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| Hello. I've been reading lots of posts on the forum about mail order nurseries etc. (as I intend to order at least 10 new bushes this fall.
Is Regan nursery a good one? Seems they have lots of choices! I'd like a mix of OGR, floribunda, grandiflora, rugosa and HT's primarily for cutting. I was reading here about own root roses. What are the advantages? Thanks! Susan |
Follow-Up Postings:
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| Here's a reasonably good past thread on own-root vs. grafted. |
Here is a link that might be useful: own-root vs. grafted discussion
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| Susan, you will find, on this forum, that own roots are the favoured form - almost planting dogma. In Europe, more or less all our roses are grafted onto various rootstocks - which is a further cause of dissent and confusion, as the rootstock itself can make a considerable difference. The point I really want to make is that the choice of own root or graft, is, imo, of less importance than the overall health, style or purpose of a selected rose. If you see a rose you really like, from a reputable grower, suited to your conditions and at a price you can afford, go for it without getting overly concerned about the grafting/own root debate. |
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| I think campanula UK makes a great point. Don't be overly concerned about own-root or graft/budded plant. However, if you're in a very cold climate, I'd go with the own root plants in case the tops get winter killed. |
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| Since you're in Nashville, you should consider ordering from Pickering to get roses budded onto multiflora rootstock -- multiflora does really well in clay soil. |
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| Most of the questions/comments on this forum deal with modern roses. I do not agree that own-roots are the favored option here. It's definitely true, however, that own-root plants are favored on the Antique Roses forum -- obviously so, since the vast majority of those roses are never available in the U.S. as grafted plants. Many OGRs remain available to us today simply because they do perform well on their own roots. Those that did not lapsed into extinction. I've found that some of the modern shrub roses thrive on their own roots, but they are the exceptions. Due to many frustrating experiences over the years with own-root HTs and Floribundas, I now steadfastly ignore those unless they can be purchased as grafted plants. Undoubtedly, others have better luck. I suspect those who do (1) have more patience, and (2) garden in a more rose-friendly environment that I do. I don't doubt for a moment that own-root roses can regenerate from their roots after top growth has died. Unfortunately, not once in my many years of tending roses have I experienced that phenomenon. I've certainly had my share of roses to kick the bucket (own-root and grafted ones), but they always seem to do so from the roots up -- gone for good. |
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- Posted by poorbutroserich none (My Page) on Sat, Aug 4, 12 at 10:45
| Ok. Thanks for all the information. I've done a bit of research but I hadn't yet been able to determine (other than winter dieback) why the graft on HT's etc. made a tremendous difference. I have definitely been bitten by the rose bug and it is almost painful trying to reduce the multitude of roses I "want". AARS scores, disease resistance are always criteria I consider but that doesn't reduce my choices by too much. *wink* Mail order nursery suggestions are needed if anyone would like to share their experiences. Susan |
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| Depending on what varieties you're interested in will make a big difference on whether or not own root or grafted would be best. There are a lot of older HTs and some Florabundas, (say from the 40's through the 70s and maybe even 80s) that were bred to be grafted and do very poorly on their own roots. And a lot of those are prone to diseases if not sprayed regularly. The breeding programs during those times were not oriented to "green" or "easy care" roses but more toward the bloom size, shape and color. That's not to say that some of them aren't wonderful roses but they can lean more toward the Diva side. You have to make a choice on how much time and effort you want to put in to them. Some of my favorite and most treasured roses are those HTs my Mom bought in the 50s 60s and 70s like Double Delight, Garden Party, Angel Face and Peace. So if you are looking for that perfect exhibition style HT with the high pointed center spiraling outward I'd go grafted. They make for stronger growing plants. If you're looking for easy care or more landscape bloom and color then own root flories and shrubs might do better for you. What ever you decide on you'll find as you get more in to it that your choices will continue to change and evolve too. Some things will do better than others and some that you thought you'd like will turn out to be not what you expected or wanted. Good gardens are never "finished" but more of an ever changing progression of experimentation. |
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| Most hybrid teas grow and bloom better if they are grafted on an appropriate rootstock such as multiflora for acid soil or Dr. Huey for neutral or alkaline soil. This is because the rootstocks have more vigorous root growth than the hybrid teas can produce. More vigorous types of roses may grow vigorously on their own roots. Canadian-grown roses on multiflora are much less likely to be infected with mosaic virus than western-grown roses on Dr. Huey. Some own-root producers are careful to avoid propagating from virused stock, others not. Virus is a bigger concern for growers in zone 7a and colder than those in warmer climates. As pointed out above, Dr. Huey fairly often produces rootstock suckers, which are a nuisance. Multiflora does so much less often. Some old roses produce lots of suckers from the named variety and develop into thickets. With these, grafting to multiflora reduces the nuisance of suckers, compared to own-root plants. In Florida, most roses are grafted to Fortuniana rootstock because it is highly resistant to southern root-knot nematode, which kills most roses in warm sandy soils. Own-root roses can live essentially forever. Grafted roses can have the named variety killed by zone 4-6 winters, or, after decades, the graft can wear out and become incapable of producing new basal shoots. Finally, grafted roses are large, two-year-old plants, while most own-roots from boutique nurseries are way behind them in development. |
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- Posted by poorbutroserich 6 nashville (My Page) on Sat, Aug 4, 12 at 13:16
| Awesome! Exactly the info I needed. |
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| I can personally vouch that some post-1930, own-root HTs are slower than slow. On the other hand, with own-root you sometimes get a do-over (whether you want it or not!) because the rose re-sprouts after you have ripped it out. My current, third-try Lady Hillingdon, doing beautifully in a good spot, came from a re-sprout of the second Lady Hillingdon (more than a year later!), who failed in a lousy spot. Reine des Violettes, who is an absolute horror here, has come back three or four times, at least -- yesterday, I looked over where he once was and, yes, he's baaaack (#%$!). Same story for several others. Sometimes it's nice to get a second chance, other times it's not. |
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| Well, of course Reine des Violettes is a "she" -- what was I thinking? |
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| Lol, most roses are "shes" aren't they? Well, except for ones named after men like my Dick Clark and Trump Card. But I do have a few that I think of as male. Oklahoma and Veterans' Honor are definitely male for me for some reason. But the Queen of Violets! No, RdV is deffinitely a girly girl! |
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| PBRB, You asked if Regan is a good supplier of bare root grafted roses. Yes it is. Another source that I've always been very pleased with is S&W Greenhouses located in your home state. S&W has a great selection, but a very brief shipping window. However, they sell all of their varieties as potted roses well into the spring and early summer at their nursery/greenhouse operation in White House, TN. All of their grafted roses are on Dr. Huey root stock. Until I read this thread and posts on the thread linked above, I had no idea that suckering from Dr. Huey and Multiflora root stocks are a problem for some gardeners. Since the early 1980s, I've grown lots of roses in three different zones and have never had a root stock to sucker. These days, avoiding certain root stocks in the hope of avoiding rose mosaic virus is a futile approach. The only roses I've acquired in recent years that I know to be virused, are two plants of the HT 'Louise Estes' purchased on Multiflora from Palatine. I received no response from Palatine when I notified them of the problem, but at least they were quick to pull 'Louise Estes' from their inventory. Since you seem to be fairly new to roses, I encourage you to focus initially on grafted moderns (HTs, Grandifloras, Floribundas) purchased from a reputable vendor, and heirloom varieties purchased from a source that supplies ownroots in sizes larger than bands. I'm hoping you have great success with, and derive much pleasure from your garden! |
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| Well, of course Reine des Violettes is a "she" -- what was I thinking? I am afraid they remain an 'it' for me, much as I love them. |
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- Posted by poorbutroserich 6 nashville (My Page) on Sun, Aug 5, 12 at 12:35
| Lord have mercy Windeaux! There is a local supplier with a huge variety? Guess I will have to save my Christmas (and birthday money). At least the drive is long enough that I won't go every weekend. HA! Thanks for the local info. Susan |
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- Posted by kstrong 10 So Cal (kathystrong@gmail.com) on Sun, Aug 5, 12 at 18:53
| Also -- be careful who you listen to on this topic. Take all opinions from folks who sell only own-root roses with a LARGE grain of salt. And likewise the opinions of people who sell only one rootstock as to the superiority of that particular rootstock. I happen to favor grafted roses, on fortuniana if I can get it, but that's definitely a warm climate rootstock only. Pink Clouds is almost as good and works for cold climates (or so I hear). If I can't get a plant grafted on fortuniana (and sources for these are rare), I grow a large plant of fortuniana myself and use it to graft them up myself quite often. I have done many comparisons over the years. That's what works best where I am -- SoCal. Kathy |
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| LOL, Windeaux. For a few weeks here in Livermore, Dr. Huey is THE most prominent rose in town -- he is EVERYWHERE! My mother, even, once gave me a "rooted cutting" of Cecile Brunner that turned out to be you-know-who! I don't know why the difference between here and your experience except, of course, you undoubtedly take better care of your roses than the general population here. For that reason, and because it would be pointless to graft the majority of the roses I prefer to grow here (no modern HTs or floribundas), only 2 of my 81 roses are grafted: Just Joey (a grade 1 1/2 body bag that is now ten years old, 7' x 7', and very floriferous -- I have never understood why Ray Reddell in the "Rose Bible" found him "puny") and one of my 2 Buff Beauty (no difference whatsoever between the grafted and own-root versions). However, when I lived in western Massachusetts (Z5), what I had was mostly grafted, except for the rugosas. I never noticed rootstock problems there (or with my two grafted roses here, yet). |
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