Zaphod -- Don't collect BECAUSE they are rare.

Collect what does well where you garden.

Here, where Teas, Chinas, and Noisettes are the best choices for my conditions, I tend to stick to those rose families. Within them, I opt first for Found Roses, simply because I want roses with the potential to survive tough times and a scarcity of water.

A very few roses remain here even though "HERE" is not their best location, simply for purposes of propagating them and passing them forward.

But I'm not enough of a masochist to grow roses BECAUSE they are rare.

Jeri

I'm not looking to buy things simply because they are rare, but if I like them and they happen to be uncommon, I might want to consider purchasing sooner, rather than later and find myself empty-handed. It seems others on the forum are advocating this as well. I also tend to buy for my zone (though I've a couple I'm eye-balling for containers). That is one reason I was thinking lists for different zones would be helpful as I would never buy Teas, Chinas, and Noisettes, but someone else might be interested in that list. They got a couple going as they related to Vintage closing stock and I thought it would be good to broaden and expand that discussion. I think that knowing what we should look for might help the decision making process for the immediate future as opposed to the continued purchasing of roses that will remain easily accessible for years to come.

On your list, I've only seen Radiance, Cl offered by Vintage. Many years Vintage didn't even offer her.

I have her coming in June :) I was waiting forever to see if a closer vendor would offer her because Vintage shipping+inspection certificate is so steep to my ZIP code.

I'm thrilled Vintage offers her, though. Something about the idea of a climbing Radiance makes me wonder why everyone warm enough doesn't want her ;) I don't know how she does, but we'll see!

I've never heard of anyone even growing her. Your zone might not cooperate with her, though, if I'm not mistaken. You'd better ask about Radiance in your zone to be sure.

Hmmm...That's strange. Radiance isn't on my list. Maybe my link doesn't work correctly. Pretty rose though. You'll have to post pictures and details once she gets going.

Zaphod, when I click on your link, I get MY wishlist (which is empty because I keep mine in my head!). So, maybe copy and paste your list so we can see what's there?

Ha, zaphod! I thought you just had really good taste ;)

Here's the list. I tend to throw things on here that catch my fancy so they're a hodge-podge of ideas.

Angèle Pernet (hybrid tea, Pernet-Ducher, 1924)
Basye's Purple Rose
Belle ÃÂpoque (hybrid tea, Fryer, 1994)
Chic (floribunda, Boerner 1953)
Désirée Parmentier
Duquesa de Peñaranda
"Elegant Gallica"
Le Grande Capitain
Morning Has Broken
Nigel Hawthorne
Omar Khayyám
Out of Rosenheim î
Roberto Capucci î
Scarlet Velvet â¢
Wretham Rose
Aloha (hybrid tea, Boerner 1949)
Black Lady î
Curly Pink
Geranium Red
Jocelyn
Paloma Blanca
Polarstern î
Savoy Hotel (Hybrid Tea, Harkness, 1987)
Summer Wine (climber, Kordes 1985)
Peggy Rockefeller â¢
Discovery (shrub, Clement, 2004)

I do acquire roses simply because they are rare, and give them every opportunity to produce. I still am not exactly sure how I became so enamored with rarer roses, but Jeri Jennings is partly to blame for sending me unrooted cuttings of Gardens of the World some years ago.

Looking at your list, Belle Epoque has always done well for me, and I probably have a rooted cutting in my posession if you would like to try it.

Just thought I'd respond to your wish list from another zone 5 roseaholic. I doubt that Duquesa de Peñaranda or Angèle Pernet would survive well in your yard, as I've had bad hardiness from the Pernetianas and Dot roses in my zone. I also have had Belle Epoque die on me, but only once so far (which means it has two more tries) and since Mike grows it in his Michigan yard it should be fine. Jocelyn's another notorious wimp that isn't likely to get another chance with me.

Among the other ones, Black Lady is a sturdy rose that mostly laughs at winter - the blooms are small but that elusive dark red I seek out. Peggy Rockefeller doesn't bloom as often but her blooms are delicious dark red and larger, and she survives in my zone 4 pocket. Aloha is tall and narrow and just in its fourth year growing beyond the 6' pillar it has been - reliably hardy, healthy and well formed blooms. I have both Polarstern and Paloma Blanca in the same bed, and Polarstern is definitely hardier and taller. I'll have to try Paloma Blanca on a warmer side of the house.

Savoy Hotel has been a reliable tall bloomer, very healthy, though not as much rebloom as I'd like. Scarlet Velvet blooms off and on in my HT back bed and isn't particularly memorable for me, but that also means it's trouble free. Chic is a nice blend of colors and relatively modest grower so far in its 3rd year. Roberto Capucci is just in his second year, but a friend in my zone swears by him for regular fragrant double blooms.

I'll bet no one in your neighborhood but the rest of the rose fanatics has heard of any of these roses, so in that sense they all are "rare" roses, and worth bringing to broader circulation. The more we grow these roses, the more excitement we hope to build in your average gardener to try them for themselves.

Cynthia

Basically, something would be considered "rare" if there are few to no nurseries offering it. Take a look at the 'Buy From' tab on HMF. if there are only one or two nurseries in the US offering it, and you think it interesting and potentially successful in your garden (or worth fussing over) consider it as a possibility. But, I agree. I've collected things simply because they were rare and in MANY cases, they are rare for very good reasons. Some simply didn't receive the hype they needed to enjoy a wide distribution. MANY more are rare because they aren't good garden plants. They lack vigor or they are very susceptible to diseases or they just don't flower. My collecting days occurred in a place which was generally quite good for most more modern roses and any type of China, Tea, Noisette and their like. It was not good for cold hardy, European, once flowering OGRs as there was too much summer heat with too little winter chill. The season was too long with insufficient winter to trigger the plants to shed their leaves. So, "rare" doesn't always mean suitable, or even "good". Kim