which reminds me more of blackberries than roses. We’ll see if I can do better this time round!

I remember a plant at the Brooklyn Botanic Garden that stood straight up. It was next to La Reine Victoria and Autumn Damask. You could see visitors swooning at the fragrance. That was what inspired me to acquire it in the first place because they were planted in a half shaded spot. It's no longer there, unfortunately, since they replanted the whole garden.

Mine, in fact is inclined to droop. I am still waiting for it not to. Now everything is growing to gigantic proportions because of the coolness and wet weather we have been having. It has some blackspot, but oh, well. That's the tall bearded iris 'Bargain Hunter' and boy, it it tall. Almost as tall as me, but not flopping, mirabile dictu. This was after a terrific downpour last night, so Sonia isn't looking too bad, either, considering it's proclivities. My peony (not shown) had just opened and was ruined.

Very beautiful. This Rose is also available tr.ue Freedom Gardens

Does Freedom gardens do mail order, I wonder.

Yes, absolutely. 3 to a box for $20. FreedomGardens

Thanks for that. Wonderful info. Though I personally have no room at this time (unless I get rid of a lot of plants, always a possibility). Oh, G-d, they have Bella Donna!

I just received one from RU last Friday. I had two from last year, but one didn’t make through the winter, one looks like the root is still alive.

Vap, how is yours doing in the cold zone?

Gorgeous picture, Monarda! Summers, I don't actually have this rose... yet. It's on the "eventual" list after I get all the "must haves" Peter grows. :0

Last summer was terrible for my roses after the Spring flush. First, huge amounts of aphids weakened the plants, and then buds blasted with fungus or G_d forbid -- thrips. We had so much rain, with a cool, rainy, overcast spring followed by an infernally hot, overcast and rainy summer. I guess there was too much soft growth to temp the bugs and funguses. It was very discouraging. Never before experienced such a thing. I did pick a nice bloom of Sonia Rykiel for my birthday in early December. (My friend Nancy made the bud vase.).

Pink Soupert was also affected. Here are a few good ones, though.

Currently I have a couple going as freestanding large shrubs. When they get some hardened old canes, they stand up nicely and the new big canes get contained by the old ones so they don't flop on the ground. Well, I still get some low growing horizontal ones but I weave then in or I tie them up or else they just flop. Most of the flowers are coming waist high or higher. This rose is very good on a support like a fence or a trellis. It's worth the effort to train it.

I agree, it is one of my favorite roses, despite its tendency to be floppy. Mine is in a large pot.

Mine has never been floppy. In fact it is rather stiff. It grows very similarly to its possible parent Abraham Darby, with large thorns, awkward growth, susceptibility to thrips, weird die-back in the middle of the season, and need for lots of water. Despite the gorgeous flowers and exquisite scent, I’m debating whether to keep it. I’ll see how it does this season.

Sonia Rykiel bloomed better in a pot than in the ground for me.