If the stems are smooth, I'd say 'Cardinal de Richelieu' is a strong contender.

:-)

~Christopher

Here is a link that might be useful: 'Cardinal de Richelieu' at HelpMeFind

Hiya Christopher. As soon as i read your suggestion i ran outside tp give the blooms a sniff. Theres no smell off them. However, the blooms do look very similar to Cardinal de Richelieu. Here's a pic of the stem...

Is your plant as free from prickles as the photos make it appear? Richelieu has small, sharp ones. Does your rose repeat its flowering? Richelieu CAN give a very small second flush under ideal conditions, but it isn't guaranteed to. If your rose repeats its flowering as you expect modern roses to, it is definitely not Richelieu. What other Old Garden Rose it may be, I have no idea. The difference in appearance between your Irish climate and my Southern California climate can often make it impossible to identify even common roses. Kim

Hiya Kim,

The tiny prickles on the stem feel like my partners five o'clock shadow. Uncomfortable but they won't hurt you. I only purchased this rose last autumn and this is the first flush of blooms. There don't seem to be anymore blooms on the horizon. I may have sabotaged this rose because I tied every cane as close to horizontal as possible anticipating a lovely climbing rose.

I'm an American girl and grew a few of the same varieties I currently have ( here in Ireland) as I did back home. The biggest difference I notice is the size of the bush (shorter here than back home) and the cool irish climate changed the color of the blooms. I thought I'd chance my arm though because its been a very hot/sunny summer here ( haven't seen consistent 80-90 degree weather here since 2005 -I'm attempting to grow corn this summer:-)

M

Hi M! Your description of the prickles sounds pretty good and one many can identify with. Thanks! Actually, training the plant as you have may actually result in MORE flowers. Apical dominance demands flowers be produced where sap pressure is highest, which is why untrained climbers primarily flower at the tops of very long "stems". Evening out the pressure ALONG the cane produces flowering laterals along the length of cane, producing many more flowers. You may not be able to determine repeat flowering until nearly autumn. "Remontant" OGRs often don't flower repeatedly, but generate a second (sometimes a third) flush of blooms in late summer or early autumn. If yours does that, I definitely vote against Richelieu. If it doesn't, it very well could be him. The tones to which the fading flowers age is another decent identification clue. Richelieu is the best I've ever encountered for aging to the heart stopping grey-lavenders and nearly 'blue' tones. Some others get close, but he's the absolute best for them in my experience. If you also like those shades, see if you can find Blue for You there. I think it will stop you dead in your tracks! Kim

Here is a link that might be useful: Blue for You

Thanks Kim,

I've often wondered about the horizontal tying of canes. I've always tied my Austin's (even the smaller ones) that way to combat the upright growth and discovered straight away that I got more blooms. I didn't know why it worked.
If I understand properly this will work for all roses regardless of their classification?

I do have Blue for You. I got it this spring and have a crush on it already. I don't typically go for the "Blue" roses. My only other is Rhapsody in Blue which purchased for its gorgeous scent.

. If summer song wasn't so thorny I'd leave my partner and SS and I could make little blooms of our very own. I'm mad for peach, apricot, copper coloured roses...which is what I believed I purchased before the deep purple blooms appeared.

I'm fairly certain that it isn't our dear friend the Cardinal because there is absolutely no scent off the blooms at all. Also I'd be shocked if the garden centre where I purchased this mystery rose knows what a gallica rose is. I love the shop however because they mark all thier roses down to â¬2.66 - â¬5.00 every autumn. I never pay more than â¬5 ($6.53) For a standard/tree rose. I woman can't complain at those prices.

M

You're welcome, M! Yes, training as a climber will work on just about any rose, and many other plant types, too. The difficult part is when working with extremely stiff caned types. Here, there is NO way to train Polka that way. The canes are like rebar and break at the slightest bend. But, the botanical principal is the same no matter what kind of plant you're considering.

How marvelous you have both Blue for You and Rhapsody in Blue! They ARE the "bluest" of the modern mauve roses and both have remarkable scents. Peach, apricot and copper colors are beautiful with rich mauves like these. There is an older British HT called Julia's Rose. It was a cross of lavender and tawny gold HTs, resulting in "copper and parchment", basically the color of a brown paper shopping bag. It can be glorious in autumn arrangements.

Your rose COULD be the Cardinal. Scent is extremely fleeting, particularly in heat. Cut one just opening and allow it to fully open indoors. Smelling it in the warm, moist, still indoor air should permit you to discern any scent it may create. It is very common for even highly scented roses not to express scent in hot conditions. Your garden center doesn't have to know what a Gallica is. The company producing the roses obviously does or you wouldn't have it. Mislabeling is a very easy mistake to occur. All it takes is inattention or carelessness. "Lack of familiarity" doesn't hurt, either. Kim

Lady Kim,

My Rhapsody in Blue...

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I do love the scent. I like to put it near the front door.

I'm going to ring the garden centre and demand to know what purple varieties they sold last year. I'll let you know what they say and we can whittle down the mystery.

M

That's gorgeous, M! I would grow Rhapsody in Blue here, except, it wants to be a climber in the heat; it's susceptible to black spot and until it gets well established, it stops flowering when it gets hot. Though not as awful as where many here are, it gets HOT here and remains so for far too long to have a thorny, green mountain of a plant depriving me of flowers. Kim