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| I think I'm finally ready to tell my horribly embarassing story from this past April. I accidentally paid (in a round-about way) over $400 for 'Bernadette Lafont'...yes, $400 and still no plant!
I was in Paris this past April and saw her potted in a 3g container at the flower market near Notre Dame. I had the wonderful idea to try to bring her back in my suitcase. I trimmed her down, took some cuttings just as insurance and put those in my carryon, bagged her and hoped for the best. I figured the worst that would happen was I'd be out the $30 or so dollars I paid for her, and I'd still have my cuttings, if she was found by customs. Well, my husband and I made it out of Paris no problem, then when we got to Philidephia the trouble started. First, we got flagged somehow by US Customs and were sent straight to the Agriculture area of Customs where we had to dump out both of our suitcases, both carryones, and my purse so that customs could go through them (dirty laundry and all!!). They kept asking us if we had walked through any pastures or been on any farms. They scraped the bottom of my husbands shoes even. I told the Customs Agent that I had a rose in my suitcase, and he said it should be fine (come to find out he thought it was a cut rose, not potted). We ended up having to repack our own suitcases, and of course the rose was confiscated. They even kept the cuttings they found in my carryon. Worst part is I received a $400 fine for bringing soil & plants into the US...and still no rose!! Our Customs delay even caused us to miss our connecting flight to Knoxville! I guess I learned my lesson, a very expensive lesson, and all of my co-workers and friends got a good laugh out of it. They still keep referring to me as the "Rose Smuggler." Hope you enjoyed my little story, and maybe learned something too :) Funny thing is my husband still thinks we were randomly chosen for a baggage search (guess the fact that we were sent to the Agriculture section never clicked)...hehe Tammy
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Here is a link that might be useful: Bernadette LaFont
Follow-Up Postings:
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| Wow, that's a major bummer! I wonder if you had completely barerooted the plant and washed all the soil off, if they would've let you go thru with it that way? |
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| I thought things like that only happened to me. She is a beautiful rose, but maybe not quite that pretty. Thank you for the giggle. |
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| Well, now you have a story to tell for years to come. At least they didn't arrest you. |
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| I guess in hindsight, maybe I would have had better luck leaving the potted part, and just bringing the cuttings. or As much as I hate to admit it, the best thing would have been to just leave the rose there at the Flower Market in the first place :( Tammy |
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| No, evidently someone saw the plant and/or cuttings on an XRay and flagged you. Even bare rooted, they would still have confiscated the plant. There are strict laws governing what can be brought in, and how. Before you can attempt what was done, you need an import permit, all the proper documentation from the supplying nursery and you have to declare it at customs then follow their instructions. It's all a huge hassle, but if it's the only way to get what you want, you have to decide if it's worth it. Kim |
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| Next time just ship it to yourself lol :) Thats what I will do one day when I travel to Europe and UK. My stop mom in law have me the idea to get a rose from places that I have traveled. So instead of getting those cheap souvenirs I can get some that keeps giving hehe |
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| So are you not getting it back? |
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| Wow! What a story! I really enjoyed reading it you "rose smuggler" you....lol Great story! |
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| Well, Bernadette is lovely....I'm just saying! Several years ago some poster on this forum tried to organize a group order from Europe. She got permits and notified whoever is supposed to be--did all the correct things, in other words. Later she had long reports to this forum about everything that could go wrong going wrong. Turned out to be a headache and a half--at least! By the time she actually got the plants (which she was going to distribute to the others in the project), the poor plants were all dried out. I don't remember the poster's name and I don't remember seeing a follow-up celebrating the resurrection of any of the plants, so I must assume the whole project ended up a loser. And she did it all the correct (legal!) way! Hmmm, so now we have "rose rustlers" and "rose smugglers." What next? Hiding drugs in the roots and smuggling the roses over the Mexican-American border or something? Who would have thought a bunch of gardeners could become so unscrupulous! LOL Kate |
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| Well, Bernadette is lovely....I'm just saying! Several years ago some poster on this forum tried to organize a group order from Europe. She got permits and notified whoever is supposed to be--did all the correct things, in other words. Later she had long reports to this forum about everything that could go wrong going wrong. Turned out to be a headache and a half--at least! By the time she actually got the plants (which she was going to distribute to the others in the project), the poor plants were all dried out. I don't remember the poster's name and I don't remember seeing a follow-up celebrating the resurrection of any of the plants, so I must assume the whole project ended up a loser. And she did it all the correct (legal!) way! Hmmm, so now we have "rose rustlers" and "rose smugglers." What next? Hiding drugs in the roots and smuggling the roses over the Mexican-American border or something? Who would have thought a bunch of gardeners could become so unscrupulous! LOL Kate |
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| Well, Bernadette is lovely....I'm just saying! Several years ago some poster on this forum tried to organize a group order from Europe. She got permits and notified whoever is supposed to be--did all the correct things, in other words. Later she had long reports to this forum about everything that could go wrong going wrong. Turned out to be a headache and a half--at least! By the time she actually got the plants (which she was going to distribute to the others in the project), the poor plants were all dried out. I don't remember the poster's name and I don't remember seeing a follow-up celebrating the resurrection of any of the plants, so I must assume the whole project ended up a loser. And she did it all the correct (legal!) way! Hmmm, so now we have "rose rustlers" and "rose smugglers." What next? Hiding drugs in the roots and smuggling the roses over the Mexican-American border or something? Who would have thought a bunch of gardeners could become so unscrupulous! LOL Kate |
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| I have no idea why that post posted 3 times. Sorry about that. Kate |
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- Posted by TNGardener19 TN (My Page) on Tue, Jun 26, 12 at 12:23
| That's quite a story and something that would happen to me. I wish they had been that diligent when someone brought a Japanese multiflora rose over along with my new friend, RRD! (see Strange Formation thread) |
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| You can TRY shipping it to yourself. I've known a few for whom it worked. I also experienced someone shipping me a plant in a box from Europe as a "gift". What arrived was an empty box with a note from the USDA saying, "Do NOT try this again!". No fines, but definitely not something I wish to mess with. No, you won't get that plant back. It was destroyed. There were no permits in place for it to be brought in under. There had been no visits to make sure you have somewhere to hold it in quarantine nor any signed agreement that you understand what is required of you nor what the penalties you will incur will be for not following the rules. Better to do it right in the first place. Even then, there are going to be surprises, most of which are not pleasant. Kim |
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| Kate, I think you just wanted us all to REALLY read your post :) It seems like it is very difficult to do things the "right" way and actually get a plant that survives. Kim, what about international cutting exchanges? Is it legal to send the cuttings to/from overseas since there's no soil involved? There's just so many cultivators that are only available in Europe and its so tempting :) But, I guess we both learned our lessons...you with the empty box, and me with my fine. I understand they legality behind it, but at the same time, it makes me laugh because there are so many worse things brought into the country without being noticed...a rose should be the least of the government's concern IMHO of course :) Tammy |
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| It would seem so Tammy, but this is how we got the citrus insects we're battling now. There is a new borer in Italy and elsewhere in Europe which is destroying many genera of ornamentals. There is no way to know what valuable crops they might destroy if unleashed here. I know many make it in by themselves as well as in airliners and on travelers. We'd nearly eliminated bed bugs in this country, but they are now tremendous issues with them because of travelers from Asia where they are wide spread. Five Star hotels you'd never expect to have such issues are plagued by them. I know quite a few of the import restrictions were supported, encouraged, by American business as a means of limiting competition, but there honestly are many pathogens and insect pests "out there" we genuinely don't want to let loose here. As for international cutting exchanges, it would all depend where they are originating, what the cuttings are and where they are going. There is a whole list of plant genera and species on the USDA site we are NOT permitted to bring into the US. They are there, listed clearly and plainly for all to read. Follow the rules and do it legally and you should have no problems. I have sent rose bud wood to Europe and there are really no restrictions. Ship Priority Mail, declare on a customs form "wood samples, no value" and there are no problems. The reverse is NOT true. Sending rose seeds to Australia is the same, but green material is a definite NO. You have to find out what is allowable. Kim |
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| Thanks Kim, so when you say "the reverse is not true," you mean that I can ship TO Europe, but not recieve FROM Europe? I guess that makes sense when you look at Nurseries like Vintage Gardens and Angel Gardens who have "European Import" 3 year (maybe 2 year, I can't remember) wait lists (I'm patiently waiting on 4 varieties from Angel Gardens which will be released next year...yeah!) I guess the best thing to do in that case is to let the nurseries do all the import paperwork, and follow proper protocal...as hard as that can be :) |
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| That's right Tammy. I send bud wood to The Netherlands which is budded this summer and in European gardens the following spring. Here, the material has to be kept in quarantine, at least ten feet from anything else in the genus rosa, inspected twice annually until released, THEN they may begin propagating from it. That puts it at least three years from receipt to sale. If they imported enough plants to sell, they could supply some in two years, but that's expensive and space consuming. Kim |
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- Posted by prettypetals GA 7 (My Page) on Tue, Jun 26, 12 at 23:44
| Thanks for the funny funny story you rose smuggler you!! I wish I had it so I could send you a clipping. Judy |
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- Posted by melissa_thefarm NItaly (My Page) on Wed, Jun 27, 12 at 0:40
| It's a funny story, and so is Kim's about the empty box and warning message. This is a case where I believe we'll all be better off if we follow the rules. Judging by the many times I've passed through Italian customs, I don't think I'd have the slightest difficulty smuggling in cuttings. But when I think of the possibility that I might thereby be introducing Rose Rosette Disease to Europe, I become very, VERY law-abiding. Melissa |
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| All the illegal immigrants pouring through our borders and little can be done to stop them - and customs is worried about a rose bush and a few cuttings??? Senseless..... |
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| No, it's not senseless alameda. Commercial agriculture is one of the largest export businesses in the US. An imported pest that destroys a commercial crop, like the "greening" disease is threatening to do to Citrus, is a big, big deal. Hundreds of thousands of jobs at stake. Two words for thought: Japanese Beetle. |
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| Add Asian Citrus Leaf Miner; Asian Citrus Psyllid (Diaphorina citri Kuwayama); Eucalyptus Psyllid; Light Brown Apple Moth; Mediterranean and Asian Fruit Flies; and the new borer they've found in Italy and a few other European nations, whose name I can't find, but is feared as it destroys many ornamentals and food plants. It seems moronic, believe me, particularly when you have to jump through the stupid hoops just to sign up to REQUEST an import permit (I'm doing it right now). Not to actually OBTAIN it, but to REQUEST it. Heaven only knows what other insects diseases lurk out there. We've seen the wonderful "imports" the USDA has unleashed on us..Kudzu and R. Multiflora just to name the most "popular". Brought to you by the same people who wanted to deliberately release RRD to "control" the multiflora. Import restrictions are definitely in our best interests. Kim |
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| SO if I want to order roses overseas who are some nursery's that ship to us? |
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| Most of the ones listed on HMF, except those in Italy, Australia and New Zealand (which are banned by the USDA). Look up the wonderful roses you want or fantasize about and see which foreign nurseries sell them. Their HMF pages indicate which ones ship where. I know 16-Eichen, der Bierkreek, Loubert and many British ones ship here. Kim |
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| Thanks Kim :) |
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| Thats exciting! I didn't realise any European sellers would ship here. I have a nursery owner in Hungary who contacted me to exchange cuttings but I never really replied because I didn't want to do anything illegal...again. |
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| You're welcome Tammy and Jessica! While you may easily send the Hungarian nursery things, it's quite a bit more complicated for him to send you things. I chronicaled my exploits on the What Roses Would You Kill For on the Antique Rose forum, copied below. In it, you will find addresses for you to explore what you can do and how to get started. It CAN be fun, and it CAN be a nightmare! Kim RE: What impossible to find rose would you maybe kill for? clip this post email this post what is this? Posted by roseseek z 10, SoCal (My Page) on Mon, Jun 25, 12 at 18:25 Gean, it's fairly simple to apply for an import permit. Go to this address and create your account. There are two levels of "security" and no where does it properly explain which one you need. I've just gone through it. Here is what is needed. Create the Level One Security Account. It takes just a few minutes. Then, use the link to find the most local USDA Customer Service Center to you as you MUST take your "state issued photo ID" with you to a service center, spend two minutes for a USDA employee to verify you are who you say you are, click on a tab on their computer screen and you leave. In my case, it required a sixty mile round trip and eleven minutes from the time we walked in to the office to the time we walked out. I had to wait a few minutes for the employee to be available. Of course, as they are fequently not in the office, call them first to make a firm appointment to be "verified". You would think I was trying to import people or nuclear materials! Once you return home, you will find an email in your email inbox with instructions to log in to your Level Two Security Account to complete it. Takes a minute on high speed. NOW, you want to apply for: Permit application type: PPQ 546 Agreement for Postentry Quarantine State Screening Notice I also applied for a PPQ 587 which, from the descriptions, seemed applicable, but they voided it and said this was all that was necessary. NOW, I wait.... until someone there notices they have to come out to inspect the site to make sure I can handle the applied for shipments for two years, a minimum of ten feet from anything else in the genus rosa. You have to tell them the country of origin for the roses you wish to import and the maximum number you intend to receive. Make sure the nursery you want to order from ships here. The countries we can't import from are Italy, Australia and New Zealand per the current USDA guidelines on the site. If you are ordering from two different countries, two different sites will be required to quarantine the plants so you need two places, ten feet from anything else in rosa, to separate the shipments. Once they do their part, you should receive labels and paperwork you need to forward to the sending nurseries for them to follow and use. Once you have those, you may order the plants and arrange the details. However, be forewarned, there is a new (or new since I ordered in the 80s) industry here called "The Expeditors". Traditionally, the package is mailed with the appropriate labels using the specified method of shipment and arrives at the specified USDA inspection station. There are five in the US. There, they try to kill the plants by treating them with the required chemicals to make sure there are no pests or diseases, they are repacked and mailed on to you. Now, "The Expeditors" intercept the package and deliver it to the USDA inspection station. For this "service", I have heard of fees of $600 for one shipment. Not hundreds of rose plants, just a dozen or so. The shipping nursery I will order from feels they have a way around "The Expeditors", which is what we are testing. If all goes well, there will be some unusual things here this fall/winter. If not, there will be dead rose bushes in a box the government has to deal with. If it goes as expected, twice a year for two years I have to make the roses available for a County Ag Agent to physically inspect for pests and diseases we don't already have. For those two years, you aren't to propagate from the plants, nor really even cut flowers which may get too close to other roses. If the plants die, you are to inform them and hold the carcasses for pick up. If everything goes to their liking, the quarantine period can be reduced to one year, but that's up to the inspectors. I know there weren't fees involved previously, but I have to find out about now. Something you should check with your State Ag Dept about. Knowing California, they'll want fees for answering the phone and NOT knowing the answers. Seem like something you want to mess with? I was blessed to be permitted to hitch a ride on to a friend's import from The Netherlands for two plants of Dr. E. M. Mills, the Van Fleet Hugonis hybrid released in 1929. It is now out of quarantine and will be sent to Burlington in August for propagation. Finally, after more than seventy years, Dr. Van Fleet's Hugonis creation will be commercially available here again. Had there been hundreds of dollars for "fees" for those two plants, they would NOT be here. If you want to go there, after you've created your account and taken it to level two, go to the link below and "create an application". The type is Plant Protection and Quarantine. You want form PPQ 546 Agreement for Postentry Quarantine State Screening Notice. Kim
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| Gesh... |
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| Yup, get the idea why I said it was as if I wanted to import nuclear materials? The response was, "The USDA just wants to make sure they know who they are talking to." Kim |
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| Wow! That was educational! I'm excited that Burlington is going to offer the plants plants you listed as well. I like the fact that certain nurseries are going to the trouble to import these varieties to the US and offer them commercially. It's quite an amazing process! |
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| EuroDesert imported many hundreds of varieties, including Blue for You. Vintage has endured that kind of importing for many OGRs. Heirloom obviously has to be able to offer the Harkness roses they've offered in the past. I found Dr. Mills on a Swedish garden list and had the connection through Ashdown with Bierkreek. Hans there luckily knew the gentleman at the Swedish garden and was able to obtain Dr. Mills and reintroduce it. Very fortunately for me, a friend up north had an import order coming in from Bierkreek and she wonderfully, graciously and generously permitted me to tag two plants on to her order and held them in the two year quarantine. Burlington has also graciously agreed to accept one of the plants, nearly bare rooted, in August as she can handle it, keeping it alive in the heat where I couldn't. That's how Burlington will eventually become the first American nursery to offer this rare rose in many decades. The last documented offering I can find of it anywhere in this country is 1929. The only two photographs of this rose are the 1926 and 1929 black and white photos from the ARS annuals I posted to HMF, until actual color photographs were possible from the Bierkreek plants. There has been very good interest in Europe. Here, the Dr. Edmund M. Mills garden in Syracuse, New York wants it as Dr. Mills started the Syracuse Rose Society, one of, if not the oldest chapter of the ARS. The ARS gardens in Shreveport is also interested in plants, from what I've heard. That's very gratifying to me as I have found it interesting since first "discovering" it many years ago in the old ARS annuals. I want it to breed with my 1-72-1Hugonis hybrid in hopes of raising repeat flowering Hugonis type shrubs. If all goes according to plan, Burlington will have some other pretty special things available next year from bud wood being sent beginning next month. Keep your fingers crossed! Kim |
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| Thats exciting :) |
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| I agree! Thanks! Kim |
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| Oh nooo! What a bummer! I am so sorry that happened, but it does make a great story (later). :) I once tried to bring sugar cane back from Jamaica, and customs didn't care for that idea either. But it was 20+ years ago, so they just confiscated my sugar cane. |
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- Posted by mendocino_rose z8 N CA. (My Page) on Mon, Jul 2, 12 at 10:00
| I thought I should add that a friend of mine says there is an import ban in place at the present time. She has roses sitting at Bierkreek that they can't send right now. Also budwood is required to be a certain diameter and can't be sent if it's too large. |
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