I can't say specifically about Firefighter, but in general, first blooms on a new plant will sometimes not be quite the "true" color. Give it a month or six weeks and let's see how it is doing by then.

Kate

Thanks Kate. I was devastated..(a little overstated) I was definitely disappointed.

andrea

Also changes in weather conditions can greatly affect bloom color. So if you brought it home from being in a nursery greenhouse atmosphere and put it outside it could have been affected by that. But it's way too soon to know how your garden climate is going to affect that very new rose. You need to give this rose some time to settle in and mature before making any judgments about it.

It did come from a very pampered existence directly to high 90s for a 4 or 5 days. We aren't usually that hot. I guess I would wilt and fade also!!!

Thanks y'all,

andrea

Of course! Plant pigments are organic pigments. They change drastically for a number of reasons, depending upon the genetics involved and the conditions they endure. "China" genes generally intensify with age, heat and strong light. Think Mutabilis, Double Delight, Joseph's Coat and the many others which 'burn' more intensely. Those from old European and other roses tend more to fade with age and stronger conditions. Reds traditionally tended to 'blue' with age. The first "non bluing red" was quite a sensation. In fact, it was reported many decades ago that the McGredy's raised a "real blue rose" out of the bluing red line which ended very blue. The patriarch thought it "an abomination" and ordered it destroyed. J.H. Nicholas suggested the one true way to create a true blue rose was to breed with all the bluing reds and select for the best color.

Metallic pigments are more permanent than organic pigments. That was a huge issue in instant photography. Polaroid's colors weren't as vibrant or "natural" as Kodak's instant pictures. Polaroid used metallic pigments. Kodak used organic pigments. Kodak's images were "prettier" but put both on a hot, sunny dash board in the sun on a hot day and the Polaroid image remained virtually unchanged. Kodak's faded dreadfully. Kim

Kim,

So what lineage is Firefighter? Is it Chinese or European?

And if you don't know, do you know how can I research this? Very interesting! (I got that from Laugh-In)

andrea

This is exactly an "if it quacks like a duck..." proposition, Andrea. If the rose intensified in color saturation with age, heat and light, I would classify it as Chinese type genes. If it fades, it's more along the traditional lines of virtually everything else. If it was tremendously colorfast, it would hold more closely to the Foetida line, or more modern Foetida line. The colors of the early Foetida crosses were so unstable, J.H. Nicholas called them "thirty minute roses" because their incredible, new colors only lasted about half an hour in the hot sun.

Fading with age, heat and light is so common in the rose genotype, we expect it. It's only when something other than the aging colors occur that it's special or unusual. Both China roses with their age intensifying trait and what has become the Foetida legacy of greater colorfast pigments are changes from the traditional "norm". Kim

I think you will be happy with Firefighter. I'm not a big fan of red roses and only grow a few, but Firefighter is a rose I wouldn't want to be without. It's my favorite of my reds (Mr. Lincoln, Love's Promise, Veteran's Honor, Rouge Royale). It will "blue" a bit as it ages, but holds its bright red color for quite a while. Attached picture is of blooms that are several days old. Mine is in full sun from sun up to sun down and edges still don't burn too badly...unlike a lot of reds. It's constantly in bloom, blooms last forever on the bush and in the vase, the fragrance is to die for and lasts until the very end.

Thanks Kim for the info. I will listen to hear if it quacks
like a duck...But if it does, my pups will bark at it.

And thank you Pat for the words of encouragement and
beautiful pic.

andrea