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chaoticdreams

Fertilizer Question

Chaoticdreams
10 years ago

This is probably going to be a loaded question and if it's the umpteenth one I apologize, but I'm a newbie and Google keeps giving me conflicting returns.

For container roses, which fertilizer is best? I've currently got in my possession, Rose Tone, Miracle Gro Rose food that you dilute in water, and Neptune's Harvest Fish/Seaweed Emulsion. Some say don't use granular, use liquid on containers. But the Rose Tone has directions for containers. Is the emulsion enough or should I use it with something else or just keep using it on my veggies and forget the roses? All the reviews, on Amazon at any rate, say all three are great. I don't know which to use. I just know using all at one time would probably be bad lol.

Thanks for any input!

Cas

Comments (14)

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I've used granular organic fertilizer in containers -- in fact, for the first batch of rose bands I potted up a couple years ago, I used Rose-tone. I used 1 cup per 2-gallon pot, sprinkled in layers as I added soil to the pot so it was mixed in well. This year, I switched to Jobe's Organic Knock-Out (no particular reason other than that it happened to be on-sale at the time), and for this year's bands, their first soaking after being potted up was done with fish/seaweed emulsion diluted to half the recommended strength.

    Since these were bands, that was enough to carry them through the rest of the season until they were planted in Autumn. If they were further along in growth (say, the second year), I'd also use the fish/seaweed emulsion at half the recommended strength once a month between waterings (where I am, the rain takes care watering pots until sometime in June).

    I wouldn't bother using the Miracle Gro or any other synthetic fertilizer until their third year (by which time they'd definitely be in the ground), and only if I felt that the roses needed an extra boost. Other people are fine using it for container plants, but I'm leery of the potential for root-burn in pots kept out in the sun (as roses in containers like), which can dry out quickly and leave a higher concentration of fertilizer in what little moisture remains in the pot. Personally, I'm ok with giving a Miracle Gro boost with a hose-end sprayer to things in the ground, since it's harder to hit the roots too hard that way. But like I said, other people do it and do it well. It's just a personal preference.

    The three of them feed at different rates. The Rose-tone will give a slow-and-steady feeding for a few months, but will need some time to break down in the soil before it becomes active -- probably a couple weeks to a month before the rose can actually use it. The fish/seaweed emulsion is a little faster acting, in that it will be mixed with water and will break down faster -- probably a few days to a week before the rose can actually use it. If you use that alone, you'll probably be fine using it once every month or two. Miracle-Gro and other synthetic water-soluble fertilizers are fast-acting immediate boosts, which means that too much may burn, and the nutrients will be used up faster, so it's best to use little and often throughout the season -- which, for you in Florida, will probably mean weekly. They each have their pros and cons, but I don't think you'll need all three.

    :-)

    ~Christopher

  • Tuggy3
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks Christopher. I found your post to be very helpful to me also. What do you think about bands that have been potted up this spring in Miracle Gro moisture added potting soil? Does your answer apply to these also since whatever is in that stuff will probably be used up mid summer?

  • diane_nj 6b/7a
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I use Rose-tone (actually, Holly-tone) in my containers, and that's about all that they received last year. If you use a water-soluble like Miracle-Gro, I always recommend applying at half-strength. Since you are watering the containers more frequently than plants that are in the ground, you are washing the water-soluble product out of the soil faster.

    I think you only need one type, and I would choose Espoma Rose-tone (or Plant-tone or Flower-tone or Holly-tone).

  • seil zone 6b MI
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I use all of those things on my container roses. I start out early in the spring with the granular scratched into the soil. Most of those are a slow release for anywhere from 3 to 6 months so I only apply it once in the spring here. The rest of the season I use the liquid foiliar fertilizers with the fish emulsion about once a month. Yes, you do wash nutrients out of containers quicker. That' why you need to fertilize more often, not less often.

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I wouldn't use potting soil with food already in it for bands. But, if you already have, then definitely don't use the synthetic water-soluble Miracle-Gro fertilizer for those pots. In fact, don't use ANY fertilizer for now.

    Leave the pots out to get as much rain as possible, and when watering by hand, give enough until water starts running out of the bottom. New bands often have tiny, baby roots that can be burned easily by synthetic water-soluble fertilizers, and it'd actually be better if most of that gets washed out as they start expanding into their new pots. That's why I used the organic granular for new bands -- it takes time before it breaks down and is able to be absorbed, and when it does, it's a gradual, slow feed.

    You can use the fish/seaweed emulsion about 2-3 months after you potted them up, since by then (I think), the fertilizer in the soil will be mostly used up. If you really want to use the Rose-tone as well, you can mix some into the pots in 1-2 months, since that will mean it'll be broken down by the time the fertilizer already in the soil is exhausted.

    If you have a dormant season where you are (does it get cold enough there to shut the roses down in winter?), you'll want the fertilizer to be basically used up in time for the roses to go to sleep, so don't add anything that will be active later than a month or two before your first frost. If roses in your area keep growing most of the year, you may be able to disregard that (I'm in NJ, so someone from further south would be better answering that).

    :-)

    ~Christopher

  • Chaoticdreams
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks Christopher, that was very helpful!

    According to the University of Florida, we're supposed to fertilize quite often here because we have such a long growing season for roses, 9 months they say. I think that applies more to South Florida than here in North as we do tend to see temps in the 30's occasionally from Nov. to Feb. (Yeah, I know that's not really cold LOL) Right now, it's really hot and dry and I'm having to water an awful lot until the rainy afternoon shower season picks up. I'm hoping that's soon with the start of hurricane season tomorrow. Naturally, since this year I have a garden to lose, we'll get one of course. That's just my luck.

    I'll use the Rose Tone for now and save the expensive fish stuff for my veggies. They seem to really like it.

    Thank you all for your input and patience. This site has been very helpful for my new obsession.

  • Tuggy3
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks Christopher. That's good info. I'll hope for the best and not pot up with that stuff again. There are better potting mix options available here so I'll do it differently in the future.

  • AquaEyes 7a NJ
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Florida soil is very sandy, so recommendations for frequent fertilizing are intended to compensate for much of it leaching away quickly. Potted plants will also leach nutrients when excess water carries them out of the pots through the drainage holes, but only to the extent that they are watered to that point. If you water slowly and stop just as the first drips come out of the bottom, you won't be leaching much. Then again, when it rains...yeah, that's why I like using the organic granular -- I don't think it leaches as much because it doesn't dissolve in water as easily as Miracle-Gro or fish/seaweed emulsion.

    If you want to mix your own soil for potting up bands, I've been happy with what I've been using, which has been modified a few times to what I like right now. This year, I used equal parts (by volume) of peat moss, Bovung composted steer manure plus humus, and shredded wood mulch (which ever was cheaper...this time, it was hardwood mulch). I mixed them in a wheelbarrow, measured simply by counting the number of buckets of each.

    I lined the inside bottoms of 1- or 2-gallon nursery pots (depending on the size of the band at arrival -- big vigorous ones went into 2-gallon, smaller into 1-gallon) with a sheet of newspaper for each to hold in the soil but still allow water to drain. I measured out 1/2 cup of Jobe's Organic Knock Out fertilizer for the 1-gallons, and 1-cup for the two gallons, and sprinkled it in layers as I filled the pot with soil mix.

    I then soaked them with fish/seaweed emulsion diluted to half the recommended rate, and set them out to start growing. It wasn't fast-paced work by any means, but I haven't done anything to them since, except a little growth-guiding and disbudding. Where I am, I haven't needed to water them yet again (we've been getting heavy rain about every week since I potted them up), but when the time comes, it'll be just plain water. I'm not fertilizing them anymore this year unless one of them starts growing chlorotic leaves, and then it'll be just another dash of half-strength fish/seaweed emulsion.

    It's been working with my 80 or so bands thus far, with just four "possible casualties":

    1) I think I snapped something when I tried carefully pulling apart what I thought was two pieces of 'Indigo' so that the stems wouldn't be all squished together, and this rose then started losing leaves and dying back a bit...but I still have hope in its three remaining green leafless canes.

    2) 'Crimson Glory' was denuded by a squirrel, but has growth buds swelling all over what's left of its small cane. Why that rose (one of the smallest bands) got munched and all the others remain untouched is beyond me.

    3) and 4) Over the winter, my 'Belle Story' and 'Mme Isaac Pereire' (2 of the 6 from last year that slept out on my porch unprotected) must have gotten frost damage, and I had to cut them back to the soil line in their pots. I'm crossing my fingers on them, but at the same time, I have so many others to plant in the garden that I'm not terribly concerned about there being "holes" because of these -- though I will be replacing 'Indigo' and 'Mme Isaac Pereire' if they bite the dust.

    All the others are putting on a lot of growth since arriving beginning in mid April and continuing through last week.

    :-)

    ~Christopher

    This post was edited by AquaEyes on Sat, Jun 1, 13 at 1:52

  • buford
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have some roses permanently in pots, I originally had the Miracle Gro potting soil in there (these weren't bands) but since then I've used alfalfa, compost and composted manure in there. They are all set to be root pruned and repotted this fall, so I'll probably just stick with the organic stuff.

    For bands, I would follow Christopher's advice. I did have bands that I repotted in 1 gal pots get too wet when we had a very wet winter and I did lose a few of them, so do watch how much water they get.

  • Tuggy3
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks Cas for the great "loaded" question. Now we're all loaded up with good info. Thanks to the other posters for expanding on Christopher's advice. I'll soon be ready to pot up my bands to the next size so this is timely info.

  • diane_nj 6b/7a
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have used MiracleGro Moisture Control Potting Mix in pots with bands. No damage that I can tell, but I usually water the heck out of my potted plants, though not enough to keep them more than moist, which washes out most of the fertilizer. I don't fertilize bands until after the first bloom, sometimes not at all the first year, your mileage may vary.

  • michaelg
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Fertilizer doesn't hurt young plants unless it is too much fertilizer. The hazard with pre-fertilized potting mix is from doubling up--either people add other fertilizer too soon, or the root ball was already laced with fertilizer by the producer, or both.

    I agree with other posters that the 'Tones are excellent and so is Miracle Gro. Just don't double up within the labeled time period.

  • Chaoticdreams
    Original Author
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Glad my question helped some other people out too! Thanks. :) This has been a very informative site and very helpful for a newbie like me.

    I hope I don't start bugging people with questions! I've been reading back posts too to keep them down some LOL. And it's good to know that becoming obsessed with roses isn't a new thing :) My husband won't have to cart me away to the mental ward.

    Cas

  • jim1961 / Central Pennsylvania / Zone 6
    10 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I grew a couple roses for 1 season in miracle gro moisture control potting mix and they grew quite well.
    This year the same potting mix is 2-3 years old and I'm
    growing tomato plants in the pots... I sprinked some Dr Earth (Life all purpose) granular fertilizer in the pots and there growing really good...(Tomato plants)
    The Tones are much easier to find local though so that's probably what I'll get when this runs out.....