I wanted to post again with some pictures so you guys could take a look. For those who didn't read the first post (about 2 weeks ago), this is the background:

- location = Palm Springs, CA - soil = desert-like, lots of sun, and plenty of water (daily drip irrigation), hard water. I don't really know about the soil quality, of whether the gardener prepared it correctly when the bushes were planted

- have 10 bushes, half at least 4 years old, half is about 1 year

- only 2 bushes are doing fine, but many of the others are not so good. Basically the problems are:

1) tiny rose buds shooting right off the base, or tiny scrawny multiple buds blooming fast

2) multiple canes looking weak, pencil-like. How many canes should I keep on each bush? and how long should they be? 2 to 3 feet?

3) every time I deadhead, the next bud growing at that spot is smaller than the previous, with a smaller flower

4) how long does it typically take for a new bush to grow into thick/dense canes + foliage? several years?

I don't know hwo to proceed ... should I just leave it alone? should I keep pruning throughout the summer? I'm really frustrated over this, especially when I see the neighbors' beautiful bushes!

My pics are here:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1lmii0baq0w3bpc/GU8gW-4AC2

Sorry I couldn't figure out why the pics are rotated on DropBox, they look fine on my computer.

Thank you for any help or ideas/tips!

Gil
gmont66 at yahoo

I'd replace the gravel with a thick (3"-4") mulch of compost or bark. Keep the mulch a couple of inches away from the base of the plant. That will cool the soil somewhat and help them deal with the heat. It also holds in moisture so you don't have to water quite so much. Over time it also significantly improves the soil and offsets the high pH water somewhat as well.

Also, you may be over watering. Roses love water but don't want to be drowned either. If all the tiny spaces between soil particles is filled with water, without any spaces left for oxygen, the plant roots can suffocate. Roots need oxygen, not just water.

You don't say what you fertilize with or how much or when you did it. That would be helpful to know.

Long term, take an interest in and get to know desert plants more appropriate to your climate. You will have an easier time of it, and they are as beautiful in their own way as roses.

I know there isn't a lot you can do about it, but your roses are all too close to that stucco wall. If there is any direct sun on the way, it gets HOT, radiating that heat around the plants and cooking the water out of them. The stone mulch heats up also, and that cooks out the water. Replace the stone mulch with something organic: planting mix, shredded cedar, something which holds water and does not heat up to become a source of solar heat. Feeder roots are very close to the surface of the soil. Hot surface temps cook the plants' digestive tract. Get rid of the stones and replace them with something organic.

I would NOT prune those plants, period. Do not cut off any wood unless it is dead or obviously dying. There are stored nutrients in it and those plants need them to survive and, hopefully, rebound. Personally, I would not permit them to flower for the rest of this year. They will continue trying to flower (ovulate) trying to reproduce before they die to perpetuate the species. Pinch off the flower buds but leave all the foliage and wood on the plants. Force them to grow and use all the resources they have to grow.

You want available moisture, not mud. See how moist the soil remains once you've replaced the rocks with an organic mulch and adjust your watering accordingly. I have no idea how sandy or compacted the soil in those planters is, so can make no suggestion for how much, how long or how frequently to water. You're going to have to accomplish this one by observation and trial and error. If it's compacted clay as around much new construction, it will require less water. If it's sandy back fill from older construction, you'll need much more.

The plants look the way they do because they have been continually baked, tops and roots. They are alive probably because of all the water you've applied. Providing them with a much more suitable root environment; encouraging them to produce foliage and canes instead of flowers until they have enough foliage mass to actually shade themselves and provide the food production they need, with enough storage capacity in the canes for any excess, will go far toward getting them to appear and perform as you expect.

I am concerned about how hot that wall behind them can get. I had a customer who lives in Agua Dulce, fairly high desert, who reported on a hundred degree day, he measured 130 degrees reflected heat, one foot away from his white stucco wall. Saguaro cactus will tolerate those temps, but NOT their roots and not roses! Kim

You've gotten good info and advice from everyone here. Follow it and they should do better for you.

I only put stones down where I don't want anything to grow.

Can't say how much, or how often, because there is a lot we don't know. You might try contacting a local Consulting Rosarian. I don't find a listing anymore for Palm Springs Rose Society, but I do find one for La Quinta. (See below.) Note that some of these listings may be nastily out of date, but try several, and you should likely find one.

Jeri
Coastal Ventura Co., SoCal

The previous owners had used river rock mulch on all 4 sides of the house. Nothing we planted would survive, and we eventually had to remove it all. There was over 6 tons of it on the property and if you want to see me have a holy fit, just mention using rock as mulch within earshot.

Not only does it bake the bejeezus out of your plants, it provides a double-whammy of compacting the soil underfoot as you step into your planted beds to work them.

Get rid of the rock!(did I already say that)...