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Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

Posted by Hrose 6 A (My Page) on
Sun, Jul 20, 14 at 17:08

Living in zone 6 I pick hardy shrub rose over HT rose anytime even if I lived in a warmer zone where HTs don't get winter die back I would still pick shrub rose

Shrub Rose
 photo rosechamplain_zps0961278d.jpg


the way most HTs roses look in Zone 6

newbies do not fall for Hybrid teas even after 100 yrs it will only be 1 or 2 feet tall in zone 6 with maybe 5 or 10 blooms you are much better off investing your money into a carefree shrub rose no spraying no black spot no slaving

This post was edited by Hrose on Sun, Jul 20, 14 at 17:13


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Sun, Jul 20, 14 at 20:20

I'm becoming a shrub rose person myself...lol
But will grow a couple HT's in pots...


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

What are your recommendations for a good shrub rose?


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

  • Posted by seil z6b MI (My Page) on
    Sun, Jul 20, 14 at 20:39

To each their own. You can't really make blanket statements like that. I have many shrubs roses that do not ever get to be big bushy plants covered in blooms like your picture. As a matter of fact my floribundas and poyanthas do a better job of that then most of my shrub roses. And personally I think that photo of your HT looks fabulous! Big, bushy, healthy and blooming it's head off!

Some of my shrubs do have some lovely blooms, Quietness comes immediately to mind, but most of them are pretty ho hum in size and form for me. Nothing like the enormous, gorgeously shaped hybrid teas I have.

I'm sorry to hear your HTs never get very big. I have many that reach 5 or 6 feet each season. I have found that you really don't HAVE to prune them all down each spring like "they" say. I never just routinely prune my HTs down to "12 to 18 inches" in the spring as recommended in a lot of pruning guides. I only prune down to where there was winter kill and my roses seem to be very happy with that. Of course there are exceptions, like this past winter, where they did have to be pruned right down. But even so they're bouncing back wonderfully and a couple of previous one cane wonders have even seemed to be having new life they never had before.


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

jim 1961 I have four HTs myself two in the ground and two in planters The majority of my roses are winter hardy shrub roses made in Canada for Canadian weather

boncrow 66 I planted Morden blush and the one in the picture you see is Champlain rose very popular winter hardy to zone 2 has won many awards I can tell you from experience its vigorous grower

if you looking for hardy shrub roses search for Morden Parkland and Explorer series

"The Parkland series is a set of rose varieties specially developed to survive the Canadian winters by Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada (AAFC) at Morden Research Station in Manitoba. They are exceptional for their hardiness in Canada. They require minimal care and are environmentally friendly, needing minimal sprays. They are hardy down to -35 C with only snow as protection, are disease resistant, flower repeatedly throughout the summer, require only minimal pruning and come in a variety of colours and sizes. See also their Explorer Series."

seil I;ve planted about 12 shrub roses this spring and all are growing vigorously maybe you didn't amend your soil before planting or something's wrong with your rose any plant will grow vigorously under the right conditions my Morden blush rose bush is in partial shade and already 2 times bigger then when I bought it and loaded with blooms again

The one and only thing HTs have over shrub roses is their bloom form which is supported by a 2 to 3 ft cane with many leaves long time in the making

"enormous, gorgeously shaped hybrid teas I have" hard to believe if your are living in zone 6B

This post was edited by Hrose on Sun, Jul 20, 14 at 22:12


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

Hrose - I do agree, your shrub rose is very lovely. I think, we as rose growers don't necessarily all want the same thing when it comes to our roses. Personally, I grow hybrid teas for the individual beauty of the blooms and most of the bushes they are growing on are healthy. While it is true that HT's aren't all loaded with blooms, some of them are fairly floriferous with two dozen or more blooms per flush, that's not unusual at all for my HT's. While I am most familiar with HT's and floribundas I am especially becoming interested in some of the old garden roses and have begun growing a few, and am very pleased so far.

This post was edited by Sara-Ann on Sun, Jul 20, 14 at 22:54


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

I actually have a mix of different roses and like my HT's, floribundas and Austin's roses. I like them all for their differences. I guess it's a matter if personal taste. I agree with Seil that both pics of your roses are nice healthy looking plants.


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

yeah it is a matter of personal taste what grows best and what is best suited for your zone in my zone 6B HT roses are stripped half naked due to black spot and completely leafless due to black spot by end of summer they may get 3 even 4 ft tall but come spring time they are dead down to only a few inches above soil level really looks bad in the landscape having nothing there or very little for most of the year

I have two left in the ground and probably will replace them next year with shrub roses The only HTs I will have left is the two in my planters where HTs look good in my zone they just don't get big enough for in ground I want big bushes like you see in the movies

sara ann looks like you need some mulch around your roses otherwise looks good

This post was edited by Hrose on Mon, Jul 21, 14 at 9:25


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

Different strokes for different folks. I grow a little bit of everything in my garden. My Blushing Pink Knock Out is a beautiful garden display but is almost useless as a cut rose. I give cut roses out to all the neighbors and they always head for the HT's. The children go strait for the mini/minifloras. If all I wanted was a flowering shrub, I would be growing a lot of everything but roses.


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

you shoulve gotten the double knock out

most ROSE shrubs make for excellent cut flowers for example my Morden blush bush you can see in the picture would look lovely in a vase anyway I'm not interested at all in cut rose to hand out to neighbors or for myself

This post was edited by Hrose on Mon, Jul 21, 14 at 11:38


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

As I've probably mentioned before, I like a variety of different types of roses for different reasons.

I have around a dozen or so HTs (and they are not blackspotted or leafless)
I have over a dozen Austins
I have around a dozen or so floribundas and other modern shrubs
I have around a dozen or so hybrid musks and other OGRs (Bourbons, polyanthas, hybrid perpetuals, etc.)
I have around a dozen or so mini roses
I have 4 climbing roses

And I love 'em all!

To tell the truth, I never quite understand gardeners who turn so strongly against HTs as they embrace OGRs. If my HTs looked the way they describe their hated HTs, maybe I would be revolted by them also, but my HTs have never looked like that--and I don't do anything special for my HTs. Just water and feed and occasionally spray them (couple times in the spring and a couple times in the fall).

That said, HTs are not my favorites, but I have nothing against them either.

Kate


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Mon, Jul 21, 14 at 12:58

Hrose, I have a own root Mister Lincoln here which I have a love hate relationship with but for whatever reason it hardly gets Blackspot.

Yes this is one of those different strokes for different folks kinda of threads...lol


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

My roses are similar to what Kate described in category, but I only have about a half dozen Austin's. I prefer OGR's and like Hybrid Teas in what I view as an appropriate placement. It is a matter of preference. I think that the rose selected should compliment the setting, which varies.

Horse, if you check out Seil's posts, she has submitted beautiful images of her very healthy roses; inclusive of Hybrid Teas.

Lynn

This post was edited by desertgarden561 on Mon, Jul 21, 14 at 15:32


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

Thank you Hrose. Yes, I do need to have my roses mulched, I'm well aware of that fact.

I think it is great that because we all have varying tastes in what we like or dislike in a rose that there is no shortage of varieties or types of roses to choose from.


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

Location, location, location. A lot of people live in places where growing HTs is going to be difficult, and they should be encouraged to try roses that they are going to be more successful with.

Desertgarden, the analogy is more like

I can grow roses and many other things without any supplemental watering.
My reality is the only *real* reality.
Therefore, you should be able to grow anything you want without watering.

Saying that disease pressure does not vary is just as divorced from reality.


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

  • Posted by seil z6b MI (My Page) on
    Mon, Jul 21, 14 at 16:55

I just don't like people to make blanket statements like this as if they are facts. You can grow most any rose anyplace. You just have to determine what level of investment you are willing to give to your roses. I try to encourage people to grow what ever roses they like to the best of their abilities. I don't feel I have the right to discourage them from growing something THEY love because I don't care for it. If you want to state the reasons why YOU prefer one rose over another, fine. But I don't think you should tell other people that they should only grow those as well. And making statements that HTs only do this and shrubs always do that is not accurate. As mad said, location plays a HUGE role in how any rose preforms. HTs can and do get very large for me and bloom quite well. Some shrubs are pipsqueak small here and stingy. It just depends on the individual rose and the place it's growing.


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

Gardening and the ideal plant is so dependent on personal taste. For one person a rose that is full of brand new leaves and is two feet tall is perfect and another may call that a weak plant because it is not four feet tall full of seasons worth of leaves. Some want the v shaped ht form with few leaves and long stems while another is looking for a green mass with roses hung on it to each their own

On the other hand a title like "shrub rose" is more a marketing term to describe a shape. It is better to see what type of rose it is when deciding it if is appropriate for your area

But I am always sad when some one is disappointed they planted an apple tree based on recommendations and did not get a single good orange....


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

"Location, location, location. A lot of people live in places where growing HTs is going to be difficult, and they should be encouraged to try roses that they are going to be more successful with. "

this is what I'm trying to do encouraged people to grow roses that are best suited for their zone so they don't end up disappointed

seil my two HTs in the ground that get full sun are "pipsqueak small and stingy"

my shrub roses are lush with vigorous growth I'm not just saying this I can prove it with pictures if you want and I think most people would agree that shrub roses dwarf HT roses especially in zones where HT roses suffer die back year after year

This post was edited by Hrose on Mon, Jul 21, 14 at 17:44


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

  • Posted by seil z6b MI (My Page) on
    Mon, Jul 21, 14 at 18:10

Good for you! You picked the ones you liked and you got lucky and they worked for you. That isn't to say they would for me or anybody else.


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

Mad Gallica,

Good analogy.

I wish it were true!!
.

We get 4.5" or less of rainfall annually and water everything. Few Cacti and succulents can survive without supplemental watering.


Lynn

This post was edited by desertgarden561 on Mon, Jul 21, 14 at 19:05


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

seil you need to calm down I think the summer heat is getting to you

you need to accept the facts that a lot more people will be successful growing winter hardy disease resistant ORIGINAL shrub roses rather then HTs especially in zone 6B all the way to zone 2

you like your HTs you work hard for their blooms that's fine and dandy good for you

All I'm trying to do it encouraged people to grow roses that are best suited for their zone so they don't end up disappointed like myself when I was new to gardening and I planted HTs after winter the stems were all black and brown

And no I didn't just get lucky I planted roses that are disease resistant and suitable for my zone

This post was edited by Hrose on Mon, Jul 21, 14 at 19:37


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

Hrose....I'm going the same direction as you. Cutting way back on the HT's in favor of floribundas (especially the ADR rated ones), modern shrub roses (especially the Easy Elegance series & the Dr. Bucks), a few select OGR's & an assortment of the hardy shrub rose (such as the Ag Canada roses). I'm definitely looking for better disease resistance & better winter bounce back, so far the Easy Elegance & ADR floribundas have been really impressing me. Have you seen the book "EVERYDAY ROSES" by Paul Zimmerman? This book really addresses a lot of the things you are looking at in your rose growing.


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

Seil does not need to calm down. She is perfectly fine and happy growing her roses, which she has done for some time and quite successfully.

And she takes the most beautiful photos of her roses!

Kate


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

wirosarian finally somebody that can relate to me Thanks I will check out the book someday my four HTs I have left already have black spot my shrubs I planted this spring Morden blush and Champlain no sign of black spot good luck with your roses...these people and their high maintenance HTs you gotta be carefull what you say they get moody quick..

This post was edited by Hrose on Mon, Jul 21, 14 at 22:21


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

"All zone whatever. You can't grow certain roses at your house because I can't grow or don't want to be bothered with certain roses at my house." Think about what I just said.


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

Ken if that's how you interpreted what i'm saying then your way wrong buddy nice try tho

Go ahead and grow whatever you want at your house heck you can even plant some tropical plants in zone 6B I don't care all i'm trying to do is encourage people to grow carefree roses that are best suited for their zone how many times do I gotta say it if you want to plant HTs that will require high maintenance in your zone be my guest

the majority of people couldn't care less about spraying or even watering

This post was edited by Hrose on Tue, Jul 22, 14 at 11:23


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

Hrose - We love what you said - just NOT the way you said it. Your posts makes you sound a little judgmental, and that's what Seil, Ken and I are reacting too. I'm sure this is just a miscommunication of intention.
Carol :)


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wow....this is like a thread on a dog grooming platform about using dish soap or plucking ear hair.....sigh......


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

  • Posted by saldut 9-10 st pete, fl (My Page) on
    Tue, Jul 22, 14 at 14:41

I grow all kinds of everything just as long as it doesn't die, and don't spray... I have always wondered how a rose is named 'shrub',.... I have HT's, OGR's, Chinas, Noisettes, Old Teas, Mini's, Floribundas, Knock-outs...some look 'shrubby', but are not called that whilst some 'shrub' roses look like the other named types... what 'lineage' does a shrub-rose have? How is 'shrub' different from the other named-type roses? Can a Noisette be a 'shrub'? how abt. a China? When I look at a rose catalog and it lists 'shrub', what am I looking at? what is it's ancestry? , is it a HT , or a Drift, or a KO? Did I get lost in this query? or do I make any sense? LOL, sally


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Definition of shrub rose

"Shrub describes the shape or habit of the full grown plant. In contrast to hybrid tea and grandiflora roses which tend to make long canes, not to branch very much, and not to branch out very widely, shrub roses tend to branch much and are frequently as wide as or wider than they are tall.

Modern Shrub is an official ARS class for shrub-like roses that do not fit into other classes.

Thus, hybrid rugosas, hybrid musks, and modern shrub roses can all be examples of shrub roses. In fact, many good floribundas might be described as shrubs as well.
" "A class for all those roses which don't fit into any other class.

Types of roses subclassed as shrub roses are the hybrid musks, hybrid rugosas, and modern hybrids of species roses.

The "unclassifiable" shrub class includes diverse habits, sizes, and flower forms. Shrub roses can be upright bushes, loose, mounding shrubs and can often be trained as climbers.

Some of the more modern shrub roses include Kordesii shrubs, groundcover Meidiland, the Knockout series and English roses. They are particularly useful mixed with herbaceous plants in boarders and mixed beds."

http://d avesg arden.com/guides/terms/go/3458/


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

Hrose-
What is the name of your pretty red shrub rose in the picture you included in your first posting?
MM


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

Missmary its a Champlain Hardy Shrub Rose

more info

pictures link http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=1062&tab=36

"Bred in Canada. Won the Classic Shrub Rose award four times from 1999-2001, and the Shrub award from the Patrick Henry Rose Society in 2001."

http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.1062&tab=1

This tough shrub performs well across the country, surviving hot and cold temperatures with ease. Introduced as one of the Explorer Series of roses out of Canada, it holds its neat, compact habit and floriferousness in all climates, a most uncommon feat amoung shrub roses. Loads of true red, semi-double to double blooms are borne in clusters, produced in everblooming array from Spring to Fall. Autumn finds the blooms accompanied by round orange hips. Abundant, lustrous, dark green foliage has topnotch resistance to insects and disease. A great choice for both specimen and mass planting. Grown own root. Flower Size: 2-1/2 - 3". Fragrance: Slight. Hybridizer: Svedja, 1982.


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  • Posted by subk3 7a/MidTn (My Page) on
    Tue, Jul 22, 14 at 17:10

I've been a perennial gardener for over 20 years only adding roses into the mix for the last few. And from my perspective ALL rose plants are shrubs.

It's about the right plant for the right place that meets meets the goals of the gardener and not classifications.


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

I think the point that is being missed in all this back and forth is that not everybody agrees that in Zone 6, HTs are more work and shrubs are supposedly more carefree.

NOT IN MY ZONE 6. They are both about the same amount of work and need about the same kinds of care.

Unless what is being recommended is a garden full of nothing but Knock Outs.

No thanks, not my style.

Kate


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so why don't you post a few pictures Kate lets see your style let us see what you got


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Tue, Jul 22, 14 at 22:39

I just like any rose that is winter cane hardy, blooms decent, and has great Blackspot resistance because we do not spray.
My wife has MS and is starting to lose sight in her right eye so her MS is starting to progress.
So only the best roses will stay here so she can enjoy them while she still has some eye-sight left....
I do not know what the future brings so I'm leaning more toward the more trouble free roses for now...

I have had some so called VERY BS disease resistant non-hybrid tea roses fail here too...

But yet our Mister Lincoln plugs on without getting much BS at all... So go figure...lol

And if a person is willing to spray you can grow whatever roses you want...


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

Hrose--I'd be happy to show off my gardens.

Here is one of the two places where I grow my hybrid teas--along the Perfumed Path. (A couple of the roses are not in bloom there yet.)



Here is the other place I mainly grow hybrid teas (to hide my neighbor's ugly garage), but there are two hyrbrid perpetuals in there also (Mrs. John Laing--lighter pink).
 photo driveway5-24-11.jpg


Two hybrid teas--Oklahoma (red) and Valencia (buff/gold/apricot)--recently transplanted.




Two Kordes floribundas--Eutin (red) and Pomponell (pink)



Modern shrub--Clement's Braveheart (red); in background right side, Austin shrub Molineux (yellow/apricot/gold).
Braveheart--view south photo braveheartview_zpsb703ba43.jpg


Hybrid musk Buff Beauty in foreground; grandiflora Earth Song (pink) in background.
Buff Beauty (hybrid musk)--spring '12 photo bb4-25-12.jpg


Here's a couple Austins--my favorite shrub Munstead Wood (dark burgundy purple) and Queen of Sweden (light pink)

Queen of Sweden (David Austin roses) 2012 photo queen9april2012.jpg


One of my seven Sweet Dianas (mini)
 photo sweetdiana11-11.jpg


Bourbon rose Mystic Beauty
 photo mystbeaut5-13-11.jpg


Mother's Day (polyantha)
Mother's Day mini rose (polyantha) 2012 photo mothersday4-26-12.jpg


Wish I could show you a picture of my Boule de Neige (bourbon/noisette) but at the last moment, Horton notified me that they could not send it. That's my last open space in my yard, so I'm reserving it for next year in hopes that I can get a Boule de Neige then.

I hope you enjoyed the quick tour of parts of my gardens. I think they are probably typical of many gardens in that a variety of different types of roses are grown. And if I had more space and energy, I'd probably go on adding more types to my gardens.

I'd love to see pics of your rose gardens also, Hrose.

Kate

This post was edited by dublinbay on Sat, Jul 26, 14 at 1:21


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

Enchanting!

I have a question, but so as to not hijack this thread I'm going to ask it in a new thread.


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

"Enchanting!" lol made me laugh

Kate most my roses this year are new as I shovel pruned almost all my HTs and planted shrubs

 photo IMG_1299_zps1713a708.jpg

 photo IMG_1300_zps3e80e9aa.jpg

henry kelsey climbing rose very hardy
 photo IMG_1302_zpsa17346d2.jpg

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 photo IMG_0948_zpsfc0bddbf.jpg

 photo IMG_1303_zps7ce47916.jpg

 photo IMG_1304_zps60dc65c0.jpg

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 photo IMG_1143_zps91382b85.jpg

so what do you think Kate?

This post was edited by Hrose on Wed, Jul 23, 14 at 11:22


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"so why don't you post a few pictures Kate lets see your style let us see what you got."
Oh my, Mistah hrose, ya'll do have a way with words. Ah'm all a-blush just readin' your suggestive request. Well, now that Miz Kate gone and displayed her glorious wares, 'spect ya'll be return in' the favor?
Lookin' forward,
Miz marti
P.s. That pic is how come I gotta have me some HTs
Lord! I do feel rich when I bring these inside.


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

Hrose, I love your "new" gardens. It will be so exciting to see them grow and fill out. I predict a gorgeous future garden.

And I love your deck and the whimsy of a giant sunflower towering over your new roses.

I think we both just proved our points. Some people prefer one type of rose garden, and others prefer other types of rose gardens--and they are all beautiful!

I just have to add, however, that about 5 years ago, I had very few HTs in my garden (2 Double Delights is all) because I had been so busy exploring other rose options for a number of years there. Then one day, I looked around and realized I MISSED THE HTs. That is why I created the Perfumed Path consisting of fragrant disease-resistant HTs. The second area where I grow HTs came about shortly thereafter when I realized the neighbor was never going to get around to fixing up his dilapidated garage. Since there is only limited space between the property line and my driveway, I had to plant "skinny" roses--hence the 2 hybrid perpetuals and the 7 vertical HTs in a long straight row (the only straight row in my entire yard; I take that back--have a short floribunda hedge out in front of the house).

I'm glad I added HTs back into my designs, but my Austins and hybrid musks are my first loves.

Kate


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

A quick observation from my own garden

Even though I am not spraying, no time or desire for that, I recognize that the first months worth of growing in my garden is really not representative for nursery bought plants that were treated by the grower and seller. They have to sell lots of happy healthy looking plants and in many cases also have gov ag programs to comply with. This means my no spray roses have probably had a lot of spray and systemics. The real test is how they look a year or two down the road.

For someone like HRose buying own root plants might be better in the long term. Yes it may require time and cold protection while they are babies. But then when the weather is bad and you have to cut them low you will get the same rose back.

Also HMF has the parent info when possible. It helps when you are buying a "shrub" rose that came from generations of HT


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

I agree with HRose, I am in zone 6a. HT doesn't do well for me here. I have close to 500 roses, half of them are landscaping roses for their beautiful colors, others are DAs, old garden roses, climbers & ramblers. I have a lot of knockouts, they give me a lot of free time for riding in the good weather. :-) I am a scooter rider, love my Vespas and Hondas. Gardening is not the only thing I do after work. Get a scooter/motorcycle everyone, get out of the garden,have some fun under the sun! :-) Any riders here??


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

I had lovely HTs when we lived in Connecticut. I sprayed fungicide biweekly for about two months in summer. That took about an hour every other week. Yes, the bushes were foliated from top to bottom. SIL in Jersey has very nice HTs. I enjoy teasing her about how large the Peter Mayle bush has become - he's taking over the garden but she doesn't have the heart to prune such an enthusiastic plant. Perhaps HTs need a higher level of culture than HRose was willing to provide to thrive in zone 6. Perhaps HRose chose HTs that aren't especially vigorous.

In Virginia I'm growing teas no-spray and enjoying the opportunity to try another class of rose. In local garden centers, the only roses available are Knock-out variants. I wonder where people are purchasing HTs. The only HTs that I've seen for sale in northern Virginia this year were body bags in Home Depot and Lowe's. If gardeners are purchasing low quality HTs, that may also explain poor results.


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Wed, Jul 23, 14 at 16:53

Great pics Kate!

I think I'm going to explore getting a few more HT's but will grow them in large containers next year.
Firefighters on my list so far...

Shrub type looking roses I'm thinking of adding Earth Song, Country Dancer to see how they do here...


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

Shoot. I guess Roses is not the proper place for silly humor.


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

Kate, your garden is lovely! Enchanting is certainly an appropriate description.

My garden is not old enough for me to have a valid opinion on this subject, I have an assorted mix if roses, about a dozen in ground and the same in containers, I have had a few BS problems with 2 of my HTs, but I have also had similar blackspot problems with another shrub rose nearby, yet my Chrysler Imperial (ht) and About Face (gf) are right up next to the heaviest BS area and are both still spotless, as well as the Lady of Shalott on the other side of the mess, so my results are mixed. I do not spray and if these 2 HTs don't shape up I may eventually replace them, but I am not immediately going to say they aren't worth my time, I will try experimenting with various organic fertilizers and see if anything helps. The experimenting and learning part of gardening is fun for me, so if things don't work out it's ok because that opens up a new space in my fairly small garden for something else. Trying new varieties keeps it interesting.

The thing that makes having my own garden so great is that I can choose to put whatever I want in it, I choose colors, scents and shapes that appeal to me. I personally take the time to research most things before buying them and if necessary I accept the possibility at that time that I may have to do this or that to keep them healthy. Every now and then I throw caution to the wind & buy something purely on impulse and just hope that I don't have any problems with it... I know, it's crazy! The gaul! But whatever ends up happening I am the only person who I have to answer to for my garden, it is purely a display of my own taste, I chose the plants, I chose where they were planted, I pruned them, watered them and fed them, my garden is one thing that is purely mine, imperfections and all & I find that to be friggin awesome.

Jessica


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just for the record I'm not hating on HTs their very nice just not for landscaping in my neck of the woods because of die back during winter

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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

My HTs when I first planted them grew like crazy 5 ft high even

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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Wed, Jul 23, 14 at 22:14

Great pics everyone!


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

the girl of my dreams


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Wed, Jul 23, 14 at 22:44

Hopefully she doesn't get blackspot...lol


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

lol naw she's resistant to BS

This post was edited by Hrose on Thu, Jul 24, 14 at 9:58


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

Well, if I can type with thumb in mouth,...yes, still sulking no one lol'd my posted humor attempt.....I must say how i love the gorgeous pics. Kate, yours always blow me away, and oh, those Mordens! I want one! Jim1961, an lol for you. :). Hrose, I love shrubs, too. Floribundas are shrubs, right?
Here are my two favs: yellow Eureka and Hot Cocoa.


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

You can get a wimpy and disease prone 'shrub' rose as easily as you can get a hardy and disease resistant 'HT' one. People in this discussion are talking about HTs vs shrubs as if they are completely different plant species when really they are all in agreement that healthy and hardy roses are usually a better deal than sickly ones. In fact the main difference that is valid between the shrub and HT 'classes' is their difference in growth pattern. Genetics are all mixed up anyhow. That's my 2 (euro)cents worth.
Nik


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

good content

Here is a link that might be useful: Eid Mubarak Wishes 2014


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

Eid Mubarak to you too abhitom


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

nice looking garden martinca looks good shrub roses are always more eye catchy to me because of the number of blooms

"Well, if I can type with thumb in mouth,...yes, still sulking no one lol'd my posted humor attempt....."

no worries I got a feeling most people here are square and lame

This post was edited by Hrose on Fri, Jul 25, 14 at 13:20


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

Since I didn't mention it above, I thought I'd just add that I don't spray very often in my gardens with the HTs and modern shrubs and older roses--maybe 2-3 times in the spring and once or twice in the autumn. I also don't spray all my roses every time--except for the HTs. and HPs. Some of the other roses never get sprayed or only sometimes get sprayed. Since I only buy disease-resistant roses nowadays, my roses aren't as needy in that respect--not even my HTs. And mid-summer is usually so hot here that even BS goes dormant for awhile.

Kate


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

Hmmm interesting Kate I remember when I sprayed a few times when I was a newbie didn't have much of an affect the rains would wash it all off

this forum needs a reply to a post button like most other forums the owners of this website are a little behind they didn't even have an edit button not long ago

This post was edited by Hrose on Fri, Jul 25, 14 at 13:17


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

sunflower fully opened
 photo IMG_1313_zps1ad9b293.jpg

 photo IMG_1310_zps0b90da62.jpg

reaching for the sky


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

Love that opened sunflower!

Nowadays, a lot of us use Bayer Garden Disease Control for Roses, Flowers, and Shrubs. It doesn't wash off in the rain. It kills any current BS and is systemic, thus acting also as a preventative. A lot of gardeners have found that they do not need to spray quite so often with this product.

And of course picking roses (including HTs) that are very disease-resistant also helps.

Kate


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

" "no worries I got a feeling most people here are square and lame" This post was edited by Hrose on Fri, Jul 25, 14 at 13:20"

I have found most people on this forum to be most helpful and want the best for other people gardening and spend time helping, even if we do not like the answer or have different tastes.


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

SPAM ALERT

SPAM ALERT
Posted by abhitom none (My Page) on Thu, Jul 24, 14 at 6:15
good content
Here is a link that might be useful: Eid Mubarak Wishes 2014

This post was edited by patricia43 on Fri, Jul 25, 14 at 19:06


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

Katy we don't have Bayer for sale here in Canada instead we have a bunch of other stuff that doesn't work


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

I know Bayer Garden Disease Control for Roses, Flowers, and Shrubs is not sold in NY, but can people use it in NY? Got really bad black spots on Morden Sunrise rose trees and some other roses. The weather has been too hot for sulfur spray.


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RE: Shrub Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

I have to agree with the spirit of what Hrose has been trying to convey in this thread.

I greatly value the opportunity to see and enjoy all types of roses, but when I purchased my first rose plant as an ignorant newbie, I had never even heard of blackspot, nor did I realize that many roses were difficult to grow in my zone and required spraying. I carefully read all of the information on the tag and assumed if I planted the rose correctly and watered properly I would soon have as nice a plant as the ones I had grown up observing.

What an unpleasant surprise it was to gradually witness the sickly, inappropriate plant I had bought. Determined to find plants as healthy as the ones I had grown up with, I read as much as I could and haunted garden shops, observing the different kinds.

Imagine my indignation when I finally realized that the majority of roses being sold were made popular by a rather exclusive group of rosarians who would stop at nothing to keep their roses healthy, including poisoning every other creature around, and that this behavior was necessary to keep the majority of roses in commerce healthy in many gardening zones, including my own.
The very people who loved roses the most were making the breeding of unhealthy roses profitable!

All this happened years ago, when I was a young housewife raising two small children, and when the walnut trees I had planted in my back yard were still small, so I had plenty of sun and the right conditions--for the RIGHT roses. When I think of the years and years of disappointments with roses when I could have had vast enjoyment from them if the rose industry had not been promoting so many of the sickly, frustrating, disease-infested ones that have given roses a bad name to so many by this point I feel infuriated. That all happened before the time when most of us had internet access, and most books on roses still extolled the virtues of the hybrid teas to the exclusion of most of the other types. Even a rugosa was a rare acquisition back then.

I realize many if not most of the posters in this Forum take spraying as a matter of course, but a parent with young children or a sickly elderly parent, etc etc does not. It is not a healthy practice for you or the environment, and IMO you need to examine why you are willing to support an industry in such a manner that it is necessary. It is your purchases that shape the direction in which the rose industry will go. If you, who purchase the most roses, are going to acquire ones that MUST be sprayed, of course the industry will be happy to provide them, and then sell more and more others when those die. Meanwhile, people who are not rosarians but just love roses and want to plant a healthy one are going to have to look long and hard for a healthy one.

Even if you insisted on better labeling by the industry it would be helpful. That has gradually improved, but it still is nowhere close to what it should be.

A person can go out and purchase almost any other kind of shrub and gain some gratification from the process, but that is still not as true of roses as it should be. I did finally try a few of the "Hasslefree" roses and some reliable old standards I was at last able to locate, but my children essentially grew up with no idea of what a really good shrub a healthy rose could be.

Luckily I was able to afford the search and also able to replace the miserable sickly rose cheats I tried with other, healthier, plants, but what of those who still love roses but are working at minimum wage and save up to purchase a good plant for a Mother's Day gift or other family event only to in the end be bitterly disappointed?

I expect many of you to say "Caveat emptor", but maybe you will do better thjan that and take the essence of what Hrose has said to heart. The rose industry would be much the better for it.

Yes, I would hate to not see the old roses that really are not suited to our non-English climate disappear from American commerce, but I would like to see more insistence that the new roses being bred, be bred with healthiness as a major goal, marketed in the appropriate zones, and be clearly labeled as to their true needs so that the average person can judge whether a particular rose will meet his or her expectations.


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

"I greatly value the opportunity to see and enjoy all types of roses, but when I purchased my first rose plant as an ignorant newbie, I had never even heard of blackspot, nor did I realize that many roses were difficult to grow in my zone and required spraying. I carefully read all of the information on the tag and assumed if I planted the rose correctly and watered properly I would soon have as nice a plant as the ones I had grown up observing."

this reminds me of myself when I first started

eibren thank you very much for sharing your experience and bringing our attention to this poison fungicide it is another reason why everyone should plant carefree roses

unfortunately most here will stop at nothing to have picture perfect blooms for Gardenweb and pat each other on the back even if it means spraying with bayer fungicide they don't sell Bayer in Canada because its POSION to bugs

This post was edited by Hrose on Sat, Jul 26, 14 at 10:16


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You definitely and greatly over-estimate how much spraying many of us do. Many of us spray on a very minimal and limited and occasional basis. In fact, I don't personally know any of the obsessive types you are describing in such hyperbolic terms.

Kate


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Promulgating a myth. Someone wanting more money for taxes, probably. Kate, ignore it as many of us have had to do. It's all part of a blame game.


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I don't think you know any of these people personally Katy neither do I and dont know how you think you can speak for anyone except for your yourself

anyway I do not want to argue with anyone everyone's got their own opinions all the info is here newbies can research in the future and make decisions for themselves

Patiricia43 What are you talking about?...are you a spammer? your of no help to anyone get out of my thread

This post was edited by Hrose on Sat, Jul 26, 14 at 14:16


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Sorry, HRose, I do not believe you are lacking in tact but that you have an agenda. You have no knowledge of posters' gardening practices.

As someone who has been posting here for 15 years, I do believe I know a bit more about these gardeners' habits and unlike you, I have grown roses of all kinds for decades.

You are here to stir the pot.


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Sat, Jul 26, 14 at 17:28

Saw this today at my neighbors house 1 block from us...
Even though she has a structure over her HT's that has a roof, roses very close to house, and weeds everywhere these HT's roses were blooming and no blackspot on any of the leaves... She does not spray either...

 photo 100_1248_zps9fcc17af.jpg

 photo 100_1247_zps52fa2bc6.jpg


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how many blooms on those HTs? 5? 10? one or two stem on each plant ha...and just because they don't have blackspot does not mean they will not get anyway

here is a shrub rose in my area when it was in bloom had at least 50 blooms uncared for left on its own

This post was edited by Hrose on Sat, Jul 26, 14 at 18:17


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  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Sat, Jul 26, 14 at 18:29

I give those HT's credit for not having BS right now and blooming without any care...

Most people around here do not fertilize, water, or dead head roses either so not as many blooms as their could be for sure...

Yes that is a nice full shrub rose bush. What its name?
Of course it would look even better if it had more than one bloom at the present time...lol
I know its resting...

This post was edited by jim1961 on Sat, Jul 26, 14 at 18:31


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Hrose, a number of us have tried to be patient with you and not rudely put you in your place the way you rudely attack others. However, I'm in my 70s and don't need to put up with an arrogant child posturing and carrying on with no regard for anyone else. This is my last post to you--with one final observation. Everyone agrees with you that there are some wonderful and easy-care shrubs out there--so who are you fighting with and why?

Good-bye.

Kate


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My apologies to all who feel I have been rude especially Kate she's been a big help and inspiration to everyone

Sorry everyone enjoy your gardening and roses HT, Shrub or both

This post was edited by Hrose on Sat, Jul 26, 14 at 19:54


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  • Posted by jim1961 6a Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Sat, Jul 26, 14 at 20:14

Yes you have been a pain in the a** at times to certain people but I'm glad to see you have apologized.

Now for your punishment I'm going to send you a HT and make you grow it! lol


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

Eibren. Your walnut tree, Is it Black walnut tree that is known to inhibit growth of nearby plants? We don't have them here in upstate NY. Do they stop roses?

This post was edited by sam4949 on Tue, Jul 29, 14 at 1:18


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  • Posted by seil z6b MI (My Page) on
    Tue, Jul 29, 14 at 18:23

I think the whole problem here is that we are trying to compare apples to oranges. HT's and Shrub roses are two different classes for a reason. If you are expecting HTs to grow and bloom in the same manner as Shrub roses then you surely will be disappointed. Same is true the other way around. If you are expecting Shrub roses to give you the large beautifully formed blooms of an HT you'll be disappointed too. You can not compare them to each other. That's unfair to both classes. In my experience if you try to even compare one HT against another you come up perplexed. EVERY variety of rose is DIFFERENT. They each have their own habits and no two are alike. You need to just enjoy and appreciate each one for it's own unique characteristics.


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RE: Shurb Rose VS Hybird Tea Rose

I like this thread. It's one of the best so far. It has heart and soul, you can feel people's love and passion about their shurb roses and HTs. It has carried out many wonderful rose photos, it's very educational for gardeners all ages. HRose, you might need to send Kate a bottle of Canadian wine, I am sure she will say hello again. :-)
Cheers


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