I'm on my way out the door to spray the @#$! beetles. I have noticed that the most frequent contributors to this forum are very organic, and more power to them, but I'm into the bottom line, which is pretty roses. Nothing's foolproof with beetles, but my Bayer Insect, Mite, and Disease control (purchased at WalMart) does a good job. It also lets me make one pass for all my spraying needs. So, as the organic lectures arrive, know that at least one other person is out there spraying the beetles.

Nancy thank you for your honesty.

mehearty, I have sprayed for beetles. As you said, if you just leave them, the damage multiplies. Plus they are laying eggs for next year.

If you can't pick them off, then try waiting till they congregate and then try to spray the beetles only, not the plant. I've found that much more effective. Preventive spraying doesn't do much IMO.

I have been plagued by the JB for more than 5 years. I spent most of last winter trying to come up with the best insecticide and trying to decide if I would actually use it. As it turned out, beetle numbers are way, way down in my garden this year and I might not have to make any decision at all - knock on wood. For what it's worth, if you're going to spray anyway, my suggestion for the best choice would be permethrin, for the following reasons:

1) Permethrin appears to have much lower toxicity to mammals and birds compared to Merit (imidacloprid).

2) Like all insecticides, permethrin is highly toxic to bees, but there is a possibility that this may be tempered by the repellent effect of permethrin.

2) Studies of homeowner insecticides for the control of Japanese beetles suggest that permethrin offers better and longer-lasting control compared to Merit.

The Cutters product for backyard mosquito control (linked below) is a readily-available source for a permethrin spray.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cutters Permethrin

I have just seen my first JB's. Only two. My DW
will not let me spray for them. You know. Kills
the bees, butterflies. etc. I have the stuff to
kill them. (outlawed now) She used windex and
they dropped like flies. Maybe I will sneek out
and put some death on them without her knowing.

This is an honest question, not an attempt to be difficult. (You remember me, Mehearty . . . )

If preventive spraying doesn't do any good (and I believe it doesn't, from what I've read), and therefore you have to have the JBs in sight so you can hit them with the spray, why not knock them into a container of soapy water instead?

The only reason I can think of for choosing spray over drowning is if the JBs are too high to reach.

Susan

alisande - you can't knock them all off if there are 100's on your plants, and sometimes there are. As soon as you hit one part, the rest all fly away, only to return later. You can, however, spray the piles of bugs while they are on the roses or trees you can reach. It's much more effective.

jlalfred, alisande, dancingnancy, I've been on a longer thread, don't want to go through it all here again and waste everybody's time.

Windex or permethrin? Regular Windex?

Briefly, my first strategy was to move the traps, may phase them out, and pick 3-4 X a day front and back right now, hope it tapers off.

The thing about picking and am now finding some clusters, hard to get them all w/o them getting away. I was brushing and knocking into the soapy water. Now I am grasping them firmly in my index, middle fingers and thumb and getting them in the water the best way I can. When they're on something I can dip in the soapy water, I do that so they are less likely to fly off as I make sure I've picked the whole cluster off (tricky depending on how many), can't get them all by picking so wait for them to come back somewhere, even got one off the house the really icky fingers way, no way to knock that one into anything, more likely to rear up its hind legs and take off quicker than whatever.

BUT if they mass more than they have or too high, plus they are temporarily distracted when they are massed/paired/feeding, if Windex won't hurt my plants, or Cutters, or minimal to insects, etc. that would be a good backup, aim at bugs only. Or dancingnancy's Bayer product (different than the one I was being told about on the other thread).

Do they both really work equally well? Which one really knocks them dead the best of the 3 in my post besides soapy water - which I will keep using as long as I'm able?

Then, of course, try to do or get help with grub control spring and fall have time to read more and think about which one of those to use.

Consider what golf courses routinely do, and organic gardeners too-- eliminate your JB population by innoculating your lawn and beds with milky spore. This will interrupt the life cycle of the beetles without killing earthworms and all the healthy microbial life in the soil. Do a search on 'milky spore' to learn more. Much better to treat your lawn with milky spore, which is specific to the beetles, than something like GrubX. Milky spore comes in powder form and you apply a teaspoon every four feet-- or there's a formula for a drop spreader which requires multiple applications.

I've never sprayed, and for several years I was vigilant about knocking the JBs off as soon as a saw them. I must have killed millions. (I throw the grubs into the street if I'm working in my front garden -- they are so gross.)

During the past two years, I've seen very few. I do not know if my hard work paid off or if I am just lucky. I do wonder how long this respite will last. I mostly grow once-bloomers, but this year I have seen few beetles on my rugosas and none at all on my usual JB-magnet plants (especially flowering plum tree, balloon flower, perennial sweet pea)

I just got off the phone with an ag guy at the ext ofc who sounded like he knew what he was talking about. Take the traps down. Pick and soapy water and if you must use a contact spray, pick up something like Bayer Mite and Insect Control and read what it says on the container.

That left GrubX, Milky Spore, thought there was one other for grubs. This is exactly what he told me. Milky Spore does not work well in the midwest, better to use GrubX, spread it before the end of this month, morning or evening and try to catch it before it rains so it will wash it in, think he said not to apply it after it rained and not with anything else granular. You are trying to kill the larvae as they hatch out here shortly from eggs laid this year.

Didn't recommend treating for grubs in the spring, could get a second opinion on that for our area, like maybe I'll call who manages the golf course and parks plus the people who manage the rose garden and hope they will get back to me, no more today.

Asked if he'd had many calls (my 2nd call to them different person), quite a few, not necessarily worse this year, depends on your part of the wider area. People in the outlying towns (and probably surrounding rural) where it flooded are having problems with them and calling. Tells them to pick by hand, too, but if you're on an acreage or several acres, that could alter the equation.

So, yes, I've been drawing them in, but live quite about 1/2 mi as the crow flies to a good section of 18-hole golf course where they probably treat for grubs, and possibly the grassed park and garden areas in the park as well, so they might have even been worse with my traps if they don't? I'm sure they must treat for grubs, fairly elementary for a golf course.

Now I'm going to try to get ahold of the rose club person and ask him what he knows and does for his large rose garden plus he would know some about managing the park rose garden.

I made a decision a decade ago that I didn't want to chance breathing in insecticides and I didn't want my husband to inhale insecticides. We were spraying fungicides then. So we decided to make the bags work for us. And they do.

And if you decide to go with Milky Spore, you might want to check and see if it's got a chance of surviving Maine winters with the ground frozen solid how deep?

Here is a link that might be useful: A success story

If you plan to use insecticides on the JB, the following might be worth reading

http://www.ca.uky.edu/agc/pubs/pr/pr520/pr520.pdf

(scroll down to page 21 to the article entitled, "Residual and Antifeedant activity of landscape insecticides against adult japanese beetles")

Two conclusions I came to: Of synthetic insecticides, permethrin is more effective than imidacloprid. Imidacloprid (Merit) is the insecticide in most Bayer insecticidal products.

Of Organic certified insecticides, Pyola (a mixture of natural pyrethrin and canola oil) is the most effective, followed by azadirachtin. If you decide to try azadirachtin, get the specific product mentioned in the article (Plants Alive's Bioneem) or one which lists azadirachtin on the label. Most Big Box stores sell a worthless version of neem oil which contains no azadirachtin.

Thank you so much everyone. This was a great, informative discussion. Our beetle numbers are down this year. My dh treats the lawn for grubs in spring and fall.

I knocked about 500 into a jar today which really wasn't horrible compared to past years. One year I resorted to spraying sevin which I hated. It kept the beetles off the trees for days and saved them. I did not spray the flowers.

The roses are loaded with bees and wasps. The irony is that I got stung today trying to pick beetles and avoid spraying something that would harm the creature that stung me. The rest of the roses are beetle lollipops. The nasty little buggers are even going after my sweet dreams coreopsis. Jerks.

I've decided to hold out a little longer and hope this season is shortlived (last year they went into October but the numbers were much higher). Mike if I spray, I will go with your recommendations. Thank you very much!

I'm interested to hear if other Maine gardeners have decreased numbers this year, too.

I used Pyola from Garden Alive last week. The beetles did not not drop dead, on the spot, from contact.

Does Pyola take a few hours to kill the beetles?
Also, it appeared to change the color of some buds.
Does the color change last, I would not know because the beetles eventually ate the bud up.
This is my worst year ever. I have been using Milky Spore for three years.
Iam going to continue with the Milky spores becasue I need some hope!
Bev

Treating with Milky Spore and Grub-X is only going to work insofar as YOUR yard will have reduced numbers. That doesn't mean the neighbors' hatched out beetles won't come eat your roses and fornicate on your trees.

You have to decide if the cost is worth it. One year we decided to try a parasitic wasp in additon to our cultural controls on our farmette to help control flies that breed in manure. It quickly occured to us that since the neighbor's flies were going to hang out at our house we were pretty much throwing our wasp money down the drain. :o( Now if THEY treated with wasps, too, that would be something. But that would have bordered on a miracle.)

I use Rose Pharm spray with peppermint oil, and Jungle Rain Clean Leaf spray with castile soap.

They do not have as powerful effect as a strong insecticide, but they work.

Bev, if you really have plague numbers of beetles and you want to use an insecticide to minimize the damage to your roses, you should probably forget about killing the beetles on your roses. Instead, you should concentrate on keeping them away from your roses in the first place. Permethrin, Pyola and azadirachtin are all repellents for beetles. The problem is that Rose blossoms emit powerful chemical attractants for beetles. For example, the chemical lure used in beetle traps is mostly phenylethanol, a major component of rose oil. Beetles also appear to release an attract when they feed. If a repellent/insecticide is to stand any chance of controlling beetle damage on roses, I would think the procedure would be to apply it before the beetles really arrive in numbers, and keep applying it perhaps every other day until the beetle season is over. I would think spraying your entire rose bed; leaves, blossoms, and the soil itself, with the insecticide from a hose-end sprayer would give you the best chance of success. If you start the treament after the beetles have arrived, I would remove all the damaged blossoms before spraying. All of this amounts to an extreme use of an insecticide. I'm not at all sure I would be willing to try it with a synthetic insecticide, I might be willing to try it with pyola or azadirachtin - and, of course, I'm not at all sure it would work.

The beetles don't seem quite as bad this year. I did Milky Spore last fall but I doubt that did anything yet. I'm hoping the Milky Spore will eventually work as it is a very safe, specific control. As for only treating my yard, well, my yard is the one with all the roses and fruit trees so I get most of the beetles in my neighborhood. I assume they don't go too far to lay their eggs as they don't seem like very good fliers.

So far the beetles have been mostly on my raspberries as the roses were between flushes when they first arrived. I can't spray the raspberries with anything as I like eating the berries which are ripe now. So I knock the beetles off into soapy water as best I can. I don't worry about getting them all. I figure as long as I get some of them that there will be fewer next year.

Just in case, I decided to get some more bags, called the hardware store 2 days ago, they had plenty. Tonight I get down there and the 200 traps w/bait and an extra bag had flown off the shelves, clerk says bad this year and another shipment arrives late afternoon tom. They still had a couple pkts of bait and a couple boxes of 3 bags each so took 2 boxes of bags, no bait. If the bait I have weakens, may not be a bad thing. Can always return them if I don't open. This is the local Tru Value, not exactly one of the big box stores.

So maybe people (and I) are making a big mistake, but by bagging and picking right along, there didn't seem to be so many today, but they seem to come and go in waves. Glad I moved the bags. Less effective, but I know where to look to pick and just a couple on my cherry trees and rose that were too near the traps before, same w/Harison but more on Charlotte in front again, those almost clean for a couple days, little leaf damage there. They aren't just going after the blooms, but see leaf damage on several bushes that aren't blooming at all perhaps from luring more in. Moving the traps seems to have helped but am keeping close eye on nearby plants. Am now picking some off my geranium blossoms near the back trap.

Son says he will spread for grubs for me but I told him even if he wasn't seeing any on his plants, he probably should treat his turf and said to do his first. It is supposed to rain a lot again, so I don't know if he'll get mine done in time or not.

Wish I could share lessons learned about the traps with some of those customers, think they might not know what they are doing or they would have gotten on it almost 2 weeks ago like I did. But maybe they weren't that bad yet, came later than mine or didn't notice them right away. I was watching for them. This is still relatively new for my area for most people.

This Friday will be two weeks. How many more to go? I will note the last sighting in my diary. And keep picking, 4X a day front and back now but am not seeing but a couple earlier in the morning like some of you are, worst starts mid-morning or near noon.

mehearty, I feel for you. They are very very bad here in Saco, but I have managed to keep them under control in my garden.

From what I have experienced and read, once you have the beetles, no amount of spray, of whatever kind, will keep the beetles off your roses in a preventative way. The problem is that the beetles are attraced to the rose flowers much more so than the foliage. Roses being roses, the buds are in a perpetual state of unfurling. So the outer petals present yesterday that got sprayed might be toxic, but the more inner petals opening today are not.

I think if the beetles solely ate the foliage, we would be better able to control them with a systemic. We also have lily leaf beetles here, which are voracious on lilies. Their preferred food is the lily foliage vs. flowers, so I am easily able to knock them out with the Bayer and not have to repeat so often.

What I do is go around my garden at least once a day with a spray bottle of the mixed-from-concentrate Bayer Insect Killer and spray each and every beetle I see. Sometimes I do it 2 or 3 x day. It is much more effective than hand-picking, as they don't fly away. By keeping the beetles from building up on my roses, less are attracted to fly in.

With this method, my numbers are very low compared to anyone else around here who grows roses, or anything else that is primary JB food source.

This beetle season has left me somewhat confused.

It seems as though we have slightly fewer beetles than last year. There are still enough to completely destroy every bloom on any pastel-colored rose.

I did not put out my traps this year. Maybe they'll go out this weekend to see if there is a change...

Last year was the first year I did not apply grub killer. None since '06.

I think careful, limited spraying is somewhat effective. I spot spray blooms which have piles of beetles. I use one trigger-spray bottle of Bayer per season. The bucket of soapy water also gets plenty of use.

Harry, you must have sent them my way because I'm at loss as to what happened in my yard. Granted, this is only my third year with roses, but the past 2 years I can honestly say I saw less than a dozen of them. This year I want to cry. I walk around with a spray bottle AND a soapy water dish numerous times a day, and each time there are more of them. GRRR.

---
Wendy

Aliska,
Please go to my linked page and to the link I posted there to my old webpage (Rocky Top Roses) and see the trap contraption my husband designed so we can just empty the container into a bucket of soapy water with a small amount of insecticide. The bags don't have to be replaced if you choose to follow that way.

One female can lay 40 eggs. Ignoring the beetles is the worst choice.

If this thread and this forum has taught me anything about JB's, it is that they are quite unpredictable. It seems to me that when their numbers are expected to be overwhelmingly high, they are not. Folks who never used to see any are having plague numbers. Roses they used to love are being ignored, and plants they used to ignore are being consumed. Some folks are saying 'traps are bad,' while others say 'PLEASE trap them!' Then the traps either rdaw them by the thousands or are completely ineffective.

Are there ANY hard facts about JB beetle control other than for every beetle you kill (your choice of weapon) you are preventing the possible laying of 40 eggs?

Some areas of the country have managed to get JB numbers under control, or even GONE. How did they do it?

Why do I hear about plague-like swarms around the local golf course, and see gross numbers in the nearest city, but we have comparitively few in our yard? We hand-pick no more than a couple dozen once or twice a day, no traps (nor traps at neighbors), no grub control, no insecticides. I am not bragging, just making a statement about the incongruity of the situation.

What gives?

One female can lay 40 eggs. Ignoring the beetles is the worst choice.

Agreed. anntn6b, I saved your graphic of the basic and modified designs and sure thank you for them and much help elsewhere. I don't know how to explain it, but I am going through a severe depression plus anxiety out of control again plus a medical issue right now, a new glasses issue; I'm not wearing them if they can't make them better, my money, a lot now for 2 pr, and it's all I can do to keep going especially when I have to go outside in the heat and humidity to keep stuff alive out there, way behind but even yesterday lugged buckets of wet decaying leaves for mulch. I'm finally starting to feel hungry again sometimes could hardly eat for over a month, had to force myself, lost weight, got weak. Ok, the medical issue is my blood pressure, they changed my med, got it better, but sent my electrolyte balance off so had to do another quick change and another blood test coming up, abnormal heart rhythm they decided is abnormal but normal, heart ok so far they say, ran an EKG, showed up suddenly so wonder if it was the med now. Not that it is anybody's business, but we're mostly friends here. Also the back problem doesn't shut me down always but limits how much I can do at a time. Luckily the pain goes away by the next day, except sometimes bad bouts lasting 2 weeks or more. Chiropractor next door, one hurt my back once really bad, and physical therapy? Didn't help my friend. Could be much, much worse at my age I'm well aware what some people are going through and count my blessings of what isn't wrong.

Last year I built a big frame for my lights out of pvc pipe, not very professional but works fine, rigged up all sorts of things. So I can do things but usually run into some stupid, unanticipated problem. I'm used to cobbling things together what I can. Your traps don't look that difficult but the least little detail I don't understand or what to cut with or how, etc., I get stuck. For this year it's just easier to replace the bags. I was going to show it to my son, but if he's going to give up time to help me, I'd rather he spread for grubs, another half measure, and other things I absolutely cannot do, all stacked up here.

Now this morning I see 4 roses damaged that aren't even blooming, never thought to check those. 3 were weak anyway so they may be goners. Those are close to where I moved the front trap, just have roses too close to them no matter where I put them and do seem to need the 2 because the house and lot are long and narrow and way the air and wind currents drift.

I got my dates mixed up, noted in my diary when they showed up. 3 weeks tomorrow. After this year, I can deal with better catchers. The only thing about those is I'd like something semi opaque because I'm on the corner here and I'd rather not people have to SEE what is in those bags which they can't.

This is one I don't know if I should even post or not but will take a chance. I usually don't share about my health issues except w/close family and not much with friends. Most people don't understand my mental health issues, even my doctors, just keep trying something different. I don't understand some of it myself. I'm used to that.

Aliska,
There are times when beetles, RRD, even a cat choosing to eat a baby rabbit indoors seem to be a tipping point. Choose your fights. Take baby steps, and then bigger steps.

Right now, we're dealing with my FIL who early this week said "I buried the cat, the cat died and I buried it" when we found no cat food, water or kitty litter at his house. But we could hear the cat locked in his spare bedroom. We let the cat out. He said, in total innocence "That cats looks just like the one that died."
So we're dealing with trying to do things that are step 1, step 2, step 3 because once he forgets something, it's gone.

Roses, thank heavens are strong plants. Any plant that survived last springs freeze and the five month drought can make it with less than full coddling. Life becomes a matter of priorities.

And, yes, there are communities within the Japanese Beetle range that don't have them. One is Oak Ridge TN. Which was a test area for Milky Spore. According to one of the ag students at the time, Milky Spore was brought in by the 18 wheeler load and given to any and everybody who was willing to put it down. And the lots are fairly small, well tended and watered and shady (as their trees mature).

Milky spore spreads slowly to adacent property as infected beetles move over there or are dropped by birds. Beetles lay their eggs in grass so an area with a lot of lawn is a target. A friend got permission to treat his neighbors' lawns as well as his own - it was helpful.
If you are going to use traps, it's a good idea to place them down wind of your garden and at the edge of your property. They attract beetles so you want them attracted from your garden not your neighbor's.
I don't have a lawn and the prevailing winds come from the woods so my beetle population is minimal. But now that some people on our road have put in huge lawns, I expect we'll have more trouble.
The ground freezes up to three feet deep here in some winters - it has not prevented milky spore from working. Saco has a milder climate, so go for it.

anntn6b, thanks, I try to prioritize as best I can and sometimes just have to let things go. Just got in from watering and picking, no rain forecast, 1 hr 15 min out, then get back look at the weather forecast, revised, rain tonight lol. And every night all week! Sometimes you just can't win.

Didn't exactly "enjoy" the cat story because SOMEBODY's cat died, maybe a gray tabby like mine that died Apr 25 so many look alike. She was MINE for sure, didn't let her out, no cat in the spare bedroom, sad, but had to move on with fond memories, NO MORE CATS except the stray I feed.

Maybe the ag guys don't know everything and milky spore is the way to go; my ND neighbor plans on spreading it, likes the idea because the gf is organic. I didn't really PICK that many today, couple got away, out 4X and checked one more spot again, so maybe the bags are helping, not full, change tom eve, but heavy looking. Have to keep picking, was hoping it would start to ease up.

Former mailman came by, saw me picking, asked about them, said his new elm tree had been stripped of all its leaves while he was at work one day. Nothing on the local paper web page. OK, if they're as bad as some who do know are saying, they will multiply and be back worse next year no matter what I do or don't do. I'm confident all the roses will survive this, my first 12 soaked in a bucket 3 weeks waiting to plant during the last spring freeze, all lived. Did have to replace 2 new cherry trees, but saved everything else.

Everybody's worried about the price of gas, naturally, but if these get worse here or around the country, the officials are going to have to go into high gear and come up with a community action plan. In the meantime, I hope hope hope they will come up with something that will work better. One can always hope.

Mike_Rivers, I used to wonder why people seemed to ask the same questions ever year.
But now I figured it out. The longer you try to improve your roses the more meaning you get out
of an explanation from rosarians and the experience to "get it".
Thank you Mehearty for asking the question and a special Thank You to all the reponders.

I'm late answering this, and don't know that it will be of any help to anyone, but I'll tell you my story.

The beetles were awful last year. They destroyed everything that was blooming and ate leaves as well.

When the beetles first came this year, I started cutting every bloom as soon as it formed on the roses, and cut the canna lily flowers when they bloomed. I did not cut the wisteria blooms because you can only closely patrol so much, and because the wisteria had already had it's spectacular bloom in early spring. I decided to just knock the beetles from the wisteria into my bucket of soapy water. I knocked every beetle I saw into the soapy water no matter what plant they were currently destroying

I was free of them in less than a week. They were gone before the crepe myrtles (which have been beautiful) flowered.

I don't really know what happened. I have seen a number of large lizards in my yard this year (really large compared to the little ones I'm used to seeing)...I'm wondering if these big lizards eat beetles...but I don't know that they do.

I continue to cut the roses when they first form a bloom...no point in tempting fate, and I certainly don't want to do anything that might entice the beetles back to my yard.

Kay

"I'm late answering this, and don't know that it will be of any help to anyone, but I'll tell you my story. "
************
Good, I am glad you did! I honestly believe that sometimes more can be learned from other people's direct and true experience in a matter than from scientific 'studies.' (Not knocking science, by any means.) If 'science' says I can't grow a hybrid tea in northern Illinois, but my neighbor says you can and tells me how, I tend to believe the neighbor. ;)

ann, that is very, very fascinating about Oak Ridge TN. Sort of fits with what roser said about it spreading, and what a friend of mine just said the other day about it spreading. This is heartening, and makes me wonder how Oak Ridge managed to get to be a test area. Is there more data on the Oak Ridge experiment? Particularly hard numbers of poeple who participated, how long ago it was, and what follow-up there has been since. Also, were there any other control measures employed at the same time.

Please feel free to email me if it is too much to share here, and email me some RRD info, too, if you still wish!

I'm fairly new to JBs (two seasons). As yet they're numerous, but not the classic "hordes" some experience. However, I seem to be the only neighbor attempting control (suburb)

1) Can anyone cite their experience as to how long the adult JBs stay around? Haven't been able to find info on this part of their cycle. Do they hatch over a wide rather than narrow period? Do they stick around until dying of old age? ...until first freeze?

2) What is the longest number of seasons some of you have suffered?

3) Is it known what makes them eventually decline?

I collect 2-3 times daily from Boston ivy, roses, and a grape-like vine nearby where they have concentrated. Don't like seeing them suffer and found dishwashing detergent in the water greatly quickens their death. Found also that it took Orthene a full day to kill after spraying directly on them, while the residual is surely harmful to other good guys. And, could the sprayed JBs lay viable eggs in that interval?

Collecting them avoids such questions. For me, few fly to escape. Virtually all just drop when disturbed, making collection easy.

I notice a distinct increase of odor in the water as dead beetles accumulate, so I send it down the drain and bury the carcasses, to deter luring others.

But yes, if they're in your area and other neighbors aren't attempting control, it's a thankless battle. I treat for grubs and believe my buggers are coming in from elsewhere, altho I suppose my grub control is less than absolute.

At least it's not a plague of, say, frogs dropping from the sky, here in Ohio. I do miss the toads and Mantises of my childhood, however.

1. They stay around for a month and a half minimum. Their season (around here) used to be a about a month, but it seems the past few years their emergences have been staggered so the beetle season lasts from the end of June well into August. And there are many stragglers all the way to the end of August, into Sept.

2. Longest number of seasons? They're not cyclical like cicadas or locusts. Some years may be better than others, but once you have them they will return punctually year after year.

3. No. At least nothing consistent. Some states have introduced parasitic wasps that are specific to JBs, but these barely make a dent in the population. And with the widespready availability of Milky Spore, this has not seemed to make a dent in the population either. And us in the north have to consider the expense vs. effectiveness of milky spore (or the other purported beneficial nematodes) because there have been studies that our winters are usually too cold to carry over either organism.

They do get that distinct odor after lying around a few days dead. I tried placing the bucket around as a deterrent and it does nothing. I think that odor comes from whatever chemical is in their body that makes them distasteful to birds.

The lenght of infestation depends on its strength. It is a bell curve, the higher the peak the more broad it is. Areas where infestation is high have JBs for 9-10 weeks, moderate infestation - 6-7 weeks. Areas that are less infested can have it over in 3-4 weeks. So there is no average time, every area is different.
Olga

I have been putting out milky spore for four years now (its expensive and I have a lot of grass). It finally seems to be working. Next year I'm going to start sprinkling it on my neighbors lawns, or giving them a can for Christmas, or otherwise make it a neighborhood project. It takes awhile to see the difference, but it works, its organic. In thee meantime, I just brush them into a mayonaise jar about half full of water and then put the lid on. I don't even bother with soap.

There was an article in the Wall Street Journal yesterday about this problem. They had different cures posted that people had sent to them. One person said they used the milky spores and they had worked wonders after a few years. The one I loved was the person that had four Guinea Fowl and put traps in the enclosure. The beetles came looking for love and the Guinea's would snap them right out of the air.

Lance

dlcooper52; they have been here for many a year and they do persist from June25th until after Oct. 25th-was summer ever this long?? Fat, impudent brutes they are-devouring what-ever they like along the way-they don't prefer vegetables, our tomatoes are safe---bye-bye zinnias, roses, rich green grape leaves, altheas, lilies, where-ever they happen to land. wow; I could scream (eeegggh!!)-I sprayed (1/4 cup solution at least )with my insect killer when I saw a herd of them on a stem-but they swam upwards and flew away--OMG-I'm disgusted.--Maybe they die but WHEN?

Thanks to all for your helpful replies. Sounds like I need to hunker down and deal with the harsh reality. Didn't realize I could develop such animosity toward a creature!

catsrose, if you don't put soap in the water, they just swim and swim, takes much longer to die. I have made myself watch it for both ways, never timed the swimming death exactly. It seems to take 1 or possibly 2 minutes for them to appear dead in a little soapy water which is more humane imo. Why should I care? It's a personal lesson I learned from my gentle but angry father over something I did as a young child. He grew up on a farm, where it was common in those times to put unwanted kittens in a burlap bag and drown them in a creek. He found the practice repugnant. Maybe he was made to do it, watch it, or had a schoolmate who was, I don't know. Kittens are of a much higher order than bugs. They also used to throw unwanted dogs in the Hudson River in some manner where they couldn't swim away to safety. Dogs are of a much higher order than bugs. But we know how people who would do that now would be handled. In my case it was earthworms I killed for no reason. I never forgot that angry tongue lashing, the guilt I then felt, and never did it again for no reason, accidentally I do digging. Even now it is common for some people to dump unwanted animals in cities or in rural areas and get away with it, not that most of you aren't aware of some of this.

Rabid animals we should kill or have killed, better we are sure that's what it is but I wouldn't want to wait until I was attacked either, and don't have the means to kill them now anyway. These are just my opinions; I'm not asking people to agree with me nor do I mean to judge or come across as lecturing anyone, just sharing some thoughts.

The traps I don't know how long it takes for them to die, suspect quite awhile and at this point I've no love lost for those destructive creatures, but if I must kill, I would rather it be swift. I will use the traps if I feel I must but wish it were more swift than I suspect it to be. It's eco-friendly though. Except the plastic :-) I wish there was something in the bags that made it faster and could be disposed of safely without harming anything else.

Milky spore may be different in my zone compared to yours, but have a better chance of applying it in the spring and several springs thereafter than expecting it to survive our winters. I'm willing to give it a try, even though it may be expensive, and only partly effective, can't be that bad for my small yard, 20# bag is sufficient with a little left over. I did the math.

Aliska, it's heartening to see your reverence for life.

I have a tendency toward Buddhism and thus feel some sorrow when killing these creatures. They didn't ask to be born as pests, but they've moved to near the top of the list and can't be ignored if one's garden (and turf) are to survive.

I've tried squishing them for a sudden death (Buddha would still cringe) but found so many escaping that I felt going back to the soapy water procedure was necessary.

As this "plague" progressively extends across the US, maybe there will be an increased incentive to find an effective repellent. We don't care if the go to non-critical places, do we? But our roses......

dlcooper, basically the religion I embrace has historically shown little respect for the rest of the creatures we share the planet with and without getting into it, some of it is actually distasteful, have a great respect for Buddhists. I think it is life experiences that make me sensitive to some things, and my religion, such as it is, has little to do with that part of me.

I wondered if there is something about the beetles that could be beneficial? Like an answer to a scientific riddle - too simplistic thinking there.

Agreed, I so hope we find a better repellent (or eradicator) that doesn't harm especially bees. Japan can be responsible for saving them from extinction :-). My attitude has evolved since my earlier posts on this thread, and I didn't want to go through that again here. But as far as repelling them, as much as I love beautiful roses which enrich so many lives, we wouldn't want to divert them to food crops.

I'd just like to see them eradicated or numbers brought way under control in the US & other places where they aren't native w/o destroying something beneficial in the process.

Come to think of it, and I'm no expert, but I don't think the "book" mentions roses, just rose of sharon, could be wrong. It doesn't mention tomatoes either, wonder why that is lol?

I thought I got rid of the grubs by using Merit this May. WRONG! I have lots of beetles this year. They are even eating the leaves. I mixed up some insecticides, orthene,sevin50wp, and malathion. That mixture is taking care of the beetles, and I am spraying all my buds so thrips and beetles won't get to them.
I do have an idea to eliminate them, use a badmitton raquet and swat them into the next county!!!!!

Hello Dan - I live in Tremont in Tazewell Co. and they are awful! There was an article in the Pekin Times yesterday about the JBs defoliating apple trees on Townline Rd. by I-155 about 5 miles from me. The lady said she made a spray with lemon, vinegar, and dish soap and sprayed and it chased the JBs away in a couple of days.

Here's the link to the article in case you're interested:
http://www.pekintimes.com/articles/2008/07/26/lifestyles/lifestyles1.txt

Thanks for the link, terrijean, emailed you privately.

In the meantime do you think some of us could brainstorm and try that mixture? What proportions would be safe? I'm not real confident it would work, that maybe they had gorged enough there and sought a more plentiful food source elsewhere. Still usually they dwindle in numbers and wouldn't leave en masse like that, could be coincidence, just don't know at this point if it was due to what she sprayed.

Since I have a one-gallon sprayer, I was thinking of trying 1/2 cup of each, using RealLemon, white vinegar and Ivory Liquid and fill the sprayer up with water and mix well, probably not this year. I'd have to refill that sprayer a lot to spray all the stuff they have been on.

Also the article did not jive with a link anntn6b TN posted about the origin of the beetles in the US. That article said the JB's came in a shipment in the soil of the roots of iris or some plant and got loose in NJ was it, don't know which thread that link was on but read the article in its entirety? Anyway it had nothing to do with what the article said, that they were deliberately imported to control mites. Maybe the person quoted had them confused with those orange ladybugs that became such a nuisance in the fall. I see the red ones are back in my yard in small numbers, had not seen any in years.

Finally, the article mentioned Sevin. I will read more on that, but but thought the residual effects of that were harmful to bees because of an ingredient in it. Since it said not to spray flowers, unless it acts as a repellant, I don't see how that would work very well for blooming roses. I'm trying not to use anything with the ingredient imidacloprin in many Bayer products because I saw with my own eyes the residual effects kill/disable/disorient bees even at around the 48-hour mark and after a fairly heavy rain (see pesticides and bees thread on the OGR forum now on p2).

Wow, she REALLY had them bad, sounds almost as bad or worse than that old Alfred Hitchcock movie, "The Birds" the way they were swarming so she couldn't even go outside. So they must be really bad where you are. I'm not too far from you, maybe 100 mi or so in E. IA, and I'm still counting about 20 or so a day. I'd cut off the rest of my blooms as so few are going now but fear they would still just attack something else, and they are easier to find and pick out of rose blooms.

Shaking my bushes would not work. Most are too big, most would land on the ground and not bucket, even a 5-gal one, and some are deep in blooms and cling stubbornly or would fly away.

I'm a very newbie rose gardener (got my 1st rose bush this past spring). Having had problems w/ JB's in the past years I was concerned.

I took a chance on a product called Safer 3-in-1 spray this year. I started using it when, strangely enough, the JB's went after my hibiscus before anything else.

And so far, so good. Haven't had any JB damage to my rose bushes. The JB's haven't done any more damage to my other perennials (including the hibisicus) as well.

Its really worked well for me. Knock on wood, no aphids. No thrips. And very minimal blackspot as well.

Therefore I've become quite the fan of the product (Safer 3-in-1). Especially considering that its touted as an all natural product.