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trying again after 26 years ...

Posted by terratoma 7a (music1@ntelos.net) on
Sat, Aug 17, 13 at 13:36

Yes, it's been that long since my first and last experience with roses. I remember it well: most memorable was my failure, along with the various sprays I used for various purposes (To this day my ex claims that the 'fumes' from these sprays created a respiratory problem_ temporary, thank goodness_ that affected our daughter.)
I figure a quarter of a century is sufficient time to lick my wounds and give it another try. Recently purchased several varieties of the Knockout Rose series: according to the inducements, it's free of all the maladies encountered with past roses, maintenance 'free', needs no deadheading and on and on... While I'm not ready to buy into all the claims, I thought I'd increase my chances of success asking for advice/recommendations.
Last fall, I dug a trench 18" wide and 18" deep, filling it with a 8" layer of kitchen scraps (no bones) and covering it with the original soil. Figured that by now (nine months later), I'd have turned that gray, somewhat slimy clay soil into something worth planting in. Digging planting holes the other day, I find that the soil's texture hasn't changed.
So, the questions;
1. Will the roses benefit at all when their roots grow deep enough to reach the 'composted area'? Can I expect those roots to grow that deep or are they primarily lateral roots?
Or was this attempt at trench composting all for naught?
2. What about this slimy(wet) clay soil? I've read repeatedly not to amend the native soil unless you do so as far as the plant's roots will extend. While I have no basis to argue with that, was wondering if, for some reason, it might not apply to roses. ( I know, go on dreaming.)
Apologize for the length of this query; promise to be succinct next time. (Was going to say 'briefer next time, until I realized how that is sometimes used in clothing ads. ;0)


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

Well, I will tell you something my grandmother taught me about roses. They like sardines.
Bury some around the roots and wait for the amazing shoots to grow. I did it with my mango and buried a barracuda's head, it now doubled its size in 2 months ;)
try it mate.
Oh, be aware of hungry cats.... hehehe


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

The claims for 'Knock Out' are mostly true. It seems to resist blackspot just about everywhere, although here it can get the similar-looking cercospora spot during a mild, wet summer. There are also some other new roses such as the Kordes Fairy Tale series that have good resistance. Also new chemicals including the relatively safe and eco-friendly insecticide spinosad and some fungicides that are much more effective.

Clay soil is fine for roses. Just dig in some manure and, if water puddles up in the area, raise the bed several inches. It's a good idea to get a soil test from your county ag extension office. You can bring the results here.

Sheet composting is normally done at the surface so the bacteria have access to oxygen. Anaerobic decay is not wholesome. Does it smell like sewage down there?

18" is too far down to have much effect on the roses. Most feeder roots are quite shallow, and especially in heavy soil. However mature roses will send some fleshy roots that deep, more or less, depending on the rootstock variety.


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

I think it's great that you are trying to grow roses again but don't limit yourself to knockouts only as there are many others that probably will do well for you. Ammending the soil is always a good thing, but I think you may have dug your stuff down a bit too deep.

When I was preparing a new flower bed, I would add several bags of manure in the winter as well as hundreds of banana peels. Every few days I would use a pitch fork to turn over the soil to make sure that everything had the chance to have contact with the air and decompose evenly.. Just be sure to turn the soil often and add lots of organic matter and your roses will be beautiful:)
Maude


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

Hi Terratoma, where do you live? If your soil is wet in August, I think you need a raised bed to grow roses successfully. My heavy, red Virginia clay has lightened up nicely after ten years of compost and shredded pine bark mulch. I layer it on top every year and let the worms do the work.


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

Appreciate all the suggestions and recommendations. Let me address some of your comments...
Soil test done by Virginia Tech's Soil Lab a year ago came back on the acid side (6.1 pH).
Yeah, was wondering about the advisability of 'trench' composting which had been recommended a year ago. Although there is no odor from the holes I've dug, I'm unfortunately familiar with anaerobic composting. (First time I tried my hand at composting_ again, 26 years ago_ I put freshly cut grass in a bin I'd made. Each week, I'd add more grass, never once turning it. I soon began wondering if an ammonia factory had moved nearby! I was the new poster boy for "how not to make compost". After 26 years, I've gotten better ;0) )
On the other hand, I learned early on to plant "high" so as not to tempt root rot. Has always worked out well.
Don't have ready access to manure (my bad luck) and my compost (made properly) has not "finished". This is what prompted my inquiry about using some of the packaged soil amendments available. In the past, I've incorporated them into the native soil. It seems to improve the texture of the planting medium as well as drainage. (And if I'm permitted to brag, the hydrangeas, Japanese maples, hostas, etc. are thriving.) Still, I've heard that this practice is a no-no. Would like to hear your opinions about this.
I live in Roanoke, the foothills of the Appalachians.
Maude, I usually pitch the peels into the compost bin. This fall, I'll dig them into the new beds.
Hope to hear from everyone.


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

Bagged manure from the box store is OK. Dig in a 3" layer. Maintain an organic mulch as cecily suggests. If you aren't smelling hydrogen sulfide, you could invert the soil un the trenches to get some benefit from your trench composting.

pH 6.1 is fine for roses. Do you have info on any nutrients such as P, Ca, Mg?


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

Michael
What I do remember about the results of Ca, Mg and other elements (other than NPK) is that they were listed as 'very high', high', 'moderately high', etc. rather than a numerical value. Consulted the local state extension office with this data and was told that the sampled soil should support plant growth (or something to that effect). They did not recommend anything be tilled into the soil.
What dumbfounded me was that all samples ( I provided samples from about 7 areas on the property) showed 'very high' amounts of organic matter. Many of these areas are simply supporting grass!
I typically mulch all plants with a 1" layer of pine mulch topped by 2' of pine mini-nuggets.
Enjoy the mountains. And thanks for the suggestions.


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

I'm in the Roanoke River Basin myself :) One free amendment you might want to mix around a bit is coffee grounds. Starbucks gives them away if you ask. You might mix a touch of lime with them, but I've read their pH isn't really acid. My soil isn't as acid as yours, though. They are nice and fluffy, and you say your clay is slimy, so it might help.

I rarely worry about having heavily-amended parts near the roots and more solid native soil farther away. What you definitely want to avoid are those 'bowls' of solid clay that can form in some soils. If you pay attention to your clay, you'll see how much it naturally kind of mixes with other things or stays as a bowl.

I always amend the hole here for roses (I have few clay-bowl areas), and I plant higher the wetter the area. I also always use native dirt mixed in! I think the roses need to get used to the clay a bit from the start. Then I top-add stuff to continue to improve the soil, but often that's just leaves and grass clippings.

My roses definitely don't keep their roots in the holes, so it's working.

I might be able to get away with pure native soil for mine, but I've tried before and size matters in my soil. I have more problems with disease on small roses (dieback) in my clay compared to mature roses rooting through to pure native soil. I give roses a little help at first with amendments in their original hole, basically. Later on, with better roots, they take the clay very well.


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

People don't need to worry about the pH of mulch.

As far as the effect of organic matter mixed into the soil, peat acidifies significantly, while mushroom compost may be highly alkaline because of lime added to it. Other kinds of manure and compost are probably not going to have a substantial effect.


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

The best thing you can do for yourself is to dig around on this site and find the varieties that do well for people in your area. The performance differences between varieties is enormous in blackspot prone areas.


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

You may also consider buying grafted bare root roses from Canada--the root stock they use does better in your soil than the Dr. Huey used by American growers.


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

  • Posted by jim1961 5/6 Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Mon, Aug 19, 13 at 18:12

I just want to wish you the best in your adventure
back into growing roses! :)


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

Thanks to all of you fantastically helpful and supportive gardeners. Makes me feel like there's a team helping with my planting.
Short of the large box stores, this area has three nurseries with varying reputations for variety of stock, health of plants, employees' helpfulness/knowledge base, etc. Now that I have my first roses safely planted, am planning a midweek visit to all to check their offerings. Assuming they stock varieties other than the Knockout series, I hope you'll let me come back on here and ask your advice regarding the choices. Or should I start a new thread?
(Charlesstpete: Good advice. I plan to ask same questions on the Virginia forum)
gary


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

Please visit the web sites for Chamblee's Roses and the Antique Rose Emporium. To find truly BS resistant roses, you'll most likely need to order them. Roses Unlimited is good also, you could make a road trip to South Carolina and pay them a visit. Anyway, do a little computer work before buying locally so you know what all your options are. Good luck!


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

Thanks Cecily
Checked out the websites you referenced. I assumed their plants would be sent bare root; this is a terror for me: I've never planted a bare root; am more comfortable with container grown plants. (Guess that applies to most things in life for most people; only the adventurous try new ways!) Chamblee's provides container grown. Antique Rose Emporium state that they provide "own root" roses. not sure what that designates; will call them tomorrow. Roses Unlimited had outstanding reviews from purchasers; again, I'll give them a call to find out if they offer bare root or container grown.
There are so many categories! While I'm not looking foe a 'maintenance-free" rose, I'd like to stay with those roses that are relatively disease resistant and require no special fungicides, etc. And I love the size (height and width) which the knock Out series promises. From this poor effort, does it sound as if what I'm looking for could be classified as "shrub roses"?
Finally, will you recommend a 'best" time to plant? I try to plant my trees, shrubs and flowers (perennials) in mid-September to mid-October: can usually count on mild weather and the soil is at it's "softest" and the roots have time to get a good start before the onslaught of summer sun the following year. Is this good for roses?


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

These three nurseries sell only own-root, potted roses, mainly in 1-gallon pots. They are one-year-old rooted cuttings, 1'-2' tall. ARE'S plants are usually somewhat bigger than the others.

Bare-root roses are perfectly easy and reliable if you order for delivery in early spring (ideally early March for you). Soil is best prepared the previous fall. Potted roses are best ordered for mid to late spring (ideally mid to late April).

I would advise you to wait. Plants that you put in next April may do better than young plants that struggle through a winter.


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

  • Posted by kousa Zone 6 (My Page) on
    Thu, Aug 22, 13 at 12:48

I had started growing hybrid tea roses since last year after many failures 20 some years ago. Back then, i did not know about amending soil and which hybrid teas were disease and insect resistant. I do not know which roses you like but so far I have a really easy time growing Grande Amore, a red HT, Francis Meilland, a light pink HT, and Daybreaker, a pink/orange Floribunda. I also like Pope John Paul for white for flower performance (continually blooming) but it is starting to show fungal diseases on the lower part of the bush. Best of luck to you.


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

If you are going to try and grow roses without spraying in the East, make sure you get LOCAL advice from other non-sprayers. There is an almost unlimited number of roses that will do fine in other places that will crash, burn and sink into the swamp where you are.


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

Roses struggle through winter because they are bred for vigorous repeat blooming or unusual colors. A really good rose will often continue to grow right up until a killing frost, and awaken from dormancy during a warm spell in of winter. This actually isn't a problem if you can keep the leaves healthy all season, and wait until Spring to prune them. The top part will awaken and die during those mid-winter warmups, but there will be plenty of buds and stored energy in the lower part of the cane when Spring arrives. But, if you buy bare roots in the fall, the tops have been cut off for shipping. As for those strikingly gorgeous roses that can only be grown with great difficulty--you should avoid them.


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

OK, have tried to condense the suggestions made. (BTW, all three nurseries I visited this weekend had the Knock Out series, including the Sunny and Rainbow varieties, although these last two didn't seem to be as vigorous as the others. Several of the plants were a bit different from what I've seen. While most of the canes, foliage and flowers were 12-18" high, there were one or two canes that rose 36" (I measured). Is this atypical of shrub roses?) One of the nurseries had a large selection of Jackson and Perkins roses which looked like they had seen better days.
Now, back to where I started.
Prepare planting bed in the fall, preferably planting the following spring. Rather than trench composting, dig in manure, shredded leaves, compost and veggie scraps (including coffee grounds and those bananas) during the fall/winter, turning frequently to aerate. Clay in the soil is fine (assuming it's not hard as a brick); just don't dig a "dishpan" to hold water and watch the roots rot! In the spring, check the bed and, if necessary, incorporate more amendments. Plant high (I always do), particularly in low lying spots which tend to collect water. Mulch with compost or pine bark mulch and top with pine nuggets, etc. While I certainly appreciate the recommendations for various rose varieties, I'm going to stay with the Knock Out roses, as they seem to be just what the doctor ordered for one whose confidence was shattered so long ago. : 0 ) If I've omitted any critical suggestions or turned them on their head, please advise.
Thanks to all for your graciousness and patience.
gary
Next time around, I'll be asking for pointers on feeding, watering and pruning.


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

  • Posted by kousa Zone 6 (My Page) on
    Mon, Aug 26, 13 at 18:29

Well, if you plan to plant only knockout roses, you really do not need to put much work in the soil. I have planted two blush knockouts on really poor poor soil, and they still thrive. I do not fertilize, spray or even water unless three weeks go by without rain and they did fine. The single blush and single red are the most vigorous. They do not need good soil. But the sunny, the double and rainbow knockouts need fairer soil to do well in my experience. If you are going to amend and improve the soil, you should at least try some other varieties other than knockouts.


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

Good point, kousa.
For the present, I've planted only the Knock Out roses. They seem to offer the best chance for success. Sounds as if they overwinter easily and can be expected to come back next spring better than ever. Hey, we all need a dose of instant gratification!
In the meantime (and before jumping into unknown territory), I want to learn about the various types of roses. While most websites can provide the names (hybrid tea, floribunda, glandiflora, etc.), I want to know more about each type: size, form, watering and feeding requirements, disease-resistance ... and, of course, their innate beauty. Maybe that seems like overkill to some, but it's how I approach selecting and growing. If I can't satisfy the plant's needs, I have no reason to expect the plant to perform as I expected. A typical lose-lose situation. (Does this make any sense?) Armed with this information, I can better make a decision about additional roses to grow in the future.

With this in mind, my next step is to properly prepare beds for those roses.

I've discovered that some websites (actually a lot of websites) are not very useful in this regard. I've found Gardenweb to be one of the few exception to this. (That's why I keep coming back!!) So I'll be looking for some books that provide accurate and supplementary detailed information. Any titles that you or others can provide will be a great help.
With luck, the Knock Outs will simply be a start.
gary


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

Paul Zimmerman is the man for that!

http://paulzimmermanroses.com/

Ashdown Roses was the bomb, and it was so, so sad to see it go. But PZ is still very rosy, and his book is my top suggestion :)

Here is a link that might be useful: Amazon link for PZ's book


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

Thanks Meredith.
Thanks to you, I now am on the waiting list for the Roanoke Valley Library system's one copy of 'Everyday Roses'! The library system has about fifty books on roses, ten of which were published since 2000. Since I know nothing about the credentials of the authors, I'm going to read some of the more recent texts; it seems they would provide information about the newer introductions, as well as up-to-date information regarding their care..
Please feel free to recommend more!
gary


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

Responding to the OP's post of last Monday--

Preferably, don't dig in leaves or scraps that haven't been thoroughly composted--such material will "rob nitrogen" for the first season. Dig in manure or finished compost. Put the other stuff in the compost pile or on the soil surface as mulch.

This post was edited by michaelg on Sat, Aug 31, 13 at 16:45


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

Michael
Thank you for this tip because I was definitely making plans to dig all of those goodies_ shredded leaves and kitchen scraps (including those banana peels and loads of coffee grounds!)_ into the new beds throughout fall and winter in preparation for planting in the spring. And I was really looking forward it, too, because it seemed like a solution to another problem.
I've always thought that, given the lower temperatures in the fall/winter months, the compost process greatly slows down. So why add anything to the compost pile during those months, right? So, I shred my raked leaves, bag them and, come summer, begin adding them to the compost pile (or begin a new pile) together with freshly cut grass.. It always seemed a shame to not be able to use those leaves right away, so digging them into those future beds this fall would be nice.
I reread some of the earlier comments and, sure enough. I read it wrong. The suggestion made was, as you pointed out, to use those leaves as mulch during the fall and winter.. I guess I read what I 'wanted' to hear. :0)
But, at the least, spreading them over the beds to be planted will provide a way to make immediate use of them.

Thanks again for catching my error.
gary


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

  • Posted by jim1961 5/6 Central Pa. (My Page) on
    Sat, Aug 31, 13 at 15:23

I'm going to try "Home Run" rose next year...
It suppose to be very disease resistant. Single blooms
just like regular Knockout but a more true red...
We shall see how disease resistant it is here...

I'm also going to try Carefree Celebration & Thomas Affleck next year... Another we shall see what happens in the disease resistant dept....

Info on Home Run below:

Here is a link that might be useful: Home Run rose


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

Good job on keeping the faith and giving roses a try again after all these years! It's entirely right that Knockouts can handle a wide variety of situations, so you don't have to be too finicky about your soil preparations. However, better soil leads to better plants and more robust growth and blooms, so it pays off.

If you want other options that are as easy-care and long-blooming as Knockouts, you should have a look at the Easy Elegance series by Lim (breeder). They're popping up around the country at garden centers, and they're every bit as hardy, healthy, and long-blooming as Knockouts, but they come in a wider variety of colors and heights. My personal favorite is Sweet Fragrance (peach) and Yellow Submarine (if you can stand getting that song stuck in your head), but of all the roses I've planted I've never lost an Easy Elegance rose. I think they'd also boost your confidence and give you a lot of choices of colors and styles beyond the Knockouts.

Regardless, welcome back to the fun of rose gardening!

Cynthia


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

Hi Cynthia
The Easy Elegance website shows the local Home Depot as a retailer for these roses. I must admit that the different cultivars shown on their site are beautiful! My daughter, her husband, my Willow (3 year old granddaughter) and my ex are taking me out to celebrate my seventy years on this planet this evening but I'll schedule a trip to our local Home Depot for Saturday.
BTW, the height and spread of these roses are different on various websites. Also, they're sometimes described as 'rose shrubs' on some sites and 'upright roses' on other sites. I'd appreciate if you'd give me the benefit of your experience in these matters.
Have been in your state once_ Omaha_ in the summer of 1982. Was 100+ degrees in the shade downtown! Was that a crazy summer or is that a typical temp for you?
Thanks for your heads up regarding Easy Elegance roses and your encouragement.
gary


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

Gary

Glad you'll have a chance to try out some Easy Elegance roses this weekend, and happy birthday!

As for height and spread, the various EE roses differ depending on the variety. For me, Sunrise Sunset and Super Hero have been small, fairly rounded bushes so far, maybe 3-4 feet in each direction. Macy's Price, Mystic Fairy and Music Box have been medium height, around chest height (maybe 4.5') and perhaps 3' wide. Sweet Fragrance is a tall bush, over 6 feet if I let it, and fits your category of "upright bush" at 3.5 feet wide, the way I prune mine anyway. You may want to get used to relying on the website "help me find" (helpmefind.com) that has an amazing resource of information about roses. The information may vary from your experience, but it gives you a place to start in making your plans and judgments.

Sadly, your experiences of heat in Omaha are not a fluke - 100 degrees in the shade is entirely typical in summer, and -20 typical in winters (we specialize in variability.) For the last two weeks we've had solid temperatures of 95 and higher, and tomorrow's Husker football game is supposed to be 100 degrees and brutal sun. Once you add in the heat of 92,000 fans, it promises to be unbearable. They've had over 30 years of consecutive sell out games, and I don't think I can even give my tickets for tomorrow's game away at this point. Plenty of durned fools will be there, but I won't be among them.

Enjoy your roses and we want to see pictures of your rose successes, and we know there will be some!

Cynthia


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

Grief Cynthia - the UK would simply grind to a halt experiencing such extremes. Course, we seem to have got wimpier over the years but honestly, a few inches of snow and schools close (snowdays happened maybe 3 times in my entire school life), no-one goes into work and the news channels and newspapers are filled with the latest weather related outrage - last winter, we hit -18 and it was practically a national disaster.

Mind, we have been getting more and more flooding catastrophes - every year, numerous towns and villages are under water - a small island, getting covered in concrete - stands to reason the water has nowhere to go. I was astounded to read that the UK is 40x smaller than the US, yet our population is only 5x the number....so US citizens have 8 times as much space per capita than us crowded citizens of the UK (although East Anglia is definitely in the unpopulated part while Norfolk has a similar ratio to the US although a lot of that is watery fenland).
Happy Birthday Terratoma - hoping you have many more. Granddaughters keep you on your toes.


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

Camps

Yep, it's all what you get used to. There are plenty of places in the US where an inch of snow (or even the threat of it) will close schools, but it makes sense if you don't have the equipment to clear it off the roads or people who know how to drive in it. Here, Nebraskans seem to thrive on and seek excitement from the weather (when life gives you lemons...). I continue to laugh at the newscasters breaking into the TV programs with a severe weather bulletin that there MIGHT be a chance of a tornado WATCH (translation - somewhere, somehow conditions are possible for a tornado to develop). On the other hand, I lived in Manchester England for a year when I was in college and I remember one time it snowed a healthy dusting overnight. I bounded into our offices with typical Nebraskan weather enthusiasm, "Isn't it great?? It actually SNOWED!!" When no one responded, I added, "Don't you like the snow?" My classmates all stared at me in stereotypical British reserve and one of them remarked, "Yes, but we don't get that excited about it".

Back to your original topic, Gary - once you get your roses this weekend you have to chime in and tell us what you bought! Then we'll all chime in and tell you how good your choices are, and you'll get the rose bug all over again after 26 years.

Cynthia

P.S. In all fairness, the winters have been so much milder we haven't seen -20 F in at least two years (barely -10-15), but it has been hotter in the summer to compensate.


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

Wow, what a Saturday. Sure enough, my opinion of Home Depot's garden department (at least the local one) has proven true. After verifying by phone that they did, in fact, have some Easy Elegance roses, wouldn't you know it: they couldn't locate them when I arrived!! In fact, they claimed that they had never heard that name. On a positive note, I showed that I have developed tolerance during these later years: instead of the frowns, grimaces and complaints, I simply returned to the parking lot, barely shaking my head and chuckling to myself. Gave myself an A (almost an A+) for self control. ;o)

I forgot to mention earlier that Lowe's, while having an abundance of Knockout's, advertises three others: Jackson and Perkins' 'Veteran's Honor' (a hybrid tea), 'Sunblaze' (a miniature) and 'Red Lady Banks' (a climber). None were in stock but, since I'm just getting restarted with roses, think I'd prefer to initially stay with shrub roses.
Cynthia and Camps
The trip to Omaha I mentioned earlier was during the three years I worked for the University of North Dakota in Grand Forks. My ex (wife at the time) was born and raised in Georgia and had never lived north of southeastern Virginia. That first winter_ never got above 30 below zero, day or night_wasn't a total loss, however. Our daughter, Nora, was born the following November!! Summers were great: pretty much a high of 75 degrees with a pleasant breeze. But those winters....
I bet the 'Huskers threw a scare into you in their game against Wyoming. It seemed like the Blackshirts took an extended break in the fourth quarter. On the other hand, most of their defensive starters from last year are gone and the young defense will only get better. From what I've seen on TV. Martinez seem to be a better passer now that he's not scrambling as much. Yesterday's game went much better. Will be interesting when they begin conference play. Best of luck to them!
gary.


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

Hi Gary

Well, sympathies on HD not having the roses they claimed. You might check with the local garden store - at this time of year, many of them have EE roses and they're liable to be discounted. I picked up a 5 gallon Grandma's Blessing a few weeks ago for $10. In your zone you can still plant potted roses this late in the year and get them established, I think.

Brrr, remind me not to move to Grand Forks! I actually like winter, and after 10 years in Wisconsin I can handle a lot of snow and constant cold, but staying in those kind of negative numbers makes me shiver at the very thought. Hard to think of Omaha being a balmy vacation trip, but in contrast that must be the case.

Good job keeping up with sports issues outside of your zone - who's your team that you follow? Yep, we are going to have serious defense issues this year with almost entirely freshmen and sophomores on the D-line, though Gregory as a junior transfer seems to be stepping up. I'm always a little amazed that the Huskers are a ranked team in years like this, given the rather substantial gap between our offense and defense at present. The SMiss game was a nice motivator after we struggled with Wyoming, but the real test comes next week on whether we can play well against UCLA. We're apparently a 6 point favorite, even though they're ranked ahead of us, presumably because it's a home game. Me, I'd settle for playing well and keeping the game close, given the level of inexperience we have. Yes, Martinez is a mature and pretty steady quarterback if he can watch those turnovers, and we have two pretty good backup quarterbacks in the wings as well.

Sorry for the lengthy tangent, but since it's your thread I guess you can start topics off your original intent. Back to roses, if your Lowe's still has Veteran's Honor next spring, that one has done fairly well for me, but you're perhaps wise to get your confidence back with the shrub roses before venturing further afield.

Cynthia


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

Cynthia
Checked with those three nurseries in the area I mentioned
earlier. Nothing's changed: no new offerings and no Easy Elegance. I plan to keep checking each week; If I find a 'deal I can't refuse', I'll probably make a purchase. Will be another type of rose for experimentation!
I was raised in Ohio and rooted for the Buckeyes for years This was during the years when they were coached by Woody Hayes, whose entire game plan was 'three yards and a cloud of dust'. The word 'pass' was not in his vocabulary. Since moving to Virginia, I support Virginia Tech in the ACC. After eight consecutive 10 win seasons, it all came to a crashing end last year: lost too many starters to graduation, new players were disappointing and a promising quarterback had a horrible second year. So we started this year with a revamped offensive line, same QB and three new coaches. Oh yeah, and we got the pleasure of playing defending national champion Alabama in our first game. Considering the opponent, they handled themselves well. Time will tell ...
gary


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

Gary, those of us here get most of our roses by mail order. HelpMeFind.com lists vendors for every available variety. You can order (preferably in September) to get bare-roots delivered in March or smaller potted roses delivered in late April (for 7a). So if local retailers don't have what you want, there's no reason to settle-for.


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

Gary

Yep, it looks like it's too late in the year in your zone to be having much selection for roses locally, and as Michael suggests you can instead start setting up some spring orders. If you want some EE roses online, Chamblees has several of them for next year (I'm particularly fond of Sweet Fragrance, if you like apricot) and they're only $10 each plus shipping for a nice gallon sized pot. Now there's a deal you can't refuse, eh?

Ah, good ol' Woody Hayes at Ohio State - he was a coach like our Bo Schembechler at U Michigan in playing "run or die" football, which made the rivalry between those two schools an interesting matchup. Sympathies on the luck of the draw in playing Alabama on your first game, particularly with a young team. Nebraska would have been toast I'm sure, and I recall Virginia Tech beating the socks off us a few years ago as well, so a decent showing is something to be proud of.

For your upcoming rose bed, be sure to leave a layer of organic material on top of your hard-won trenched soil and let the worms do the hard work this fall/winter of mixing in the good stuff at the top layer. You have my admiration for tackling trenching, but it makes my back hurt at the thought. Then you can browse rose online offerings at your ease and enjoy the fall preparations!

Cynthia


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

Terratoma,

I live about an hour from Roanoke. Where are the best Garden Centers in Roanoke to buy roses. There are a couple of varieties I would like to add without having to drive to Durham.


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

Hello lexilu
As I've mentioned, I haven't found much variety among the garden centers regarding roses. Of course, I only began looking for them a month ago; it's probable that the centers/nurseries had a larger selection earlier in the summer.
Greenbrier (Starkey Road) is the largest nursery in the Roanoke area: huge selection, mature and vigorous plants and pricey. Pine Ridge Nursery in Salem has become one of my favorites. Although the volume and selection isn't as large when compared with Greenbrier, i'm impressed by the fact that the owner grows all of his Japanese maples on his tree farm outside of town. (Since Jms are my favorite tree, you could say I'm a bit biased!)
Last year, Southern States (Botetourt County, just north of Roanoke) decided to add a garden center and it's been a roaring success. Staff is knowledgeable and helpful and Cynthia is a pure pleasure to deal with.

Except for a few roses from Jackson and Perkins, about all that I've seen remaining at all these places were the Knockouts. Of course, Lowe's and Home Depot have them too. Hope their roses will be reduced soon; they haven't as yet. (I'll be checking Southern States again today and Pine Ridge the first of the week. Will let you know if anything's changed).
If you decide to venture this way, I'll be more than happy tp provide directions.
gary


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

Michael
Will you share with me the pros and cons of bare root versus roses in pots? As mentioned, I've steered clear of bare root material so my knowledge is less than zero about it.What about health, vigor, time to maturity, care and other factors that may differ? And do you have a personal preference? Thanks.
gary


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

Michael
Will you share with me the pros and cons of bare root versus roses in pots? As mentioned, I've steered clear of bare root material so my knowledge is less than zero about it.What about health, vigor, time to maturity, care and other factors that may differ? And do you have a personal preference? Thanks.
gary


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

Michael
Will you share with me the pros and cons of bare root versus roses in pots? As mentioned, I've steered clear of bare root material so my knowledge is less than zero about it.What about health, vigor, time to maturity, care and other factors that may differ? And do you have a personal preference. Thanks.
gary


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

sorry for the 'triple posting'!!!


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

You can edit your own posts.

With some exceptions, own-root implies small band or one-gallon potted plants that will take longer to mature. Bare-root implies two-year-old grafted plants. These same bare-roots are used to produce the "canned" or potted roses at the garden center. So potted roses can be either small own roots by mail order or larger grafted plants at the garden center.

There is no reason to avoid bare-roots. They are easy and reliable if you order them for planting in early spring, ideally early to mid March in eastern 7a, and not later than mid-April. These plants have been in cold storage since November.

Some roses, especially some hybrid teas, are slow to develop on their own roots and are better grafted. Some roses, not including typical modern roses, sucker heavily on their own roots and are better grafted. With tender varieties on graft, you have to protect the graft from freezing. But in most cases it doesn't matter. Your grafted roses may develop their own roots.

The particular value of garden center potted roses is that you can plant them any time after mid April in 7a. (You don't want to expose the new growth to freezes of around 28 degrees.) Boutique roses in small pots are too little for late summer or fall planting. Stored bare roots start to go bad in late May or thereabouts.


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RE: trying again after 26 years ...

Michaelg
Guess (know) I'll be checking out mail order sources using HelpMeFind.com after finishing my library books re roses. You and others have given me what I need to try
bare root (although I'll order some potted varities as well to soften the blow should ... well, you can guess by now).
Thanks to you and everyone for your direction, support, encouragement and just plain goodwill!
gary


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