Andrea, first, compare the climate and weather where you remember smelling those roses to that where you are now. If it is windier, colder, significantly hotter, drier or constantly wetter where you are now, few, if any, scents are going to carry strongly on the air. What you smelled on still, moist, warm air early in an early summer morning won't be what is possible to smell on a triple digit day with single digit humidity and a 15 mph breeze. The oils and alcohols responsible for the creation of scent require specific ranges of temperatures, humidity levels and still air to "waft" across a garden.

Second, remember that most of us lose components and sensitivity levels of taste and smell as we "mature". What smelled amazing to you at age ten, might well not smell much now, as I know you are no longer ten! Memory also tends to become romanticized, "enhancing" how wonderful something was at a time when we were taken care of and had few, if any, real responsibilities. We also associate them with people who made us feel special, enhancing them further.

How are your allergies now, compared to when you remember smelling the roses? Histamine responses can knock out a tremendous level of your sense of smell and taste. As can medications you may now take, you didn't as a child.

I think you may be surprised if you cut many of the roses in your garden in bud, as they begin to unfurl, and open them indoors in warm, still, moister air. Smelling a Double Delight, or any other obscenely scented bloom in the wrong conditions outdoors, then comparing the same bloom indoors in more perfect conditions, can be amazingly enlightening. Kim

The weather where I live now (in summer) is not too much different than where I lived as a child. It's a little less humid here. But the summer temps and wind are about the same.

I was at Regan Nursery about a month ago and THAT SMELL was there!! I actually tried to find it, but couldn't. Regan has about a billion rose bushes, I just didn't have time that day to try to 'sniff' it down.

In any case, is there a particular adjective for that old smell? What does the term damask mean?

andrea

If the reduced humidity is lower than the threshold necessary for "wafting", that could be it. Regan's probably has a higher humidity due to all the plants and frequent watering. That day may have had a higher humidity percentage, too, or the wind wasn't quite as high. Plus, you might also have been more focused, making it easier to notice and hone in on what you sought.

Damask used about scent is a specific fragrance. I can't liken it to any other scent, or they would also be Damask. Its like that line in The Matrix..."the computer didn't know what chicken tasted like, so it made everything taste like it." If it smelled like something else, it wouldn't be Damask.

Do an advanced search on HMF for "Damask" scent. I ran several and it brought up many results. A few of which are:

A Shropshire Lad
A Whiter Shade of Pale
Heather Austin
Abraham Darby
Ain't She Sweet
Alchymist
Alec's Red
Alexandra Renaissance
England's Rose

Some people say Damask is the 'red rose scent'. Others consider it the "old rose scent". There are often other elements to fragrance so they are mixes; orris-Damask, lemon-Damask, etc. What you might do, if possible, is take your smart phone with you and look up the highly scented roses you encounter to see what their scents are described as. Or, if Regans has a rose list, look up the roses listed at home to see which has what scent. Making a list of roses with particular scents, then visiting the nursery when scents should be expected to be at their best would be the perfect way to educate your nose about what smells like what. Kim

Thanks a bunch Kim. Looks like if I want that smell, I will have to plant some David Austin types. Is that correct?

I already had a portion of my cement patio cut out to accomodate a new rose bed. (Not enough sun in the other parts of my yard.) I may have to do that again if I want more.

Thanks again,

andrea

Not necessarily Andrea. You wanted to know what Damask smelled like. I'd think Regan would have many of the newer and more classic English roses, so I figured sending a few names you may find there might make it easier to smell what you wanted to smell. To zero in on the precise scent, get hold of Regan's list and research what each one smells like. Take a list with you so you can stuff your nose in all the ones which seem like what you want to smell. Compare all the Damask scented types so you can sort out their common scent elements, separating the other elements. That way, you will KNOW what Damask smells like and you may find the scent you're remembering might be one of the other component scents. You'll find many modern roses have Damask scents. Regan MAY have them, also, but I'd think they'd have more of the English roses because that's what many people want.

You could also browse Week's, Star's and Austin's on line catalogs, making notes of which ones they describe as Damask scented. If you want Austin roses, plant Austin roses, but you don't have to grow Austin roses to obtain Damask scent. Kim

Will do. And once again, I thank you madam.

andrea

One more question, , , for the time being.

I can't cut up my patio again, just yet. But, If I could get 'A Shropshire Lad', Could I plant it in a HUGE
Ceramic Planter?

andrea

Frangrances are so important and fun, but words and fragrances are very floating variables. I think you might need something more direct to pin it down. May I suggest a different approach, by smelling a few type of roses to get to know which direction to search for the particular variety.

Hybrid teas like Etoile de Hollande, Papa Meilland and Crimson Glory are sort of in one camp; I might call it hybrid tea type damask. Tea fragrance "hybrid tea style "; Blue Monday, Wiskey Mac, Royal Dane, Tropicana; very fragrant but lighter and fruitier. If someone get what I am trying to describe please suggest an older HT variety with this type fragrance.

Rose de Resht, Comte de Chambord and Rosa Damascena is more genuine Damask fragrance, and very nice.

Maiden's Blush, Rosa alba Maxima, Felicite Pargmentier, classic alba fragrance.

Genuie Tea Roses; Rosa Odorata, Maréchal Niel, Homere,..,people in the south can hopefully suggest popular names in this category. I am way out of my league here, as I have smelled only a few real teas.

Rosa rugosa and many of the hybrids have a noticeable wild rose fragrance.

Whichuraiana climbers; New Dawn, Leontine Gervaise, Albertine,... These climbers often have a note to their fragrance which make them a bit different.

Bourbon roses; Louise Odier, Mme Isaak Pereire, Zéphirine Drouhin. A group of repeatblooming old favorites known for their fragrance.

Some roses like Souvenir de la Malmaison stands a bit out I think. It might be listed as a bourbon, but is a bit different still. Much the same for Gloire de Dijon, whatever the group it is listed in, noisette or tea, it is a bit apart from the others.

There are all kinds of hybrids and varieties, shrubs, climbers, and florist roses. Visit the local rosarium/rosepark and sort out the main rose groups if possible; bourbon, damascena, gallica, alba, and hybrid teas. The climbers in the wichuraiana group and noisette group are worth cheking out too. It will give you a good viewpoint and direction in your search, and it is very fun ;-)

Edit; and yes, roses grow well for years in containers, even the larger Austins. It only depends upon the size. It depens a bit on when you were a child to, if it was pre 1980's I doubt the rose you remember were an Austin.

This post was edited by taoseeker on Thu, Jul 18, 13 at 19:43

The best damask in my yard is Autumn Damask or Quatre Saisons. That is the strongest and most pure damask rose I grow. I also like the citrus-damask blends like Chrysler Imperial, Tiffany, Memorial Day, Pink Peace and Perfume Delight. Pope John Paul II has a fruit/Damask that is outstanding. Radox Bouquet has a strong sweet scent that is dependable in hot weather. La Reine is a good sweet scent if you want old fashioned flowers.

I don't live where rose scent wafts, but one time the weather was with us and I got to experience it. Wow!

My mother has always grown heirloom-type plants almost exclusively. She has, even now, huge Damask roses that have the most potent fragrance I can imagine. They always remind me of rose-scented soap. That's the only way I can describe it. I've never found anything that fragrant, but I appreciate the beauty of other varieties and the repeat-blooming.

Thanks all for your input. Taoseeker, the roses I remember were from the 50s....Just a little before the 80s.

I am already planning my next rose and looking for a
container that will be large enough to hold it.

Thanks again,

andrea

(Pssssttt while most of the people I know named Kim are gals, a few like my cousin and Mr Roseseek are guys......)

I've got about ten roses specially planted for their strongly fragrant flowers, but the only one that smells like a real rose to me, rather than spicy, citrusy or honey-like, is Mr Lincoln. It was probably the first fragrant rose I ever smelt.

Oops. Sorry Mr. Roseseek.

Thank you Kippy-the-Hippy,

red faced andrea

Thanks Kippy. Notice I didn't embarrass you in the thread, Andrea? I did private message you, not to embarrass you, but to permit you to know so you wouldn't feel embarrassed. No worries. It's an easy misconception. Kim

My mom only grew a couple of roses in her 1950's garden & called them "modern roses". Everyone who grew even one rose seemed to have Peace, and so did she. I remember it as a big bush with pretty flowers whose fragrance was only inhaled with a nose buried in the petals. Many years later, unknowing of any connection, my son planted only one rose in his garden & it is Peace also. Visiting his garden I feel the bridge that rose gives between my childhood & the present.

The second rose mom grew was a deep velvety red with a perfume that carried. Thinking back now, that rose was planted in a corner where a short breezeway connected the kitchen & garage doors along the west-facing kitchen wall. No doubt the sun & moisture there captured the scent & concentrated it, rather like a walled garden will do. Couldn't walk by that rose in an afternoon without being enveloped in its perfume.

Years later when I became interested in growing roses, I asked Mamma the name of that red rose but she couldn't remember. Browsing potted roses in a garden center, I bent to smell a red rose & recognized it on the inhale as the one mom grew. Crimson Glory, as taoseeker mentioned. Planted it in the garden but that particular plant never prospered. Know now it was poorly grafted & grown before it came to me. Thanks for the reminder & the memories! I'll find it again own-root & give that memory another chance to grow.

You might start your search with highly fragrant roses of the 40's & 50's & literally sniff them down from that list. Sounds like a delightful endeavor!

Crimson Glory was another that my mother had!! Thanks. Haven't seen that one in years. Maybe that's the wonderfully pungent rose that I remember. I will find it and plant it.

p.s. It's nice to know that someone on this forum remembers the fifties..

andrea

In the 50's hybrid teas reigned supreme, valued for the large flower and high pointed center of the petal formation. The half open bud as it unfolds is still the picture of the ideal rose. Lots of these old favorites are still for sale every year. Might be the best place to start searching ;-)

Floribundas were very popular too, but they usually aren't very fragrant (there are a few exceptions). In those days some of the Pernetiana roses were still common, understandebly since they are the origin of the yellow and orange colours in modern roses. Some of them are very fragrant too. Today these are grouped with the hybrid teas, and some are still available.

Best of luck ;-)

This post was edited by taoseeker on Fri, Jul 26, 13 at 6:32