My sympathies! I have some brand new roses and was wondering how I should fertilize them. Thanks for the warning!

My climate is hot, but not dry so I'm not your ideal advice giver. I keep all of my band sized roses in gallon pots in part shade until they start to grow bigger, and I never give them any fertilizer. Did you keep all of your bands inside? I think, in general, roses hate being inside. I don't have experience with that though, as all of mine have always been outside. I'm so sorry about your "babies!" Hopefully they can be saved.

I have grown hundreds of roses up from band-size, and I find most that die were killed with kindness.

My instructions are:

Repot the rose into a gallon-size pot, using good quality potting mix.

Partial shade (no baking in the sun) till the rose is putting out reliable new growth.

Fertilizer is okay. I use very dilute soluble fertilizer, like Miracle Gro, at less than a tsp. per gallon.

Water the pots when they are beginning to dry. The best moisture meter is your own index finger. Stick it in the pot ... if it's moist, don't water ... if it's dry, water. It's that simple.

When the rose is growing well and has increased in size, and there is a strong rootball in the pot too support growth, it's okay to plant it in its permanent place in the garden.

Connie

I'm out here on the Southern California coast, where the air is far cooler than yours, but we have had very good luck, over many years, with both very small band plants and things we've rooted here, in small band-size containers.

We also pot up to a one-Gallon. Here at the coast, we can usually give them at least half-day sun.

In YOUR climate, I would shade them. I've seen folks in AZ use shade cloth "tents" over roses (both new AND established) and we have done that in a rare heatwave.

We don't feed them.

That may be an excess of caution, but we're usually not in a hurry, and are happy to let them take their time to grow roots first. Just water and mulch, and a good eye to when they start to feel dry.

We rarely lose one, and when we do, it's usually because one of the dogs thought it looked like a dandy toy. :-)

Jeri

All 250 plus of my roses are own root and all of them started as bands. Connie's directions are perfect. Today I am breaking her rules, however, as I sometimes do, and putting two new bands directly in the ground. I can do this when I know the rose is good in my area, there isn't any competition in the area it is going into in the ground, and the soil/water situation is good. HP's and Teas can go straight into the ground here because they never fail. HT's? I always put them into pots first to see how weak or strong they are going to be.

I've grow/grown many roses in pots for over 20 years and many have started off as bands. So my first question for you is how big a pot are you putting the bands in? Initially they should be put in pots that adequately covers their root ball - say 6 inches or so - and then moved up in 2 inch increments (6 inch to 8 inch to 10 inch etc.) as they grow. Too big a pot leads to overwatering (obviously more soil then rootball). Next what type of potting mixture are you using? It must be able to hold moisture but also be well drained. Most of the brand name potting soil mixtures in my opinion need extra drainage (add perlite) for tender young roots. Personally I use a nurseries private blend of compost,bark fines, and sand (I still add Perlite) as opposed to something like Miracle Grow potting mix. If you have any private nurseries around where you live you may want to see if they carry something other then the box store blends. But if your nurseries don't offer anything like a homemade blend, just make sure that the potting mix you are using is very well drained and the pot is not too large for the root ball. As far as fertilizer goes, I usually use something like Osmocote after moving up from the initial pot to the next bigger size (6 to 10), and it's apparent that the roots have taken and the rose is growing. How do you know when it's time to "up pot" a rose into a larger container? Tip up the pot to see if the roots are growing through the drainage holes (or are visable). I know how frustrating it is to have lost all those bands, but without trail and error we would all still be living in caves. When you finally get one going, you will be so knowledgeable about how to do it that you will be giving instructions to others. Good luck.....Maryl

When I receive bands I put them in a shady area and make sure they're moist. Over a week to ten days I slowly move them to where they receive more and more sun, but generally make sure they have afternoon shade in my hot and dry climate. After that I always put them in the ground and put a thorny barrier of rose prunings around them to keep the squirrels and rabbits at bay. I don't fertilize at this point but do make sure they have plenty of mulch and water to help them acclimate, and I mix some alfalfa meal into the soil in the hole along with of course plenty of good-quality organic potting soil. I know almost everyone recommends potting on to a bigger size but I've had great success with this method without the extra bother. I think potting on is a great idea if you have any doubts at all about which method to use. I'm so sorry you've had such a bad experience.

Ingrid

Don't feel bad, I killed a bunch of bands a few years ago. I had them potted up in pots that were too big. I left them out, which was fine, except they became too wet and didn't get enough sun, so they basically drowned. Potted plants require almost daily checking.

I'm with Ingrid that I put virtually all my new bands directly into the ground after the same week or two of gradually acclimating to my climate and sun. Part of this relates to what Buford said - potted plants require almost daily checking and there are days/weeks when I can't set a foot in the garden, having a day job that requires intense amounts of my time. Besides, I'm truly hopeless with pots and have killed both philodendrons and snake plants inside, the ones that are supposed to be impossible to kill.

The tricky thing about trying that method in your zone is the water issue, since as dry as you are you should presume that bands in the ground need daily watering at first. One thing that would make the transition to ground much easier is mixing those water crystals into the native soil mix at planting along with whatever compost/alfalfa you might add. I swear by those crystals and I find that newly planted bands need it the most to maintain moisture at the levels they want it in the ground.

Another thought for your potted bands relates to the moisture, since I always run the risk of mine cankering if I leave them too long in the band pots or potted gallons (given my irregular and lazy watering habits). If they sit in too moist a soil, the tender bands are more likely to give up and blacken at the soil line and that has killed a few bands before planting for me. The question about inside is related to this - you really can't keep bands inside if you want to build long-term survival, even in pots.

Bottom line, though, is that we've all been there! I have about 3 bands that have already died in the ground from April planting and maybe 5 bareroots (not bad odds, since I always plant a LOT of roses each spring). What you need to do is keep tweaking your method till you find something that works for you, then not doubt yourself if someone tells you you're doing it "wrong".

Cynthia

I agree with everything Connie said, except that I would skip the fertilizer - good quality potting soil already contains fertilizer. It is very important to put them OUTSIDE - they HATE being inside! In your climate Ingrid gives good advice about starting them in the shade, and then moving them gradually into more sun. Even where I live, I have two little cuttings that I rooted myself, and I put them outside in bright shade for several days, and then moved them into the sun, but with shade cloth over them. It is easy to "cook" small roses - literally. I always pot mine up into 1 gallon pots for several months prior to putting them in the dirt.

Jackie

Ingrid,
I love the advice to put the thorny prunings around a new band (or mini). The biggest problem I've had is varmints making a smorgasbord out of baby roses.

I would avoid fertilizer but some root boosts such as Superthrive or such is not a bad idea.

It would not be a bad idea to mix some bagged manure in with the potting soil.

If you are in the hot area of AZ, buying in the fall and growing them as big as possible in the relatively cool fall, winter, and early spring weather will help. Now is not the time to try new ones.

I have to say, a lot of "bands" are barely rooted cuttings with tiny root systems, which are tough to get going in all but mild weather, especially if the cultivar is non-vigorous or finicky. So don't blame yourself so much. Try a more established own root plant than a "band" and you may have far better success.

Bagged steer manure is fairly heavy in salts, as much of it is the product of commercial feed lots.

In an area like AZ, where the water can be in the alkaline range, they likely don't need that, at the newly-rooted stage. Later, sure -- but even then, I'd avoid the stuff in bags, and opt for nice fresh horse. :-)

Jeri

Thank you all for the kind and informative responces. I will try ordering bands in the fall or 5stick with the gallon roses I can get from the good nurseries here in Phoenix. Almost all of those seem to be making it. I will pot my last bands in 1 gallon grow pots and keep them outside in the shade until I see growth. Maybe inside on the hottest days. I am thinking of getting a mist system (just for the roses) for my patio. I will try the 5 1 1 soil mix, and also try amended (with perlite)good black gold potting soil and see which works best. I really appreciate all the responces for my little minis.

I'm in the Phoenix area and in my experience, bands don't make it here if planted too late in the spring. I've have many die that I planted in April or later. It's just too hot. I've tried many ways to keep them alive but most have succumbed by the end of the summer.

Since I've mourned the death of so many bands planted too late in the spring, I plant them from Nov-Feb and they do fine.

I think you can plant older roses from the nurseries here in the spring, but not the poor bands.

You can buy gallon size from online rose nursery's like Angel Gardens, Hartwood sells half gallon, Rose Petals Nursery, Rogue Valley (they sell Paul Barden :)..)

I just got my Baronne Henriette de Snoy 1gal from Angel Gardens last week that is still in its pot I am about to put it in a bigger pot if it stops raining today.

I am going to have to wait until fall then to reorder or order more even of the gallon sizes. There was a wonderful patience thread on the forum, that applies to me :) There is not a whole lot that likes getting planted now in Phoenix with 111 degrees already. Maybe my mom will babysit my pots in Flagstaff!

Straight into the ground here, then covered with a gallon milk jug (bottom cut off). In earlier spring, top is on, in later spring, top left off. Gradually, as it grows and sets roots, I cut away the top to allow more air and light while still protecting the stem from wind and rodents.

I'd do this here in Kansas up till about July and then after September. I don't plant in July or August here....too much watering.

Here is a link that might be useful: Garden Musings blog

Roseshouter - you may not actually be to blame for the bands dying. Whoever is shipping to you in 100+F temps is partially to blame. Those bands are cooking enroute to your door. Planting any roses after May 1 can be brutal to both the gardener and the plant. I would suggest transplanting the bands into 3-5 gallon light-colored containers, using a rose planting mix, like Miracle-Grow. It's got a slow release fertilizer in there to help the roots establish without overfeeding. You get the same effect using Osmacote, which many local rosarians use anyway. The pot needs about 5 good drainage holes, covered with screening or weed fabric and 2-3 inches of porous material, like bark, pine needles, packing peanuts, gravel, etc. This will keep out cockroaches, slugs, grubs and any other critters looking for tender roots and cool soil. Keep the plant moist but not wet and keep in a semi-shaded area in eastern exposure. They should live through an average summer. Do the transplanting during the coolest part of the evening so the plant has the cool night hours to adjust. Vitamin B12 isn't going to help your plant ward off transplant shock. You're better off using a couple drops SuperThrive in each watering for the first week. Once new growth appears, stop the SuperThrive and wait to do more than water (no fertilizer, no sprays) until Thanksgiving time when the ground and air temps are both much cooler. By that time, the plant should be nearly rootbound in a 3-gallon container.

Hope this helps! Jeannie Cochell, Consulting Rosarian, Phoenix

Related thread:

Here is a link that might be useful: how long do you keep fall bands in pots?

Kind of the same here for my pot ghetto of about 150. I immediatly repot my bands into 1g pots with Miracle-Gro Moisture Control potting mix and let them be...no fertilizer, just water. They stay in the 1g pots until they have a good root system (when I can see roots through the bottom holes of the pots) and then they go into the ground. Haven't lost but a few :)

Tammy

Last year I got bands delivered in a heatwave and the pots were HOT when I took them out of the box. I thought.. fall ...perfect time to order and I really wanted the plants from that limited release list. Back to early spring ordering for me.