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root disease ??

Posted by Brooks23 KY zone6 (My Page) on
Sat, Aug 30, 14 at 12:22

Hi, I had a rose that just has not done well this summer and not bloomed much. When I dug it up all the roots were knotty as you can see in this picture. I have put the rose and roots in a plastic bag to throw away. Can you tell me what is wrong and what I can do? Can I plant another plant is this place. I had ordered a hydrangea that takes the sun and was going to plant it where the rose was but not sure what to do.
Thanks for your help, Brooks23


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: root disease ??

If the roots have been chewed off, it is voles.

If the roots were rotted, the cause would be compacted, waterlogged soil. How much have you been watering? Was the dirt sticky with a sewage smell when you dug it?

Root knot nematodes can ruin roses, but not in heavy soils, which you probably have in Kentucky.


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RE: root disease ??

Galls can also produce those growths on roots and canes. Kim


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RE: root disease ??

Hi roseseek, I probably did not get a very good picture of the roots but broke off one of the knots . The roots were mostly knots.
They haven't been chewed off.
The dirt was not sticky and did not smell.
I do have clay soil.
It is raining now but has been dry for awhile and we need the rain.
Do you think it is safe to plant there or should I leave the space alone for this season?
Brooks23


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RE: root disease ??

As Michael said, Root Knot Nematodes don't like clay soil. They prefer sandy soils with good water availability so they can freely move through the soil, so I doubt it's nematodes. Did the plant come from Florida or some other source where the nematodes are an issue? If not, I would completely rule that potential out. Crown Gall is a bacteria which naturally occurs in many places. It is present in many soils and infects the roots through wounds (pruning, shovel, root gnawing animals, etc.) The bacteria stimulates the plant to generate the gall response much like a rock in your shoe stimulates your foot to form a callus or blister. What you see is the plant's response to the presence and action of the bacteria. Some roses are EXTREMELY susceptible to the bacteria's effects while others appear to resist it entirely. Here in SoCal, in our heavier, alkaline clays, roses with strong Wichurana or Multiflora backgrounds are particularly susceptible, which includes Huey as a stock.

Some people firmly believe the soil should be replaced completely or otherwise "sterilized" to kill the bacteria before replanting anything rose in the same spot. Many ignore that and replant with another rose with few problems. Might you remember what the rose the growths were found on was? Knowing what it was could help figure out if it is one which is particularly susceptible, and might help direct you to others which may not be.

Crown Gall can also be mitigated by using products like Galltrol or Gallex if you can find them. Often, you only find the galls on roots or at the crown, but on susceptible types like The Fairy and Flower Carpets (wichurana based) and Ballerina (multiflora based), it's common to find them all along the canes, too. Ashdown Roses pictured a gorgeous old Gloire de Dijon on the rear of a friend's house in one of their catalogs. The next year, the whole plant developed galls all over it and died. I've also frequently found them all over weeping standards of the Meilland landscape shrubs. It's one of those "give it a try and see" type situations. Each "expert" is very likely to have his (or her) theology about it. Personally, it isn't something I've really worried about as I've seen it all over, for the past thirty years, in gardens, propagation fields and on canned nursery stock. I've figured there was always a chance of a rose contracting it because it's in the soil and there is no way to produce a bare root without SOME damage to the roots. It's that damage that permits the bacteria to enter them. I've even had own root plants which have never come in contact with the native soil, develop them in sterilized commercial "soil-less" potting mix. Kim


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RE: root disease ??

Thanks Kim for the information. I looked at my notes and I ordered the rose from Texas in 2011. The name is Easy Does it and it was in a little pot , own root not grafted.
It has never done very well and last fall I moved it to a place that got more sun thinking that would help. Nothing helped and after looking at the root I can see why. I am going to reread your post.
Brooks23


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RE: root disease ??

I've found gall on the roots of four different plants at different times in my life.

Of those, three came from ONE vendor. They were all own-root plants, shipped in bands ... so their roots had never been in the ground, that's for sure.

When we received them, WE planted them in big pots in the ground, as a defense against gophers ... so they were still not in the ground. They all grew weakly, and their roots never got out of the pots. When we took them up, all had root gall. And they all went in the trash.

Very disappointing.


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RE: root disease ??

Hi jerijen,I am going to check my rose list and see what else I got from that dealer.
I want to take a careful look at my roses tomorrow. Of course I did not know this rose had galls until I dug it up.
I am glad the garden web is here to share information.
Thanks !!


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RE: root disease ??

You're welcome, Brooks. There isn't anything about Easy Does It to make me expect it to be susceptible. Gall is SO common and SO easy to contract. The old Roses of Yesterday and Today used a contract grower in Wasco, CA for whom it as an issue and treated every one of their plants with Galltrol to prevent galls. I know. I visited there and Andy Wiley, Patricia Wiley's (the owner) son told me. I'm sure many other sources have done it, too.

I have a multiflora based polyantha which was imported from Germany and pot grown during and after importation. Cutting grown plants were produced from that plant, also pot grown, never grown in the actual soil. MY plant from those cutting produced plants has also never been planted in the soil and it is galled. No soil contact and grown in Miracle Gro Moisture Potting Soil which has no "soil" in it. Where'd it come from?

As I said, some are extremely susceptible to gall and its effects. Others, not nearly as much. I've grown plants which had them for years before declining and others which began their decline before I discovered the galls. I guess if you never want them, the best thing to do is to obtain the bacterial controls and use them, because the bacteria exists many places. I don't know if there are climatic or other environmental issues which make it more probable your roses may contract gall or not.

I've seen it happen right in the middle of a bed of roses which hadn't suffered mechanical root damage, severely affecting a plant or two, but none of the others. One garden had a whole row of Flower Carpets begin a steady, quick decline then break out in them all over the canes before dying. (no big loss, IMHO) Yet none of the surrounding roses have declined. I don't know if they are galled as you can't see any evidence of it above ground and I'm not about to damage and disturb their roots by digging them up. Kim


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RE: root disease ??

Thanks roseseek. I have lost a lot of roses to the rose rosette disease and now this. I still love roses and am hanging on to a few hardy ones. I am going to try to get another picture of the root of the plant . There was hardly any root but just gall or knots. Really ugly. I felt it was something bad.
Brooks23


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RE: root disease ??

Isn't what we know about root knot nematodes based largely on the problems in Florida soils?

I don't think I've read many scientific papers about soils and Rosaceae in Tennessee and Kentucky. This leads me to wonder if our problem simply isn't diagnosed because roses aren't a crop in our states.

A lot of tobacco was grown in this part of the world and 'galls' were a problem in tobacco fields. The operative genus of galls being Agrobacterium.

Here is a link that might be useful: Some of the tobacco and Agrobacterium papers


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RE: root disease ??

I have replanted where a rose had gall on the roots and the replant was successful. Just replace the soil that will touch the roots, and don't prune or break the roots of the new plant. I haven't used Galltroll, but it might be worth the trouble.

Chances are the sick plant was infected when a cutting was taken either for own root or to start the rootstock plant for grafting. The bacteria enter through a wound, and pruners can carry it from plant to plant. Sometimes you see multiple galls up on the branches, and all are at old pruning sites.


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RE: root disease ??

michaelg, Thanks for the information. I think I am going to plant a little bit away from where the old rose was planted and and also replace the soil.
Here is another picture that show the galls. Pretty ugly
Brooks23


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Actually, once infected, I've observed galls all over the plant, even where no obvious, nor remembered, pruning cuts have been. If the variety is particularly susceptible, it can break out in them anywhere. There may also be some strains more virulent. I've never read anything discussing that, but why couldn't it be? There are strains of RMV and other plant viruses which are stronger, why not bacteria? Kim


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RE: root disease ??

I have had several roses that appeared to have crown gall. The growth would look like cauliflower or brain. Early March I dug up Over the Moon and Grande Amore (side by side) that had crown gall visible at ground level. These roses were several years old, Dr. Huey and own root, and different vendors. I think it's just in my soil and when opportunity knocks, it will appear. Over the Moon never was vigorous, but Grande Amore always was.


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RE: root disease ??

Dang! I am going to watch the whole flower bed. Cauliflower or brain is a good description. :-(


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