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Kordes roses verdict: excellent

Posted by sc_gardener zone 5 (My Page) on
Sat, Jun 11, 11 at 11:05

Well last spring I planted some Kordes roses upon recommendations on this website. They bloomed well and were relatively disease free all last summer. This winter, we had a bad one with a neg. 14 below F They all survived. Minimal if any cane damage.

Especially the grandiflora Eliza, last year this roses had almost NO disease on the leaves. And after the winter is now about 5 feet all. I would recommend this to anyone! It is a very upright habit as compared to the other kordes I bought.

The Kordes I tried:
pomponella
elegant fairy tale
Carmel antike
Eliza
Marie Luise Marjan

I am going to have to try more this next year, I did not purchase any thing spring because I wanted to see what a zone 5 winter did to them with no special winter prep like mulch and they all passed.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

I'm really impressed by the vigor of my Kordes roses. Champs include Caramel Antike, Kosmos, Sister's Fairy Tale, Escimo and Orange Flower Circus. I don't know why in th world I ordered the Orange Flower Circus--I'm not a big fan of the Salmon-Orange color range and it clashes with everything around it. But it is soooo healthy and blooms so bountifully---big sumptuous flowers that don't ball even in damp Bay Area weather--that I would never get rid of it.

Colleen


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

I've also been impressed with the newer Kordes roses, which I purchased from Palatine Roses as bareroots. I have Summer Memories, Aloha Hawaii, Red Riding Hood, Cinderella Fairy Tale. I also had Apricot Vigorossa before the voles ate it. All of these roses have been disease resistant and very hardy for me. The Kordes family has made a huge effort in recent decades to breed for disease resistance and it really shows!


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

Are any of these Kordes roses fragrant? If so count me in.


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

Eliza has a light scent, marie luise marjan a light scent as well.


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

Kordes has a very vigorous testing program for new rose introductions that lasts years. Fragrance is one of the traits evaluated but it is only one of many as they put a lot of emphasis on such things as vigor, toughness, hardiness and disease resistance. Even such seemingly trivial things as do the flowers drop there petals cleanly when finished. In my experience they are the best and many of the great ones are unknown on these shores!


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

My 1st year Laguna rose has this old rose scent...a damask scent perhaps? The blooms smelled really nice when I cut them for indoors.

Cinderella Fairy tale has this mild apple scent. I don't really like roses with an apple scent.

Kordes roses are healthy, but I don't like the thick glossy leaves on some of them.


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

I'm assuming you have Kordes's 2004 'Eliza'. After checking the parentage of that rose, I'm not surprised that it's a good performer for you. The seed parent is 'Acapella', and the pollen parent has been identified as being a seedling of 'Caramba'.

'Acapella' is the healthiest and most prolific HT in my garden (probably the healthiest HT I've EVER grown). Both 'Acapella' and 'Caramba' were hybridized by Tantau, the other great German rose house.


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

I got into roses in a big way a couple of years ago and after buying some that looked good on the tag and ending up being disappointed with how they turned out, I started going to rose gardens, etc, to see lots of different varieties of roses growing, to see which ones I liked the most. I also started doing research and reading reviews like on forums like these and looking at photo's on the net and what I eventually found was that a lot of the roses that I ended up liking the most were bred by Kordes.
I especially like high-centred, beautifully formed roses that you could see in rose shows, especially if they're slow to open and that's pretty much what I've learned Kordes specialize in. They apparently dominate the cut-flower industry in Europe and it's easy to see why, having seen so many of their varieties now.
Being so heavily into the cut flower industry also ensures that most of their varieties have a very high production, which is an added bonus. Some of them can apparently churn out up to 300 flowers per year!
I'm not sure how easily it is to get Kordes roses over there in the US, but over here in Australia we're lucky that our leading bare-root rose source is also the agent here for Kordes and have apparently introduced over 140 Kordes varieties here in the past 20 years.
My favourite is Osiria, which blew me away when I saw one in person for the first time (it's worth Googling "Osiria rose photo", to have a look at them, they're incredible) with other fantastic, beautifully formed and reasonably well known ones including: Abracadabra, Folklore, Kardinal, Peter Frankenfeld, Shocking Blue, Memoire, Ekstase and Helmut Schmidt.
If you like high-centred, well formed, slow to open, high production roses, I recommend you look into Kordes for sure.


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

I agree. The Kordes roses are marvellous..... my favourite is Westerland, of which I have had several over the years. Truly beautiful!


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

Does anyone know if Buxom Beauty is hardy in zone 5?


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

I forgot about Buxom Beauty (known here as Parole)! I bought one of those a few months ago and absolutely love it. Huge, nicely formed blooms, in one of my favourite colours (hot rich pink) and an incredible, rich fragrance (similar to Stephen's Big Purple).
Not sure about whether it's suitable for your zone, but if it is it's fantastic.


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

I forgot about Buxom Beauty (known here as Parole)! I bought one of those a few months ago and absolutely love it. Huge, nicely formed blooms, in one of my favourite colours (hot rich pink) and an incredible, rich fragrance (similar to Stephen's Big Purple).
Not sure about whether it's suitable for your zone, but if it is it's fantastic.


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

How well do these take the heat? We are two hours north of Sacramento and don't have cold winters. I'm thinking about Red Riding Hood. We have hot morning sun, afternoon dappled shade, and a long growing season. Looks like I would have to order this one on multiflora since it's from Palatine.


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

I have Rosarium Uetersen and Karlsruhe. Both are excellent for me.


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

Nastarana,

Can I ask you where you purchased, Karlsruhe? It's such a pretty rose, but difficult to find.

Thanks.

Bellarosa


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

  • Posted by maryl Z7 Okla. (My Page) on
    Thu, Feb 23, 12 at 15:37

As for heat tolerance, notice the zones that are posting glowing reports on his roses. I've had a few Kordes roses over the years, certainly not enough to make a hard and fast judgement about, but for me they weren't any better or worse then any other rose. Each should be judged on it's own merit. Also the main source for Kordes roses (Canada) all grow their roses on multiflora rootstock. That's a no go in areas (like mine) that have alkaline soil. Own root Kordes roses are available, but for HT's, Florabundas etc., that's a whole other subject, and again I'd base it on each individual cultivar not on the whole group of Kordes roses.....Maryl


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

  • Posted by saldut 9-10 st pete, fl (My Page) on
    Thu, Feb 23, 12 at 15:52

I notice Chamblee's roses carry Kordes.... I wonder how they do here in Central Fla.?? anyone here got them ??? I have ordered from Chamblee's often and they are very good and if these Kordes roses do well here in Fla., especially re: BS --- I'll order some... thanks, sally


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

Sally,
Chamblees was zone 8b on the old climate zone map. I made the leap that they'd be selling plants that did well in their area - and therefore probably well in my 9a. Everything I've gotten from them has and is doing well in the ground (you'll remember our previous own root discussion).
I remarked somewhere that I'd seen a Kordes plant in a garden which looked like plastic while none of the other roses looked any where near as nice - that was in my own garden and in reference to a first year (last year) own root Kordes from Chamblees. The two Kordes I have are too young for bloom reports, but their general health is impressive. Jumbojimmy remarks about the heavy glossy leaves. It really takes some getting used to the look of such healthy leaves I'll admit - especially when they really could be mistaken for plastic!
If I could confirm its HMF listed fragrance, I'd wish Chamblees had Leibezauber (Love's Magic). There are two HMF links about Leibezauber in the Mike in New Orleans post about 'Pride of England.'
And as for taking the heat, they did - they slumbered through the heat of summer just like my other roses only the Kordes were sleeping beauties.
So as to the already posted praises, I say AMEN!
Chris


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

Kordes roses are being tested in the south and are performing quite well and actually are proving to be quite tolerant of hot humid climates - at least the newer shrub roses. There are quite a few Kordes in the Earthkind trials in Texas. Chamblee's has the Kordes as own root plants and trials quite a bit for the Texas climate before offering any roses for sale. Another source for Kordes is Roses Unlimited and they also have the roses as own root plants grown in the south. These should perform well for those in warmer climates.


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

Ah, I JUST LOVE those "plastic" leaves, especially when the other leaves are turning yellow, spotted, and falling off.

I just had a beautiful arbor built for my Summer Wine rose that had blown down last autumn in a wild wind, so my focus is really on it right now. Most roses haven't even leafed out yet, but here is my wind tumbled 20' (After trimming to get the old trellis out of it) Summer Wine, with perfect green leaves and still covered in 1" orange hips that glow like Autumn apples, in FEBRUARY, 4 weeks after a harsh ice storm! I noticed last years prized South Africa looks almost as good, but without the hips. This, in a garden where I have had more Jackson and Perkins roses dwindle and die over the years and felt like I just couldn't grow nice roses. I am used to wimpy fungus spotted, wind-torn canes this time of year that are only beginning to show signs of growth in the leaf bud. Granted, it has been a mild winter except for the 9" of snow followed by an ice storm...A great winter for leaf fungus to spread! The Kordes roses show that it really is a garden , even in winter.


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

For me they have focused far too much on health though. I think they have taken all of the character out of them. They almost look like fake plants to me lol.


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

Does someone have a picture showing these "plastic" leaves? I'm curious--never have seen them. I do grow a couple older Kordes--like Valencia which has big fragrant beautiful blooms and disease-resistance, but I don't remember anything unusual about the leaves--just that it's a bit slow to repeat, but gorgeous when it does.

Kate


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

I have been happy with every rose I got from Kordes. One surprise was Flamingo, a thorny strong clear pink HT that has thick disease resistant leaves. It is not fragrant but it blooms frequently and the flowers have a wonderful form.

I love pomponella for the flower shape but it is is big bush for me. It puts out strong canes at an angle so I had to move it away from the walkway where it couldn't be a people eater.

If they came out with roses that looked and smelled like DA's roses but were disease free, they might steal all of his customers away.


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

Researching Kordes disease resistance, I learned that Kordes established the testing program about 50 years ago for the ADR award which focuses on disease resistance. See the link below for the recent ADR award winners.
I have to agree that some of the best are not currently available to us in the US moreover not available own root which is the only way I will buy. I also agree that a more recent release date is likely better. Then there's prejudice, of course. Someone posted a comment on a thread here somewhere asking the question how a certain rose wasn't just another pink rose. I must say I think that's a good question about any color rose, but especially pink ones.
On the linked site I noticed a couple of pinks that seem to be more than just another pink specifically 'Souvenir de Baden-Baden' (Kordes), and 'Schloss Ippenburg' (Meilland). 'Schloss Ippenburg' was found to be extremely black spot resistant.

Given that the AARS selection process is moving (has moved) to testing without sprays, I wouldn't be too surprised to find that European ADR winners become the progenitors of our 21st century roses. Also, I understand that the European breeding programs have long distinguished between "Florist" roses and garden roses. Hopefully that will happen here as well. And I agree with you kittymoonbeam, the hybridizers are only a few steps away from potential perfection - well I can dream of stunning healthy garden roses that win both the ADR and the Gamble awards, can't I?

The ADR winners from 2005 are listed with photos on the linked site; however, the descriptions are in German. Each year's list is available from the drop down on the left titled ADR-ROSES.
Chris

Here is a link that might be useful: ADR Awarded Roses


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

The RHS also has a category awarded to plants which have been through a rigorous tesing system. Some of the criteria includes being able to grow in a variety of situations, demonstrating above average disease resistance, performing consistently across a season and also over several seasons. Pretty much any plant which has been awarded an AGM (Award of Garden Merit) is indeed gardenworthy. It sounds somewhat similar to the Earthson category. There are over 100 roses which have been given an AGM from all classes, ranging from old ramblers such as The Garland, to modern procumbent roses such as Kent and Austins such as Abe Darby and Graham Thomas.


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

Abe darby is blackspot disaster here in central ohio. Location, location, location.


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

Campanula,

In our school system, a grade of 'C' is average and 'B' is above average. The point here is to recognize that the ADR program is striving for and appears to be achieving an 'A' for excellence in disease resistance.


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

I understand that over the next couple of years Kordes will be introducing in North America roses that are not only disease-resistant, but also have great fragrance. That sounds like a winning combination to me.


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

For those of you in northern NC and SE Virginia, we are adding a number of Kordes shrub roses to the organic rose garden at the Virginia Zoo. Among them: Caramella (Caramel Fairy Tale), Cinderella Fairy Tale, Elegant Fairy Tail, Lions Fairy Tale. The roses aren't in the ground yet! We purchased them own-root and put them in pots to be ready for spring planting.
The garden has many antiques (polyanthas, teas and Chinas, Drift series, and a lot of Buck shrubs.


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

For those who want photos of the plastic:
Once you find one that shows some foliage you can click on it to enlarge it after you copy and paste this HMF link.

http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=36429&tab=36

While doing a search inspired by barbarag's post, I ran across this article published in March 2009 (see link below).

Here is a link that might be useful: A fairy tale ending for gardeners?


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

  • Posted by seil z6b MI (My Page) on
    Mon, Feb 27, 12 at 19:24

Hey, I can live with plastic looking leaves if they don't need spraying!

Nice article, Sand, thanks!


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

Over the years while growing roses in Fl., I've grown several Kordes and Denmark roses. Some of the best roses I've grown. I'm in the process of getting several of those roses in my garden up here in N.GA. Love the foliage and blooms. The ones that are here or will find their way here are;Kordes--Veldfire (HT), Kardinal (HT),Denmark--Brinessa (HT), Lady of the Dawn (Flor). Will probably put in a few Kordes florabundas as well.


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

Bellarosa, Apologies for the delay in getting back to you.

I purchased 'Karlsruhe' from Vintage Gardens; unfortunately it is no longer on their curently available list. For me it has excellent rebloom and good color and vigorous growth, if not the best shape. I think some of Kordes' newer climbers show better shape in pictures, for example, 'Laguna' and 'Jasmina'. I value color as much or more than perfect form, so I was very happy with my 'Karlsruhe'. It also showed minimal BS in a very damp summer. VG has been hinting in recent emails that they may, just might, not have to close after all. We shall see. I might be able to take cuttings this spring, if the plant emerges from winter cover without signifant damage. Send me a PM this summer if you might want cuttings.


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

Lots of things to respond to. The newer Kordes are avaialbe and I think for those who prefer own root the specialty mail order catalogs will have these new Kordes next season. North America is almost in step with the European releases so look around they are here. As to disease resistance the serious work by Kordes on disease resistance began in 1990. Roses with truly exceptional resistance were starting to releae in the late 1990's. Each season the resistance has been improving and the new releases all have great disease resistance. For those buying Kordes roses from before that period and then not being impressed with the disease resitance I can only say try the newer Kordes roses. As to the comment about the roses losing character because of the focus on disease resistance I don't know but I think looking at this year's new N. American releases - roses like Souvenir de Baden Baden, Winter Sun and Black Forest show interesting complex and varied flowers. For fragrance look at Beverly which has won several of the European fragrance awards. Phil is right there is a new series of highly fragrant (and disease resistant) roses scheduled for release in Europe and the N. American releases shoudl be close behind. Lastly, are some of you really complaining about bright shiny dark green foliage without disease????


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

The link below connects to an article by Lynn Hunt subsequent to the Fairy Tale Ending article. In this article, she manages to get the curator of the Peggy Rockefeller Rose Garden to name 6 of the top ten best performers under "no spray" conditions as of 2010.
She promised to follow up with the top 100 list. I will provide a link to the Top 115 for 2010 in a subequent post since some folks have difficulty with 'copy and paste' addresses and since GW only allows us one link per post.

Here is a link that might be useful: Lynn Hunt's Followup to a Fairy Tale Ending


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

The New York Botanical Garden's Peggy Rockefeller Rose Garden published a graded list of the perfomance of many roses under its no spray conditions. See link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: NYBG's No Spray Top 115 Roses for 2010


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

I also found this report about one of the NYBG's Rose Garden volunteer gardeners interesting. See link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Life is Rosy: Gene Sekulow


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

I hope everyone followed the imbedded links in the 'Life is Rosy' article and didn't miss ending up or passing through the NYBG's blog post linked below.

Aside from needing a unified declaration of war on Rose Rosette Disease, the future of roses otherwise looks rosier and rosier.

Here is a link that might be useful: Great Rosarians of the World 2012


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

I have four Kordes fairy tale roses and a Sunsprite (which I think is a Kordes rose?).

Three are winners, and the other two have been duds in my garden. Cinderella fairy tale balls like there is no tomorrow when the weather is wet. Pomponella is from a Canadian nursery, and the multiflora rootstock does not adapt well to my soil. So far, I have only seen five flowers (and most buds rotted in the rain). I might SP both.

Agreed that each Kordes rose, not as a group, should be valuated on its own merit.


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

'Francis Meilland' is a 2013 ADR winner. a blush/white HT with good form, said to be very vigorous, fragrant, and BS-resistant. Just released into the US market. It will be nice if they are starting to get some fragrance into the newly disease-resistant roses.

On Olga's recommendation, I've ordered Kordes' Souv. de Baden-Baden ("Pink Enchantment" at Regan and RU).

Here is a link that might be useful: Regan F. Meilland


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

Cross connection to similar thread with other roses discussed via the link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kordes rose performance


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

LOL, Michael. It was sombody else recommendation. I am not even familiar with this rose.
Eliza is excellent here. I don't grow it myself, but my sister does and it is absolutely healthy. Will probably add it to my garden next year.
Laguna and Floral Fairy Tale are great in my garden.
Older Kordes roses like Westerlan, Sunsprite, etc are not resistant here.
Olga


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

I think we've all heard the term "global economy" for a good number of years now. It is interesting how rose names translate in the global markets (by any other name?).

'Francis Meilland' which is reportedly the ONLY rose to win the 2013 AARS Award is none other than 'Schloss Ippenburg' mentioned in my February post above.

Schloss (aka Francis) won the ADR Award in 2008. It has been garnering quite a few other awards too according to HMF - see link below.

michaelg: thanks for the Regan link for two reasons. it's the first report i've seen that Francis should be expected to fade to white and also because it is available there on its own roots.

Here is a link that might be useful: Awards for Francis (Schloss)


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Der Rosenkavalier?

Even though jaxondel reports on the roses, 'Acapella' and 'Caramba' in a June post above, last night I had a dream which requires me to mention Rosen Tantau - the oft termed other great house of German roses.

In terms of the ADR Awards, one might want to see all possibilities. Maybe someone has experience with recent Tantau roses?

Below is a link to an ARCHIVED thread on Tantau Roses.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cupshaped


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

I love the Tantau roses I've acquired so far. I have three Bernstein-Rose (the full name) bushes which are small plants whose blooms look a lot like Julia Child's. The blooms are the same size as Julia's, but the plants are way smaller. I have them located on a lower level below my two JCs to kind of echo the Julias. B-R is very healthy with dark shiny green leaves and a nice compact growth habit. It's never supposed to have much size which is what I wanted in the small spaces they grow in. I also have had two stunning Tantau Ascot grandiflora roses for a year which I have been raving about for a while. The bareroot plants took off like rockets and are always in bloom. And they are only a year old. Don't overlook Tantau. Diane


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

I found this pdf by Carol Macon, a Denver Rose Society Consulting Rosarian. It is available for download from the link below.
She wrote it in 2009. I don't think it's been available on the internet that long (might have been) - I can't believe I wouldn't have found it sooner.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kordes Roses


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

I am liking my Tantau roses better than my Kordes. Here is my latest Tantau, Augusta Luise, planted as a bare root in March, and photo taken in June. Diane


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

Here is Tantau's Ascot. Diane


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

And, finally, Tantau's Bernstein-Rose, a small floribunda. Diane


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

Well Diane, you know you sold me on Ascot! And now you've sold me on Bernstein-Rose. All of my FT Kordes are AMAZING here on multiflora.
If they were scented...I'd buy many more varieties.
Susan


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RE: Kordes roses verdict: excellent

Oh no, pressure. Were you able to find Bernstein-Rose, Susan? That's its one problem--I can't think of a US seller (or Canadian) right now. I got my three B-Rs from Hortico about six years ago. Around that time, Heirloom Roses had it, too. It remains small just like its description, which, I think is a plus. You know what you're getting for, size-wise. Good Luck! Diane


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