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| We have recently re-landscaped our yard and have added an area for roses, including an 8 foot arbor flanked by a picket fence. I would like to plant a red climber on one side of the arbor/fence and a white or pink climber on the other side. My husband asked for a dark red 'classic' fragrant rose for 'his' side; after much reading on these forums, I've narrowed it down to Don Juan, Dublin Bay or climbing Crimson Glory. So my question is: for those of you in SoCal, which do you think would be most successful for a newbie rose gardener in the hills surrounding western Simi Valley? It is not as hot or windy as East Simi, gets fairly cool at night (mid-to-upper 50s) in the summer. Hoping for a good repeat bloomer with minimum powdery mildew or rust. Thank you in advance for any suggestions! |
Follow-Up Postings:
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Of those three, Don Juan is going to give you the most of what you ask for. Cl. Crimson Glory is beautiful and smells wonderful, but it WILL mildew and it's likely to rust on you. Dublin Bay is a nice climber and will likely be the most disease resistant, but it is NOT the "classic, red rose" your husband requested. It's also the least fragrant of the three. Don Juan, once established, can have a touch of mildew (which goes away when it gets hot and dry, presuming it has sufficient water), and it has the color, form and scent your husband wants. Do both of yourselves a favor and give him Don Juan. I think you'll both be happy you did. These I trained several years ago on a client's home in Santa Clarita. Kim   |
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- Posted by Moses_supposes none (My Page) on Mon, Aug 25, 14 at 1:17
| Thank you for the quick reply, Kim! Luckily it looks like Don Juan is fairly easy to find as well. I just looked at another thread...what do you think of Cl Etoile de Hollande? btw, not sure if it makes much difference, but the arbor is in full sun next to a concrete patio. |
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| You said you were going to a pink climber on the other side of the arbor? There is also a pink Don Juan, sport of the red DJ, I bought one last year at Chamblees and it smells better than the red DJ that I have too. It is a brighter pink rather than a soft pink, it is one of my best roses and has bloomed all summer. |
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| You said you were going to a pink climber on the other side of the arbor? There is also a pink Don Juan, sport of the red DJ, I bought one last year at Chamblees and it smells better than the red DJ that I have too. It is a brighter pink rather than a soft pink, it is one of my best roses and has bloomed all summer. Kim that pic of the Don Juan is beautiful! |
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- Posted by Moses_supposes none (My Page) on Mon, Aug 25, 14 at 18:26
| Kim, the deep red Don Juan against the grey stone is beautiful! How is it attached? boncrow66, thanks for the suggestion - that pink Don Juan is very pretty, too. But I was thinking something a little lighter. After visiting Descanso, Huntington, and LA Arboretum, (& seeing jacquelin3's photo of, I believe, Crimson glory, Sombreuil, and a purple clematis), I was thinking possibly: Cl. Cecille Brunner - is it a repeat bloomer here? any thoughts on one of those three with Don Juan, in SV? |
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- Posted by Kippy-the-Hippy 10 Sunset 24 (My Page) on Mon, Aug 25, 14 at 19:48
| I am up the coast from you in Santa Barbara. In every garden tour give, despite walking past 100 other roses, I hear people chanting "Don Juan Don Juan Don Juan" to remember the rose they liked. But I do not detect a scent from ours. If you want to hide a tall neked legged rose in the back of the bed, Mr Lincoln has a wonderful scent and is red. |
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| Moses -- I've never been able to smell Don Juan. I sure can smell Sombreuil, Cl. -- and it should be gorgeous for you. But I'd just like to put in a vote for a rose that's NOT been mentioned, but which I know is DYNAMITE in Ventura County. Check out 'Fourth of July.' It is fragrant. It is disease-free here -- even closer to the beach, where I am -- and a great bloomer. It will actually like your heat a bit more than my sorta still cooler climate. Of Modern roses, it's among my personal favorites. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Fourth of July on HelpMeFind
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| You might also, BTW, want to contact the folks at the Ventura County Rose Society -- it's your "local society," and they have folks who know your conditions. See link. :-) |
Here is a link that might be useful: Ventura County Rose Society
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- Posted by Moses_supposes none (My Page) on Tue, Aug 26, 14 at 0:56
| hmmm...a tall nekkid legged Mr. Lincoln rose...I wonder if I already have one of those? We have three roses that were here when we moved in pre-1987 and which are still doing fine, regardless of us! I've always wondered what they were - here's the red tea(?) rose. |
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- Posted by Moses_supposes none (My Page) on Tue, Aug 26, 14 at 1:01
| Sorry for the large photo...still new to this! jeri, thank you for your input - the 4th of July looks like a fun climber to have! But I did promise my husband a more 'classic' dark red climber on his side of the arbor...wonder if he'd notice? Jeri, just how thorny is Sombreuil? And what do you think of MMe Alfred Carriere around here? and thank you for the tip on contacting VCRS - I'll do that! Amy (aka Moses_Supposes) |
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- Posted by Kippy-the-Hippy 10 Sunset 24 (My Page) on Tue, Aug 26, 14 at 10:16
| Have you been over to Otto and Sons in Fillmore to look at what they offer? They usually have a good fall sale in October. Even if you buy nothing, it is a nice place to wander and see what scents and shapes you like. I think MAC is not happy here, but I get her confused. If you are considering growing out a smaller band sized rose, I got 'Fields of the Wood' from Rogue Valley Roses. The photo on their website makes it look pink, but it is actually a nice shade of red red and so far has been growing rather vigorously. No idea how it will look in the fall or over the winter because it is only a few months old. But I love the look of those currant red blooms. My friend loves the scent of Don Juan....I can't smell a thing. |
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| I would take your husband to the nursery Kippy recommended and see if he can smell Don Juan. Some peoples sniffers smell things that other people can't smell. I can smell both of my DJ's but the pink one has a stronger fragrance than the red one. I don't have this rose but I have heard really good things about Tess of d' uberbilles from DA from other posters on the forum. The pics I it are gorgeous and it's supposed to smell good too. But I think the thing to do is smell before you decide. |
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- Posted by Moses_supposes none (My Page) on Tue, Aug 26, 14 at 21:23
| thanks everyone! That's very interesting that some Don Juans are fragrant to some people and not to others...or is it the plant itself? I wonder whether own root or budded make a difference? I'm just learning about all this stuff... Kippy Thanks for the heads up on the October sale. I visited Otto's for the 1st time in July but just got a handful of white and pink icebergs for the front yard for some instant color :) I did wander around the rows and rows of roses for a while...a little intimidating! |
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- Posted by Moses_supposes none (My Page) on Tue, Aug 26, 14 at 23:17
| one last question...It looks like Otto's DJ is from Star Rose & Plants. It isn't clear if it is own root or grafted - does it matter? |
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- Posted by Kippy-the-Hippy 10 Sunset 24 (My Page) on Tue, Aug 26, 14 at 23:54
| DJ roots pretty easy and is vigorous, maybe see if Heirloom can ship you an own root band? |
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| Amy -- The roses at Otto & Sons will be budded. That should be fine for our part of the world. (I'm over in Camarillo.) If it comes to that, I personally prefer own-root roses, and no longer have many budded ones. But if the rose I wanted was available only as a budded plant, I would not avoid it. FRAGRANCE: Fragrance is a funny thing. It's very individual -- one person's fragrant rose is another's "I can't smell that." For that matter, one person's deliriously wonderful fragrance is another's ICK! So I would recommend a visit to a nursery or two to "smell the roses," and see what your husband likes. (I, personally, cannot smell 'Don Juan.') Otto & Sons is a good place to do that, because they have a wide selection of roses -- and not all nurseries do, these days. Visit them on line, to see what they offer, these days. The whole Klittich family -- NICE folks. |
Here is a link that might be useful: Otto & Sons Nursery
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| Jeri's suggestion to go smell and look at them is good. I would add to it not to go when it's hot, dry and windy. I know, when ISN'T it? If you're going there to detect scent, you must be there when it's starting to get warm, with a slight bit of humidity and the air is still. Scent is oil and alcohol and they evaporate and blow away quickly in hot, dry and windy conditions. You can certainly tell what the rose will look like in those conditions, but you're unlikely to be able to smell much, other than yourselves, in those conditions. Kim |
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| Given current conditions, I'd say -- be there when the nursery opens, OR wait until a different and kinder season. The rest of this week's supposed to sizzle. FWIW, I was taught long ago "how to smell a rose." Take in a little breath. Bury your nose in the bloom, then EXhale through your nose, into the heart of the rose. NOW breathe in deeply through your nose. You'll get any fragrance that is there, and has not completely dried away. Our climate is, increasingly, unkind to the fragrance of roses. Jeri |
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| My roses smell the strongest in the morning. If the rose is for your husband I would follow jeris advice and take him to smell some roses. |
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- Posted by Moses_supposes none (My Page) on Thu, Aug 28, 14 at 16:26
| I think I'm just going to go with the Don Juan; it seems to match the criteria the best (though some of the comments re:rust in Cali in other threads concern me a bit) and since my husband recently suggested "we could just put in some bougainvillea' he now gets what he gets, lol. Is this the proper place to ask about Mme Alfred Carriere or should that be in the old rose forum? I was thinking I could plant it in the corner of the rose garden - it would have 18+ feet of fence on one side and 6 feet plus the 8 foot arbor on the other. Does it work well horizontally and could it be kept manageable if kept somewhat pruned? It is just such a pretty rose! And thanks again for everyone's patient responses to all these questions! |
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| You would get more responses if you posted on the Antiques forum. But look -- 'Mme. Alfred Carriere' always mildewed some for us, in Camarillo -- unless she was sprayed. And spraying a monstrous climber is NOT something you want to sign on for. For your conditions, I wish you would consider, instead, 'Lamarque.' -- an 1850 Tea Noisette. In your conditions, 'Lamarque will be completely disease-free. And, if it matters to you, we know that 'Lamarque' was grown in Ventura County from 1869 onward, until the present day. Look it up at: Blooms are larger than those of Mme. Alfred, and fragrant. They are white, shading a delicate lemon at the center. I have grown Mme. Alfred, and I grow Lamarque, and Lamarque is the better rose in our area, hands-down. Jeri Jennings, |
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| Sombreuil-NOT is a thorny monster which mildews rather easily in inland parts of So Cal. Lamarque is tremendously more elegant, fragrant, trouble-free and easier to live with. MAC is addicted to mildew along the coast in Pacific Palisades and in the San Fernando and Santa Clarita Valleys. I've grown her all three places and eventually replaced her with Lamarques. Jeri's nailed this one. Kim |
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- Posted by Moses_supposes none (My Page) on Thu, Aug 28, 14 at 21:23
| Thanks, Jeri. Such a pretty rose, and the long history in Ventura is very cool! |
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| Yup. Our area really has an interesting history -- and I love knowing I have plants which were growing here in the 19th-Century. If the bonus is that they are vigorous, disease-free, and lovely -- YIPPEEE! :-) |
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