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Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

Posted by hollie_z9 z9Santa Cruz CA (My Page) on
Sat, Jun 29, 13 at 3:25

I live right on the beach in Santa Cruz, CA south of San Francisco, where it is moist, cool and often foggy...but not always.

I can only fit one climber in the sun for a pillar and have narrowed down the color to these three roses: Royal Sunset, Polka or Westerland.

It's hard to tell from the photos which of these is brighter orange than the others and if the blooms are any good in the vase.

I'd like a bloom machine if possible, constantly in bloom. And it will be a pillar style in a house corner. I don't think our sunshine will fade the flowers much, roses here tend to "pink out" if anything.

Looking for disease resistance and fewer nasty thorns would be nice. There will be some salt spray onto this bush.

If any of you have seen or own these roses and can compare, I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

ANY salt spray ON the bush will eventually kill it. Roses are NOT salt resistant. It will eventually desiccate the plant and it will fail. The brighter orange of the three is Westerland. Royal Sunset has the lightest prickles of the three, but it by no means "low prickle". Polka is a monster, quickly building into a huge plant. Westerland should have the best disease resistance of the three in general. It is the shortest growing of the three, also. Kim


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

Rugosas are known as beach roses around New England.

Climbing rugosas are rare, but a search finds Conrad F Meyer and Mme Georges Bruant, which are both listed for a height of six feet--they will get taller in warmer climates when properly tied to a pillar.


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

There are roses around my neighbors house that have adapted to this beach weather. Some old hybid teas and Double Delight of all things. I have an old red rose on the north side of the house that does well with terrible neglect and a Cecile Brunner on the East. So roses can grow here. But I suppose they have to be tough.

Thanks Kim for the colors of these and I didn't know Polka was a monster.

If I lose a rose bush to salt spray, I'll just plant something else. I have to do this all the time.

Hollie


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

Royal Sunset is one of my favorite roses, but its colors are not the same as in pics in strong sunlight. It's mainly a very golden, pale orange in the sun, fading to gold-yellow (here in NC, of course). It actually takes a LOT of shade and looks prettiest with some shade, imho. There is much less yellow in some shade and the blooms open more slowly, showing the best colors.

For me, it's a slow but steady grower too. It'll get there, but it takes time. The blooms come fast and the fragrance is wonderful! I love him. But he takes patience to get tall/full enough, I think. There are no vigor problems as far as being wimpy or anything; he's sturdy... just slow.


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

Tough and they require the hard cuticle Rugosas have. I worked at the beach here for six and a half years. I encountered MANY who had actual salt spray and demanded roses. Rugosa won't grow well here. It's too hot, too high sun intensity and the season is much too long. VERY few plants resisted the salt spray for any length of time. Roses were seldom among them. Surprisingly, what did resist a tremendous amount of salt spray was bougainvillea. As long as the main trunks and plant crown were sheltered by enough of the house and only the upper portions of the plant received the salt attack, they hung on for incredibly long times. Good luck! I hope it works for you. Kim


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

Thanks Meredith, I think with the cooler temps here it's kind of like shade all the time (except this week in the heatwave it's supposed to get 92 and clear). So Royal Sunset would be more orange than yellow in shade? I like the idea of more orange as long as it's not too bright a hue. I think Polka is maybe too muted but really don't know from the photos. And as I said, roses tend to turn pink in this weather.

roseseek where are you located in so. cali? I read on a forum that someone from Long Beach and close to the ocean grew Polka with no problems.

There are tons of bouganvillas around here but this space isn't wide enough for it and I'm doing a "cottage garden" style so bouganvilla doesn't quite fit in.

I'm in Sunset zone 17, we do get good growing weather here (except for that salt spray for me). It is sunnier here with less fog than San Francisco or Carmel. A lot of the big growers are located nearby...San Marcos, a big Begonia grower and others.

I also have microclimates on my property so what works well in one area doesn't in others just a few feet away. It's trial and error. But I see roses, HTs, growing in an area by the beach that has got to be the toughest weather here...lots of wind, salt spray and sand spray. So I thought roses are tougher than I thought.

Besides this pillar rose in the sun in a corner, I'm looking for a rose that takes shade to cover my neighbor's north wall of their house. That area is really in shade or indirect sun. I've seen a rose growing around here that is bigger flowered but similar to Sally Holmes and looks a touch pinker, if anyone knows what that could be. it would not get as much salt spray.


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

Yep, for me I don't get any pink at all on RS unless it's quite cool, and the hotter and sunnier the more yellow it is.

This is about what mines like. Shade and not higher than 95 degrees or so, like this: http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.148799

and with more sun and heat, like this:
http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.41254
that also fades fast to more and more gold-yellow as it ages, like in the same day.


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

I'm stunned Royal Sunset doesn't have more pink even in cooler weather. It looks more like buff and not really orange and pink.

Thanks for the pics, I need to reevaluate this.


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

Make sure to check out more pics than the ones I pointed out. Those are just like what I see here. There are some pics of Royal Sunset that have a lot more pink than I ever see, and they may be much more like your region.

Hopefully other folks who grow her can chime in as to how her color does where they are :)

Mine actually get pretty darned yellow compared to most of the HMF pics once it gets hot and very sunny. I do think that's important to note, but I don't know whether yours would act the same.

Mine acts very differently according to how much shade there is, so that's what I use the most in my yard. I have two of her in different sunlight conditions, and I like one way better than the other ;)

It's tough with orange tones, I think. I bought some gorgeous apricot colored minis this spring that are simply yellow-gold ALL the rest of the time! They are getting moved.


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

Server error duplicate post. Sorry!

This post was edited by meredith_e on Sun, Jun 30, 13 at 14:46


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

I grow both Polka and Royal Sunset on the SoCal coast, deep in the land of near constant fog. For your corner, however, I would recommend a different rose than any of the three you mentioned. Same color, better rose would be Lady of Shallot, an Austin. Gets very big, like a climber, and seems to be a tough old gal of a rose, even though of fairly recent introduction. Nothing much bothers her and she just goes galoomphing along, blooming all the time. For me, Polka and Royal Sunset are mostly spring bloomers with fairly limited repeat. I did grow Westerland once, but he died of natural causes and I never was inspired to replace him. Lady of Shallot doesn't stop blooming, and if something happened to her, I'd be over to the store to pick up another toot sweet.

And another thing -- don't believe that 43" height thingee in HMF. In California, the plant is easily over 8 feet high by 6 feet wide. About the same size full grown as Polka.

Here is a link that might be useful: HMF link to Lady of Shallot


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

That's interesting, Kathy. In the Santa Clarita Valley heat (104 now per Wunderground, with a projection of 109) Polka tries to maintain about 15' X 10', but my clippers are too sharp for it. Royal Sunset was half that size. It died several years ago from something resembling Fireblight. It was replaced with Social Climber which has been excellent. Both Polka and Royal Sunset flowered repeatedly there. Kim


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

Kathy, thanks for the info on all the roses I mentioned plus that gorgeous photo of Lady of Shallot.

It's so nice to talk to someone who also deals with fog. During this hot spell it hasn't been foggy here though and temps got into the 90s.

Roseseek, I used to live with weather like yours, hot in the summer and flowers fading, I'm only now trying to figure out the best roses for this climate. At first I thought I couldn't grow roses here until I started noticing them all around me growing like mad. Finding an old Double Delight doing well right at the beach cliff with little care, I thought differently.

I would love to have Lady of Shallot but the corner I need to plant calls for a narrow and at least 8 foot tall bush. I had a few Austins at my last home and they are so wide but not that tall. Is it possible to train these to be a pillar that tall? Love the idea of them constantly in bloom and am surprised such high petal count roses could bloom that much.

I'm starting to think I should start looking at other colors and types of roses. I wonder how a Clair Matin would do as a pillar?

Thanks guys,

Hollie


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

Most any rose trained as a narrow "pillar," i.e. straight up, would bloom only at the top. To get a real pilar of roses effect, you would have to take something with VERY flexible canes such that the canes could be trained horizontally, i.e., wrapping in concentric circles on the way up. Very, very, few roses would work for that situation.

Sounds like a situation for some other type of plant. Maybe a vine trained on an obelisk.


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

This plant is tender for us here with freezing weather in the winter, but it grows and blooms like mad out in the blistering hot sun of Texas - it is the hot pink mandavilla [Alice du Pont is a large form - there are other smaller flowered forms - I just bought a large flowered red one]. The hotter it is, the better this plant likes it and literally just blooms its head off. Dont know about salt spray.....but they are easy to find in Texas and should be in your area too. You can train them any way you want - up or sideways. No thorns either and I havent found any diseases or insects that bother it. I have several planted and love them.


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

Really! I've never tried to train a climbing rose for a narrow space..pillar.... before. So only the top roses bloom on most roses? This is so sad because I have a real "cottage style" garden. Even Sally Holmes would do this?

The photos of mandevilla Alice du Pont are beautiful. I wonder if it would look too tropical....At least it seems to have flowers covering the bush.

Oh, man, now I have to forget roses and plant something else. Such a bummer.

Hollie


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

Hollie, are you actually getting any salt spray? I only know a few sections of Santa Cruz and can't really think of any that are likely to get direct spray. A lot of fog and salty drizzle yes. I would take a walk on the bluffs above the wharf/boardwalk and see how roses do on those old homes. I went to school down the road a ways, it was a bluff top school with little between homes and the ocean I seem to remember a lot of roses in peoples yards and in front of our dorms.


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

I'm on the point just east of the marina and lighthouse and I do get salt spray. I have grasses, salvia, agapanthas, anenomes, hydrangea macrophylla, and lawn in this front yard that gets most of the spray. They do fine.

I trial and errored to find a hedge that would grow in this location and ended up planting hebe since I can take ocean conditions and the brunt of the wind. This corner is a bit more sheltered than the hedge. I did have a butterfly bush growing in the subject corner that got real tall and bloomed well, but the leaves got really ratty from wind and because that is the nature of butterfly bushes.

Not all of my property gets the salt spray, I have a patio area that doesn't and the back area doesn't get so much. And even in the front yard with the spray, there are areas that don't get as much. I just planted a Sally Holmes there to see if she can take it, but it's too early to tell.

Driving by other houses' plantings can be deceiving due to these microclimates. Just a few doors down from me, anything will grow. On the west side where I think you are speaking about, almost nothing grows close to the beach in that windswept area, my area is not as bad.

Where I am in Santa Cruz plants generally grow like mad. My Cecile Brunner in the back yard is going great (back yard gets a little less salt spray and wind), my Dahlias are huge and already blooming big time. My soil is good.

But I will need a tall narrow, 4' wide max. bush in the front yard corner. Shall I give up on roses there, because they won't be able to form a pillar covered in bloom?

Hollie


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

This is the corner where I wanted a pillar, see red arrows. It gets 6-8 hours afternoon sun (or fog) in summer

Hollie


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

This is how close it is to the beach.


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

You don't want a climber there, Hollie. A taller, fuller bush should do it. I know it's ubiquitous and might not be suitable, but something like a bush Queen Elizabeth should do just fine there. She'll get tall enough and have enough canes to provide flowers at varying heights. A healthy, floriferous, large flowered type (even a plain old, white Iceberg or an unmolested bush Cecile Brunner) should do the trick. Kim


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

Roseseek, I looked up Queen Elizabeth and it is a beautiful bush. More than one person said it gets 11' tall! I can imagine how wide she would get if that tall. Were you thinking to keep cutting her back to fit in that space, or do you have one that doesn't get so wide.

On the photo, behind the right chair is a pink hydrangea bush that will take up eventually some of the grey wall space. That's why I wanted something to go narrowly up the corner between the two windows, or at least as tall as the windows.

Queen Elizabeth is gorgeous but I'm afraid of her width.

Holly


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

Holly

I live down the coast now in Santa Barbara, our Queen Elizabeth (a not very happy one) is about 4' tall and 2' wide max


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

Kippy, what a difference in size...is it in shade or something?


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

It is in the mid day to afternoon sun, gets a bit of a break from the picket fence. It was a body bag rose from Costco, so probably not the best stock to start with. It gets well watered, lots of horse manure.....Just is not the QE that most think of.


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

This is a body bag Queen Elizabeth (NOT a climber) which receives mid day to late afternoon direct, southern sun. It gets HOT there and the soil is terrible. It holds very little moisture and has gotten watered about once a week during the thirty-five plus years it's grown there. It has been attacked by gophers, rabbits, had the soil regularly loosened by moles and keeps pushing up and out no matter what. The tops reach the second story window each time I hack it back. It doesn't get dead headed and never sprayed nor fed, yet it continues doing its thing. It would probably flower more if I ever dead headed it and perhaps fed it. I allow it to help shade the window above it to reduce the reflected light off the window which fries the plants where the leucophyllum I've shown in another thread is planted.

I don't think you would have quite the monster this is due to your reduced sun and heat, but with any quality of plant, you should have a full corner. Another possibility would be to plant a standard with a shorter bush in front of it. I know I sound like a broken record with Iceberg suggestions, but if pink isn't objectionable, perhaps Brilliant Pink Iceberg as a standard with a white version in front of it? They grow and flower everywhere and are perfect landscape plants. I'd think they should fill that corner easily and there aren't any other roses which would flower as constantly and continually. Kim


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

A standard is a great idea! Since I didn't want wide width at the bottom.

There are iceberg roses growing all over my neighborhood, they do well here. Now to just find one on a standard might be hard in July.

I've thought that standards are too formal for my cottage garden, but in this case it seems like the right plant for the right space.

If I got a 36" standard, it would take the plant under those windows, or maybe a 24" standard would be OK too.

Great idea roseseek! I'd go plant shopping today if it wasn't almost the 4th.

Hollie


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

You're welcome Hollie. As I said, it is probably a "cop out answer", but the style of the house and space seem a perfect foil for the rose. It's always "on" and suits the more casual "beach life style". If you have a Ralph's market nearby, check them for the standards. I've been in several the past few days in several local cities and all have had standard Icebergs out front for sale. You should probably also be able to find them at any Home Depot, Lowe's or even Osh about this time of year. I think it should look great, particularly under planted with something suitable, perhaps Lavender or some other airy, wispy type to set off the gray of the house. Easy, but suitable, I think. Happy Fourth! Kim


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

I don't think it's a cop out answer.

Thanks for the tips on where to find these in July.

I've already got some low growing yellow daylilies with a dwarf hydrangea paniculata below the standard, but I don't know if that hydrangea will make it. Paniculata has a tough time in the salt.

Thanks Kim!


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

You're welcome, Hollie. I'm glad the idea appealed to you. A 36" standard would probably be more in scale with the house, but it will infringe into the window area and view. The shorter standard, if permitted to get as large as it can, would work and perhaps not be quite as much of an impediment to the view, and MAY work scale wise. White may be a bit bland, but it will definitely work, particularly with other colorful plantings around it. Brilliant Pink Iceberg may be more appealing because of more color, but it isn't as vigorous as white. Where it's really warm, it can get large, but the higher the heat, the lower the attractive quotient due to bleaching. Burgundy Iceberg is truly best in cooler climates. Inland heat gives it the old Huey/stale liver tones which result in a dead spot in the landscape. It just doesn't reflect enough light to pop.

Whatever you choose, I would plant it as far out from that corner as you can to allow as good air flow and heat mitigation as possible. If you get clear, hot periods at all, your chances of burn from reflected heat off the glass and spider mites will be greater. Better air flow should help alleviate any mildew or botrytis issues you may encounter from it being too drippy wet. It should also give you more view from the inside of decent leaves and flowers instead of the dead/fried/rotted growth from being too close to the house. Kim


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

All good ideas Kim. I saw a burgundy and pink mix standard on google, very nice.

I was wondering how much higher than the standard these grow. We definitely don't want to impede the view so I would think a 24" standard would be best. But I'll see what I can find.

The hot periods here are in the high 80s, maybe 92 max. and last about 3 days before the fog comes in. So I'm not worried about bleaching the color.

Thanks again
Hollie

Holly


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

Kim has a great idea on the standard iceberg (pink or other color) Thankfully, Iceberg is everywhere so you might be able to find one. My standards stay fairly compact because I do not want them to get too top heavy. I have a bunch of the 36" ones, the happiest seem to be the Icebergs, they all peak over the picket fence, so maybe a tad over 48" to the tips?

I picked up a 3 Iceberg mix from Lowes last year, supposed to be white-brilliant pink-burgundy, I really love them-but I have yet to notice the burgundy. I have to get in the bed and hunt down the canes and see it they labeled it wrong. But the pinks are wonderful, they almost look like each bloom was hand painted with a wide pink brush (lots of white showing) On the other hand, my front yard nursery bareroot burgundy Iceberg is just that, burgundy with a whiter reverse. The first flush on that bush had 100's of blooms, 2nd year in the ground. It is probably a 3 foot ball. All have nice green leaves right now, mine mildew a bit, but keep on going so I don't worry about it too much. I have to say I like the pop of the pink much better than the burgundy

Hope that helps!


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

Kippy, do you mean you keep them compact by pruning so they don't get too tall? And do you mean 48" long draping down from the crown? Do they like to grow upward from the standard or weep downward? I'm trying to estimate the height of a 3' standard with the roses growing on it.

I'm lucky you have these and can tell me about them.

Sounds like you like the pink best and I didn't know there was so much white on the pink blooms. I'm glad there is white because I'd hate to have neon pink blooms.

Thanks Kippy,

Holly


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

Holly,

I will take some pictures tomorrow, but standards usually look like a lolly-pop. A ball on a stick.


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

Holly, Your place is sooooo lovely :) Oh, I wanna go to the beach!


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

Thanks Meredith, I do love it here especially when it is so hot in the California valleys. Pretty crowded with tourists this time of year, especially yesterday for Fourth of July.

It has been fun doing the landscaping. Everything has to be in gopher cages though and my lawn has chicken wire under it to prevent gopher damage.

Holly


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

Holly

This is the lighter of the pinks on my 3 colors of iceberg roses that I got from Lowes last season


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset.

This is the darker pink.

This cane is tagged "Burgundy Iceberg" but they are slip on tags not nursery. I think I have Iceberg, Pink Iceberg and Brilliant Pink Iceberg.

My Burgundy Iceberg is really more of a burgundy color


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

Kippy, I understand Iceberg comes in 4 colors now, white, burgundy, brilliant pink and blushing pink. The first photo looks like blushing pink and second one looks like brilliant pink.

I can't believe you got a 3 color iceberg rose at lowes. I didn't thought they only came in 2 colors at a time.

I went to the nursery yesterday and they had 36" standards with burgundy and white, but no pink. I will go to Home Depot (no Lowes here) and see if they have a pink.

I'm liking the lighter pink, do you think the brilliant pink looks rather neon-ish?

Thanks for these shots,
Holly


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

Holly

I think I got lucky with the 3 icebergs. I had driven down to the large rose supplier to pick up the main roses for my new bed (5 of them) and since I had to use the freeway interchange right by Lowe's, I decided to stop for a pair of Russian Sages since I could not find them locally and they were listed in their ad. There sitting with the roses were a few 1g pots with 3 small icebergs started in them. All were listed as Iceberg-Brilliant Pink-Burgundy. I left the elastic tags on the plants just so I could figure them out later.

I think the darkest is a bit close to hot pink, but with so much white they really are Brilliant Pink. I prefer the paler pink but if you are doing a bright colored bed, I think either would be fine.

Like many, I have a love hate relationship with Icebergs. I hate that they do so well and are so common-loving the unusual and uncommon. But I LOVE that they do so well, bloom so well, grow so fast, seem to not care where they are planted. The two 1g's I bought last season are just as happy as the rest of the bed, even though they started smaller and do not get the care that the rest of the bed gets (less water-more heat)


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RE: Climbing roses Westerland or Polka or Royal Sunset

Thanks Kippy, hope I get lucky like you did. I am going to try to find Blush pink, thanks to your photos and description.

So glad to hear Icebergs can take so much abuse and still do well.

Holly


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