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Quest for a good lavender

Posted by flaurabunda 6a, Central IL (My Page) on
Wed, Aug 22, 12 at 15:36

I think I have finally come to the inevitable conclusion that I need to shovel prune my alba. It's a lovely rose, but it's too large for us and I've fought a losing battle for 3 years trying to keep her reigned in and tidy on 3 different support structures. She's just too much for me and for the front of our house.

I would love to find a mauve hybrid tea that makes me happy. I currently have Blue Girl. Love the color, love the bloom form, love the scent. The downside is that she grows straight up---I mean steeeeraight up the house like a ladder---and has blind shoots except at her very high tips. Attempts to cut her back yield more blind growth. Beautiful rose if you plant it in the ground and have a 2nd (and eventually 3rd) story balcony that she can poke through.

I also have Koko Loco, which is gorgeous, but it's low-growing and has a looser form, and the blooms are gone in a day and can't be cut for indoors. I think it will mature into a gorgeous garden rose, but it's not quite what I'm looking for.

Neptune makes me knock my head against a wall. I had 2 blooms last year. I had only 3 more this year, and nothing from May until now. In fact, it had no growth through the sweltering heat and drought and just started putting out new, red growth last Thursday. It usually just sits there & mocks me if the temps are over 75.

I adore my WWII Memorial, but it's such a light mauve that it really looks white most of the time. I have a few other minis and minifloras that are various shades of mauve, and I love them. But I'm looking for that oh-so-glorious juicy, big, fat bloom with lavender hues. I think the one I've considered most heavily right now is Nicole Carole Miller. I do not want Angel Face or Babs.

I'm looking for:
--Lavender [not pink, and not so light that it's white or silver]
--Doesn't shut down in normal summer heat
--Doesn't have ruffled petals
--I'd prefer high-centered, exhibition form
--I can spray periodically but I don't want a total disease-ridden dog
--Fragrance doesn't need to smack me in the head as I walk by, but it should at least be present. I don't want to order anything else that's unscented.

I don't want much, just everything.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Have you considered the Kordes rose Magenta? I have seen it growing at the Huntington and thought it was gorgeous. Very unusual color which is hard to photograph too. On HMF the color seems to vary from location to location (from quite lavender to closer to pink), so what hue it would show in your garden would be hard to predict. But it does have a strong fragrance as one of its virtues.

Melissa

Here is a link that might be useful: Magenta on HMF


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

From what I see on HMF, the bloom form reminds me more of an old garden rose, but it IS a Kordes and their roses generally are fantastic for me. It's a little on the pinkish side. Would love to hear if anyone remotely near me can testify to its color in Midwestern conditions.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

  • Posted by hoovb z9 Southern CA (My Page) on
    Wed, Aug 22, 12 at 16:40

'Heirloom' is quite reliable.

Here is a link that might be useful: 'Heirloom' @ helpmefind


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Yep, Flaurabunda, I'm guilty on the old garden rose front. I tend to like that style and thus they are the ones I am likely to think of first. And hoovb, Heirloom sure is one lovely rose.

Melissa


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Nicole Carol Miller opens here to a ruffled flower. Though it was healthy here, I've heard reports of black spot elsewhere. Who knows what it will do in your climate? Perhaps Kordes roses might well be the way to go? French Meilland roses may not be as cold hardy as you might need. Kim


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

I'm also a fan of good ol Heirloom. If it were my call, every rose garden would have at least one plant of Heirloom and one of that other old favorite, Double Delight.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Flaurabunda, your Blue Girl impresses me as being a climbing sport. You might consider obtaining one known to be a bush type and seeing how it performs for you. Most of the older mauves are closely related to Sterling Silver (Blue Girl and Blue Moon included), or they are of the J&P Heirloom line. I know many have great success with Heirloom. It's never been to my taste as the mauve is too red and the plant type just doesn't speak to me. I can see those genes in most of their later mauve roses.

I don't know if Magenta would be a good one for you or not. You're looking at nearly sixty year old breeding, with sixty years of improvements in health, vigor and durability missing from what you may find in newer types. Are the later ones you are dissatisfied with own roots or budded and on what stocks? There has to be a common reason why they haven't performed acceptably for you. Kim


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Ebb Tide

I've said unkind things about my plant, but I don't spray. The TRUTH is that Ebb Tide is one of the most beautiful roses I've ever seen for flower color and fragrance. If you can find a larger own root or find it on a good root stock for your area, then Ebb Tide might be superb since you spray.
When I was bemoaning and berating mine someone wrote that theirs was weak early on but got better. And mine is better this year - maybe because I'm aborting every bud as if it were still an infant and not the three year old it is.
But when I miss a bud and it opens, I am SO pleased.
It is a floribunda. And its color is DEEP purple in cool weather which fades to a smoky lavender. However, it opens lavender here in warmer weather.

Here is a link that might be useful: Ebb Tide on HMF


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

How about Lady X? I have that one and also Blue Girl and the colors are quite similar. Love the lavender blooms as well!


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Paradise, no fragrance, producer, and blooms are small in heat.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Lady X was a good plant and decent bloomer, just zero fragrance. Mme. Violet wasn't nearly as good a plant, but also no scent.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Wow---lots of good responses!

I do have Ebb Tide and I love it so far. It's just a baby, but it fills my desire for that deep, smoky purple.

I have Paradise as well, and love it, but I wish there was a way to keep the foliage from turning into fried chicken.

Heirloom appears to be a lovely rose, but perhaps too pink or red for my taste. I may end up with it, though, if it's the most suitable rose.

One I keep forgetting about; Fragrant Plum? I often overlook Grandifloras just because I'm used to searching HT's and Flori's. Any opinions on that one?

I know there are 2 new ones out there--Carruth's Love Song and Poseidon/Novalis from Kordes. Poseidon doesn't appear to have exhibition form. I haven't heard a word about Love Song yet, and didn't see anything about it in Horizon Roses.

Kim, I've been thinking that my Blue Girl has sported on me, but I'll be darned if I know what to do with her. I'll admit that I stink at taming climbers and I don't know how to make them happy. It's absolutely impossible to train canes on her; they are stiff as a 2-by-4 and grow like an unforked family tree. For now she lends some attractive greenery to the front of the house & only airplanes can see the blooms.

I have honestly contemplated Stainless Steel & Lagerfeld, but I'm afraid that in our summer sun they'd look like just another white rose.


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Love Song

Maybe the San Jose folks will give us firt hand reports on Love Song? Does it fade to white or hold its color well? Does it truly lack fragrance? It's a Caruth baby so how bad could it be? San Jose isn't the best BS test spot; maybe someone has tested it in a higher pressure blackspot area?

Here is a link that might be useful: Love Song on HMF


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

The HT 'Royal Amethyst' has been a good garden lavender for me. It's not a particularly tall plant, but does tend to grow quite wide. I find it to be a good source of color in the garden because it's a relatively heavy bloomer, and it's one of those atypical HTs that consistently produces blooms all over the plant -- from the top to near the base.

I think, though, that RA is probably at its best in conditions that are more temperate than what I can provide. In my sultry zone 8 garden, the blooms seldom achieve the refined look you'll find in many of the RA photos at HMF. As I mentioned above, I consider it a good, colorful garden rose -- it gives me lots of blooms, but few that I'd care to cut.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Love Song looks wonderful. I just ordered Fragrant Plum. It sounds like it's a good grower a lot of places. Heirloom blooms well here and is intensely fragrant. Charles de Gaulle is suppossed to be a very good lavender ht.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Gah! I forgot to answer Kim's other question. I haven't personally grown Angel Face or Barbra Streisand, but for whatever reason, they just do not appeal to me at all.

I had to look up my spreadsheet on the others. Neptune & Blue Girl are both on Huey, Paradise is on multiflora, and Ebb Tide is a baby own-root. The original part of Blue Girl above the graft is what has pooped out at 3 feet tall; I'll get around 5 or 10 blooms on the first flush and then---kaput. The climbing portion appears to be own-root and is a foot away from the grafted part.

I just saw some pics of RA over on the gallery and it is quite pretty.

Of course you all know how this is going to end.....ordering 5 roses for 1 spot in the garden and doing some sort of cosmic voodoo getting them all to fit.

Hmmmmmm........Charlie looks like he might be right up my alley. Heat tolerance?


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

I am in love with my English Perfume from R U. It has been a bloom machine with plenty of full lavender blooms. Just a suggestion to check on! lesley


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

There was another thread on the forum a month or two ago about good lavender roses (sorry, I haven't had a chance to look it up). You might check it out. Kordes' rose, Blue Bayou, might be a possibility for you. It's the bluest rose I've ever seen. I'm liking Carruth's Twilight Zone better than Ebb Tide, though I'm a big fan of ET and have three. TZ holds its dark color better (so far) than ET does. TZ is a grandiflora with a nice growth habit. One of my favorite lavenders is Blueberry Hill, but it doesn't have exhibition form, for sure. Diane


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

What you might consider is this winter, dig around the back of your Blue Girl and attempt to remove the climbing sport. One of the really awful things about many climbing sports of HTs is how danged STIFF they are. Cl. Tiffany was such a stiff, huge monster, it ate a friend's back yard for years until she'd had enough. I don't blame her. Mutations such as these can also vary greatly in their repeat flowering, vigor and required size. Perhaps, if you could eliminate the climbing portion, your Blue Girl could be exactly what you want, where you want it? Kim


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

That's true--are you suggesting that the climbing sport is keeping the grafted portion from blooming because of their proximity?

I need to get a good, recent pictre of it. The last ones I have out there are from 2011, when she was just topping out at 7 feet. Even the portions that are thinner than a pencil are stiff as rebar. There's no bending this gal, only snapping.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Consider the climbing portion almost like root stock suckers. That part is more vigorous, drawing more resources from the plant just as suckers of Huey would. Eliminate that resource drain and the bush form should have all it needs to perform as well as it can. I don't know if Blue Girl was what you wanted before the more vigorous portion formed, but if it was, this would seem the most cost effective solution. Kim


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Yes it was, and yes, this makes sense. Climbing BG won't share the candy with its little sister.

I still like the evil idea of buying 5 of the roses suggested above to go into the 1 empty slot. When they arrive next spring I can claim temporary insanity to my husband & make puppy dog eyes to get him to cede another portion of the lawn.

.....I'm thinking I should have posted that last part under an alias. He's been known to peruse our forum.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

The rose that meets your criteria for color, form, fragrance etc. may be Lila Vidri. I haven't grown it yet--it's on my wish list--but I've heard great things about it.

Colleen

Here is a link that might be useful: HMF Lila Vidri


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Colleen, that's beautiful. Want. Now.

Okay, the rose also must be available. After a $5 handling fee, $6 for the waiting list, and $23 for the rose, I'm at $34 before shipping for 1 plant. Does RVR allow you to order just 1?


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Your husband will see right through the ruse...better to just tell him you intend to "research" the issue. I know that would work far better with me. You are interested in growing them and gaining the experience, the expenditure fits the budget, I love you, go for it. I do think, though, you probably have the best solution already in your garden. Kim


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

  • Posted by seil z6b MI (My Page) on
    Thu, Aug 23, 12 at 19:12

I have Angel Face and Paradise and while I love them both I would not recommend them to anyone. AF is a black spot magnet and Paradise is a very stingy bloomer.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Seil,
That's what I've heard about Angel Face from EVERYONE. Some roses are worth the trouble, but I think in the case of Angel Face, it's just not worth it.

My Paradise blooms very easily and often. Mine's a third year plant on multiflora, and it's the largest and healthiest rose in the backyard. It's never without a bloom and it's one of the few that didn't shut down in the heat. The drawback? Leaves that really do have appearance of fried chicken. I noticed in the most recent Weeks catalog that the listing for Paradise discloses its tendency to have burnt foliage. Everyone should believe it.

You know the most painful part about my disappointment in Blue Girl? Zero disease. Beautiful shrub with beautiful, healthy foliage. So I can see why I shouldn't part with her.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

  • Posted by seil z6b MI (My Page) on
    Fri, Aug 24, 12 at 10:20

My Paradise is in part shade so the foliage doesn't burn but that's also probably why it doesn't bloom a lot.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Fragrant Plum was a tall, productive, fragrant reddish mauve in the old Newhall garden. Its foliage fried just as Paradise's does, and just as many of the other Armstrong mauves from that line did. Christensen developed the Ivory Tower-Angel Face seedling and put out Plum Crazy, Blue Ribbon, Silverado, Quicksilver and several others, all with very easily fried foliage. Fragrant Plum is one generation away from Plum Crazy and does it, too. Azure Sea, Lagerfeld, Neptune and Stainless Steel area also out of that line, but never had the awful, tender foliage in that garden. Kim


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

While you should remove the climbing sport if that's what it is, there's no need to hunt reasons for the bush part not to repeat well. 'Blue Girl' has always been notorious for stingy repeat bloom (if any).

'Poseidon' doesn't meet the OP's specs for form, but Pat Henry at RU thinks it is exceptionally good compared to the run of mauve roses (the weakest color group by far). I notice in pictures that it seems susceptible to brown-spotting of the petals, which is probably botrytis fungus, worst in cool weather with rain.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Another interesting thing about mauve roses is what I was told about their fragrance last year at Great Rosarians at the Huntington. Judy (forget her last name) who works there and is writing a book on rose desserts, said that of the over 2,000 varieties grown there that she had tested, the mauves/lavenders had the worst fragrance for making rose water. Something in it made the rose water go bad/not turn out well. On the other hand, red roses tended to make the best scent for rose water, with 2 of the best being William Shakespeare 2000 and Francis Dubreuil (likely Barcelona). The cookies made from those 2 varieties were scrumptious! Interesting no?

Melissa


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

In Re: Mauve
I just read a post that potentially contains buried treasure.
I can only provide one link at a time, so this link is to the treasure hunt. Subsequent link (next post) may be a treasure map.

Here is a link that might be useful: Black Spot Resistant Yellows?


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Sweetness

I'm particularly impressed by the comments given with the photos.

And what a great name!

Any first hand knowledge outside of that already referenced? Or updates from those in the referenced material?

Here is a link that might be useful: Sweetness on HMF


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

My own personal experience with Sweetness was not good. I had it for two years at least, and it was the worst rose in my garden. It didn't grow and bloomed very little. The blooms withered quickly, even when temps were mild. I dug it up this spring and replanted with Heirloom which is doing fine in the same spot. Diane


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

'Love Song', a new Carruth Floribunda, looks/sounds promising . . .

Here is a link that might be useful: 'Love Song' @ S&W Greenhouse


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Also, another new Floribunda, 'Poseiden' by Kordes . . .

Here is a link that might be useful: 'Poseiden' @ Regan's


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BUCblu

All fun with pretty pictures aside, if I were to add one these days it would probably be Dr. Buck's 'Blue Skies' because I'm in zone 9 (not trying to make it survive zone 4) or wait. I'm doing the latter because I can't find folks who can attest to the performance of 'Blue Skies.'

Otherwise, my roses are liking Isaac alot already.

Flaurabunda, in researching more on Sweetness I found the thread where you'd already tried to find it. Did you have any luck?

Here is a link that might be useful: BUCblu


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Chris, I bought Blue Skies from a Texas group the year before it was officially on the market. Even counting the Harkness Hulthemia hybrids I imported directly from Harkness in Britain, including shipping, Blue Skies was the most expensive bare root rose I bought prior to 2000. Without shipping, it was $25 as an exclusive introduction. It was, without a doubt, the most miserable excuse for a plant I have grown to date.

The foliage was afflicted with every fungal issue possible. Crown gall ran rampant. It showed RMV from its first leaves. Of the nearly 70 different Buck roses I've grown over the years, this is the one I enjoyed shovel pruning. I hope something has been done to clean it and it likes your climate a whale of a lot better than it did mine. I had to have it to see Buck's "Blue Rose". The ARS description of "Ageratum blue" sounded wonderful. It absolutely was not. Good riddance. Kim


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Hi Kim,

Hope you are happier than your post, lol.

I think we'd all agree that we shouldn't hold the rose accountable for its mismanagement in propagation. I am sure it didn't want RMV anymore than we would want the flu. A recent thread that you probably read as well concluded that VID rose stock is currently available to the trade....

Also, you know my own root mantra.

Back in the day bare roots by default were grafted (or budded if you prefer) onto rootstock. In fact, the only national bareroot own root supplier I'm aware of even now is Bailey's Nursery which handles zone 4 hardy roses.

No wise gardener would plant a grafted rose in zones 3 or 4. I wouldn't do it in zone 5.

Anyway, the point is that Bucks were intended to be hardy in zone 4 like the Bailey's lines and so should never have been propagated anyway other than own root.

Speaking of which, I have experience with only two grafted plants - Don Juan & Ebb Tide. After reading your discussion about the removal of Flaurabunda's climbing problem and while disbudding Ebb Tide this morning, it occurred to me that I might have a double budded Ebb Tide on Fort. And that all or most of my problems with my Ebb Tide might be a result of Fortuniana being asked to support more than it is capable of - given its age. Is that possible? And if so, may I remove the weaker bud stock without risk? I ask because we're in our rainy season and if that's the solution, I certainly don't want to lose 3 years of effort to rot or who knows.

If it is true, then you can imagine that my anger over this situation mirrors yours over the 'Blue Skies' you received.

As I studied it, the basal stems are too far apart to be the same graft.
Boo budding/grafting. Boo!
May I remove the weaker bud stock without risk?


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

I would not remove it. I do my own budding occasionally, and I usually do "double bud" because I am not that great at it yet, and that improves my chances. Most often, however, if the two do actually both "take," one of them will eventually die out on its own, which, by definition would be the weaker one. But I never just take one or the other off. I would doubt that double budding is the source of any problem with your plants, or a source of stress on the roots.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Chris asked: "it occurred to me that I might have a double budded Ebb Tide on Fort. And that all or most of my problems with my Ebb Tide might be a result of Fortuniana being asked to support more than it is capable of - given its age. Is that possible?"

I don't think so. Fortuniana is an incredibly vigorous plant. It flows a ton of sap. Your problem with Ebb Tide is probably because it is Ebb Tide. I have an own root one. It is a one cane wonder. I also care for an original Week's budded Ebb Tide which is also a one cane wonder. Ebb Tide has pretty foliage (sometimes), pretty flowers (usually) and great scent but it is not a great rose PLANT, IMHO. As a plant, I find Midnight Blue far superior, but it doesn't have the flower shape of Ebb Tide.

You don't have to remove one of the buds. I wouldn't. If the roots can't support them, it will shed one, but I seriously doubt that will ever be an issue with that root stock.

Bucks...whether they should or shouldn't be budded is moot. The lion's share of them were introduced by Roses of Yesterday and Today and were budded on infected Huey, then sold world wide. Dr. Buck was a close friend of Dorothy Stemler who owned ROYAT. He named Amiga Mia for her. No one else showed any interest in his roses other than ROYAT, and their reputation for RMV infection is legendary. The Earth Song growing at my youngest sister's home is rooted from a piece of the Earth Song Dr. Buck shared with a gentleman who visited him at Iowa State decades ago. Straight from Dr. Buck's hands, it has RMV. How many other of his roses were "mis propagated" by him or his staff at the university even before ROYAT "mis propagated" them? Kim


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Kim

Glad to see that you think Ebb Tide is not all that, mine seems to be having issues. I thought from the gophers or heat or??? It sat all summer stewing about being planted. Then threw a whole new set of canes (so much for that wonder vase form) and is now abandoning all the old canes slowly but surely. Ugh...roses...lol


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

  • Posted by alameda 8 - East Texas (My Page) on
    Mon, Aug 27, 12 at 13:49

I agree with Kim - tried to grow Blue Skies 3 times - own root from Chamblees, who have great roses. It just wouldnt thrive, not worth the effort. I got Poseidon this year - very healthy plant, grows well, lovely blooms in spring. This summer, they looked like miniflora blooms. I still like it - good disease resistance - but little bitty blooms right now.

I saw Royal Amethyst at the Tyler Municipal Rose Garden in June. Simply gorgeous! There were lots of bushes planted and huge amounts of blooms. I love it, plan to order it this fall.

I like Nicole Carole Miller - have had it several years. It didnt bloom much in our heat, but then, not alot did. I do like it.

An older rose that I have 2 of and love is Outta The Blue. Smells great! Blooms lots! Really like this one. Not lots of form....but I really like this rose.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Buck's Silver Shadows wasn't any stronger nor enduring. It was on Huey from ROYAT and definitely had RMV. Unfortunately, their treating every single plant they sold with Galltrol didn't work. It developed crown gall in its second year. Gall was not something I normally had issues with in the Newhall garden. Silver Shadows could have a tremendous scent, but as a plant, it was also a train wreck. The foliage fried like Blue Skies' and the Armstrong mauve line out of Ivory Tower's did. The desired silver-lavender tints were extremely fleeting and the flowers lasted about as long as it took to cut the buds. It was definitely not one which translated well to hotter, drier areas. Kim

Here is a link that might be useful: Silver Shadows


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

I recommend "sweetness" rose or "paradise" rose. I have both, as well as "blue girl."


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

if you are keen on Kordes, why not take a look at Novalis - seems to fit your criteria.
I also like lavender....but only as singles (Lagoon, Lilac Charm, Escapade)


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

I'd also recommend Heirloom. I have one that may a bit lighter then you want, but it is so unbelievably stunning in perfect high center HT form and fragrance that you may be able to overlook. Stainless Steel. I think it is fabulous.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Actually lighter is better; I have lots of the deep and bright colors, and very few that are delicate (Secret, Blue Girl, Jude). I've never noticed thrips, so I'll keep knocking on wood on that one.

I see tons of recommendations for Heirloom. Charles de Gaulle really floats my boat too......toughie. And I've always wanted Stainless Steel, ever since I can remember. Perhaps I need to re-evaluate what I have and find 2 others that can either be put to rest or re-purposed in someone else's yard.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Just my two bits on Lavenders: Angel Face is stunning here (high desert - bone dry). There is no bs pressure in this neck of the woods, but I would certainly heed those that say it is a bs magnet in humid/wet locales. Silver Star (from Northland Rosarium - I don't know if it was the HT or Grandiflora) is simply stunning. Great rose. Outta the Blue is a blooming machine - all summer - but has more red/pink tones. Wild Blue Yonder is just OK - tall, not overly floriferous, some pink/red tones. My neighbor (Dianne) on this forum praises Blueberry Hill, which I'll have to try next year. Royal Amethyst is a good rose, isn't stingy with the blooms, and they last relatively long. Lavender Dream is a nice rose, if you like the hybrid musk look. I'd also give a hard look at Heirloom given the raves here.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

I would absolutely recommend Barbra Streisand. I purchased two of them this spring and I'm so glad that I did. The flower starts off as a sort of burgundy when it is closed and then as it opens it turns into a beautiful lavender. It has a great smell too.

And yes, in case anyone is wondering, I am a huge fan of the real Barbra Streisand too:)

Maude


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Fragrant lavenders/purples are probably my favorite type of rose, next being fragrant reds. I grow and love Heirloom, Neptune, Charles de Gaulle, Neptune, Lagerfeld, Barbra Streisand, Silver Star (1960's), Stainless Steel, Midnight Blue, Ebb Tide, and even the pathetic Sterling Silver. I have the Vintage version of SS (via Kim) and it's worth growing after losing several generic Sterling Silvers when I first started growing roses. Not vigorous but okay. I have Blue Girl in my back yard inherited with the house and it's not great, but worth keeping. I've grown a number of great non-fragrant lavenders like Blue Bayou.

I've ditched a few (Silver Shadows, Royal Amethyst, Fragrant Plum and another one I can't remember the name of among them).

But the rare-ish rose mentioned above that you really need to find is Lila Vidri. I bought it originally from Arena as Leila Verde. I've since made tons of cuttings of it for myself and friends. I have three in my current garden. The fragrance and performance are amazing.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Hi kstrong,

Thanks for your explanation from first hand knowledge. In this case, I'm really thinking that we're possibly saying the same thing differently. In retrospect, it was the already apparent die back of the weaker bud stock in combination with Kim's triggering post about the climbing sport which led to my deduction/conclusion. If the double budded plant will naturally shed the weaker of the two bud stocks if it is more than can be supported, wouldn't it be beneficial to speed up the process - allowing the stronger stock to "get all the candy" I think Flaurabunda said? Especially if it is already demonstrating that it doesn't want the second one (with die back)?

If it died back naturally one would prune it off then, no?

So throwing caution to the compost pile, I removed the weaker one about a week ago.
And (drum roll please) the remaining stronger graft is already demonstrating more vigor.

I know we reached different conclusions from the facts, but I sincerely appreciate those facts, kstrong. Thank you.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

I am sorry Neptune is not good for you. I have to admit our new this year bareroot is pretty much a one cane wonder. But what a cane! Just about 3' tall and about 3/4-1 inch wide.

She has 3 beautiful blooms that have been holding and holding and holding. It is in the upper 70's (at least) in the bed she is in.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Might I suggest Lavender Simplicity, Enchanted Evening, or Blue for You. I love Enchanted Evening and Blue for you. My EE blooms allllll summer but does get blackspot. Blue for You doesn't bloom near as much but the color is so worth it. I am always looking for a purple rose. I have a new one I got this year from Palatine called Poseidon. Its very pretty. Judy


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Boy that S&W photo of Love Song is sure doctored! Someone has been playing with the color levels.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

My favorite lavender Hybrid Tea rose is LAGERFELD (he is actually a Grandiflora but who pays attention to that bogus classication anymore?). He grows well on his own roots and has the high centered, silvery lavender, sinfully fragrant blossoms you crave. Yes he will black spot without spraying but so does every other modern mauve rose on the market. Summer heat doesn't stop his bloom production either. The easiest lavender Hybrid Tea that I've grown to date.

I've also heard good things about CHARLES DE GAULLE & BLUE MOON but haven't tried them yet.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

I currently have Shi-un, Babs, Neptune, Blue Girl, Blue Moon, Moonlight Magic, Lagerfeld and Stainless Steel. Shi-un has (to my nose, no fragrance), the others are quite strong. In the desert, at least in my experience, nothing smells overwhelming. Babs behaves more like a grandiflora with few long, single stems. I think any of the above would make a fine addition to any garden.

On order, I have Charles de Gaulle, Moody Blue, Purple Beauty and Mamy Blue. I am most curious about Charles and Mamy.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Anyone know much about that new Carruth lavender "Love Song" that is listed in Edmund's new catalog? It's gorgeous, or at least it looks that way in the photo. Diane


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Is Charles de Gaulle as pale a lavender as Neptune?


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Any thoughts on Poseidon?

Was looking at the local nurseries bareroot 2013 list and saw it there.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

I got Poiseidon last year from Palatine. Its a nice big strong bush. Been good about not getting too much blackspot, quite healthy. The blooms look like the photos - ruffled, pretty light lavender color. Cant recall about scent. I am pleased about its growth and health. As last year was its first bloom year, it didnt have lots of blooms, but hoping for better this year, even though its the "creep" year [as in sleep, creep, leap]. I have Nicole Carole Miller and its similiar to this rose. I like it - its been one of my best lavenders. I have Heirloom as an own root next to it and this is still a puny, small rose. Hoping to see it grow more in the spring.

I saw Royal Amethyst last year en masse at the Tyler Rose Garden and loved it! Thinking of ordering it. Anyone have any comments on it?
Judith


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Love the look of Mamy Blue! Will have to keep an eye out for her.

I currently only have Deja Blu and Blue Moon, but both were first year bands last year so no blooms. Looking forward to what they do this year.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

flaurabunda, I'm coming late to this thread, but I have to second and third (and fourth!) the recommendation for Lila Vidri. Oh.My.Gosh!
If you didn't get on RVR's wait list, do it. It will be worth whatever you have to pay for it, lol. I'm not usually one for enabling, but I have this rose from my brother's neighbor. I saw it, and begged a cutting. She couldn't remember the name, but said it was "something like Lily V...". After a little research, I pinned it down to Lila Vidri. Long story short: as a first year cutting this rose threw two canes, with 17 blooms total in three flushes. I usually disbud cuttings for the entire first year, but after seeing the first one, I couldn't bring myself to do it. It didn't care. I think it may be the ONLY robust mauve HT (it acts like a floribunda for me) I've ever grown. It's now three years old, and doing swimmingly. It does get BS in the fall, but I live in a horrible area for BS. It's a gorgeous rose. Its fragrance reminds me of lemons and raspberries. Don't understand why it isn't grown more. GET IT.

*uh oh...after writing all that, I hope that LV will be hardy for you. HMF lists it for 6b. I'm 7a, but don't winter protect...

And one more that might not be hardy: Stephens’ Big Purple. Gorgeous, Healthy. Smelly :)

Here is a link that might be useful: Stephens' Big Purple


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

What is the average wait time for RVR?
It seems to always be out of stock!


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'Love Potion'

kittymoonbeam mentions 'Love Potion' in the thread linked below. Has anyone got an East Coast disease resistance report about it?

Here is a link that might be useful: Favorite Fragrance in the Garden


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Lavender HT's are simple for me. Two Royal Amethyst's planted about 12" apart. One bush doesn't produce enough of those beautiful blooms for me :)


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

I so love the lavendars. Hoping to come here and hear about experiences with Love Song (photos make the bush look messy from HMF). After my first year with Stainless Steel, I'm smitten. The fragrance is heaven, the blooms really perfect exhibition HT, very light grayish lavendar for me. Did fine in my heat. I love it so much, I broke down and bought it's ever-so-harassed parent, Sterling Silver, which already has some black spot, but the few blooms I've gotten from her so far are going to be SO worth it. I also just planted Neptune as a bareroot - I sniffed her at Armstrong Nursery, and about went to my knees.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Harmony, I like Blue Girl and Sweetness, also.....Ginger Hill isn't lavendar, but is another one I'd recommend for fragrance...just heavenly.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

To me lavender means deep purple :) If you can handle a light lavender, Stainless Steel is the way to go. I have 2 huge bushs of this beauty. Grows like a weed. I grew it in Fl and was one of the first roses to go into my garden up here. Wouldn't be without it. It should grow well up in your area. Just looked at Sweetness on HMF. Doesn't look bad. Good parents and that full bush photo gives you an idea about what it should look like. If I was to have a garden full of lavenders, Sweetness would be in there.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Can't recommend Lagerfeld. Vigorous shrub, lovely when it opens, good fragrance. . . What's wrong with this picture? The blooms quickly fade to an icky sickly grey resembling concrete (or perhaps a bad imitation of Karl's own grey pompadour.) He sleeps with the shovels.

Kay


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

In case you are interested, here is a fairly accurate picture of Charles de Gaulle. It is quite fragrant and has good form when the weather is not too hot. Its drawback is that it is very slow to repeat.

Charles de Gaulle-3


One of the nicest lavenders that I have is the recently available Twice in a Blue Moon. The flowers are well-formed and have a clear color. The plants repeat reasonably well. I don't remember if it smells. This is what this rose looks like.


Twice in a Blue Moon-3


Perhaps this will serve as food for thought and a little help.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Love lavenders & have had quite a few. One nobody has mentioned is Macho Man. Was it a poor performer? I had it years ago from Chamblees & recall it as having large fragrant blooms about the color & look of the gorgeous Charles de Gaulle photos above


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

I do have Macho Man, but it is not all that great for me. It is very prone to blackspot and only looks good in cool weather. It also does not flower all that much either.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Sweetness looks lovely, and I have my eyes out for Stephens Big Purple, but haven't come across it. I did find Della Reese which seems to have similar characteristics, at Armstrong and just planted her as a bareroot in the same bed as Neptune.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Okay, that pic of CDG looks fantastic. I got mine in the ground last month (Hortico) along with Mamy Blue. Can't wait for spring to see how they do.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Does anyone grow Poiseiden? I got it last year from Palatine - it grows well, little disease, the flowers were bigger in spring, smaller in fall. Cant remember about scent. The bush has done well even tho its not in full sun, it does get good light. I cant say if I really like it or not yet until it has another season. Anyone grow it? I do like Nicole Carole Miller. Its a tall plant for me and blooms pretty well. It gets good morning sun then the house protects it from the hot afternoon sun. I think I need to feed these roses a bit more - but plan to do better this year. I have several lavenders ordered - Magenta, Blueberry Hill, Taischa, Intermezzo, Ripples. Most are bands so will be grown out in pots for a couple of years.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

I completely forgot about my other new addition - Monet. She's new from the CCRS Auction, and I can't wait to see the results. Will post pictures if I get blooms this spring.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Speaking of lavender, please be careful of your source. Stupidly, I forgot that 'you get what you pay for' and bought it online.

Turned out to be a pest control (I kid you not) company that outsourced to a potpourri (again, no joke) company and I ordered the plants in July.

THINKing they would ship...........oh, I don't know, in THE FALL?

They arrived yesterday, in the middle of a heat wave in NY. I emailed them constantly, telling them we were in the middle of a heat wave, and not to ship until the Fall.

I planted them in the shade, am tending them every day, and they may or may not make it.

Oh, and my emails to them were ignored. Therefore, I reported them to the BBB, where, interestingly, they have 316 complaints against them!

Be careful out there, gardeners.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Springhill did that to me many years ago. They advertised "Extra heavy, Grade 1+ bare roots" of several varieties I wanted, but which were notorious for producing average to below average plants. Springhill was Week's retail outlet. I took the chance as the supposedly larger plants were only a bit more than body bag plants available locally, plus shipping.

I'm in California, just a hundred or so miles south of where the plants were produced. Springhill was somewhere like Ohio. The ad stated, "will ship at the appropriate time for your location." OK. By late March, I was already calling them about WHEN they would ship. They hadn't received the plants from California yet! Supposedly, they shipped as soon as they received them...the last week of April. It was already in the nineties here that year and it was a real bear bringing them from dormancy into growth, but none were lost. There were nine plants and only one could be called "extra large", the others being what I found in body bags all over. I complained and received a partial refund equal to my shipping and tax. They all lived and flourished and every one of them eventually went to live at friends' homes because the varieties were OK, but not what I had hoped they would be, or the "huskier" plants weren't any huskier than what I already grew. There's nothing really new under the sun, except the plumbing. Kim


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RE: Novalis/Poseidon (mauve)

alameda,

Did you see what the Rose Hybridizer group thinks about Poseidon? Link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Novalis/Poseidon (mauve)


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

I grew Poseidon this year and it is a fine rose. Vigorous, frequent repeat, slight fragrance. I posted a bloom over on the gallery recently. It is NOT small.
Holds color and bloom for a better than average time. Disease free no spray.
Susan


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Flaurabunda,
I'm surprised you are asking this question when I live two blocks from you and grow 465 roses! Call me and I'll tell you! I know which ones do best in our area.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Boy, this thread does seem to have a life of its own. I stand by my much earlier recommendation of Blue Bayou, if one wants a true lavender, the bluest lavender rose I've ever seen, too. I have two Stephens Big Purple roses and their blooms are a bright magenta, not exactly lavender. They are stingy with blooms and are big, ungainly, very upright hybrid tea types. Sweetness was a total turkey for me and is one of the very few roses I have shovel pruned. Angel Face is excellent here in the land of no blackspot as is Blueberry Hill, a large shrub which loves cool weather. If you want a dark, true purple, I think Twilight Zone is best, and I like Ascot, if you want a dark, wine red. Here's a pic of Blue Bayou. Diane


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Here's Twilight Zone. Diane


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Here's Ascot. Diane


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Way back in this thread, I said I was waiting. If you haven't guessed already, my wait is over. I knew I wanted Novalis as soon as I read about it, but it wasn't available my way - they weren't holding the pickles and the lettuce - I mean the rootstock. But it is available own root now and WILL be in my garden next year.

Yes, I'm quite keen on Kordes. Just as I learned to give up rootstocks very early, I've since learned - also pretty quickly - to give up growing weak disease prone roses. And Kordes is to variety in color and form with health what Knock-Outs are in their own healthy category.

I am even compromising my principles for Kordes - sacrificing fragrance and height requirements. The latter I'm adjusting with pruning and the former I'm optimistic is only a matter of time. Also, fragrant healthy Kordes roses already do exist as I've read on this forum - just not in abundance. One of those will also be joining my garden next year.

I won't however compromise my own root requirement which means all y'all 'don't-mind-grafted' folks get to have them before I do while I wait for them to become available own root. I don't mind. For me, it's worth the wait.

So no, Novalis (Poseidon) has little if any fragrance, but IT is lavender and healthy.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Weak necks on modern roses of the caliber of Kordes are IMHO more likely a result of over application of nitrogen fertilizer than genetics. The photo by Prof. Zlesak on the hybridizer forum thread seems to be taken from above....

Prof. Zlesak refers to his recollection of seeing it in person as "gorgeous." (Prof. Zlesak is one from whom and for whom emeritus is increasingly expected in my esteem. So his comment is like a gold seal for me).

The Hybridizer/Breeder group thread is linked in a post above.

Poseidon is not a Hybrid Tea.

Poseidon is a Floribunda.

While hybrid teas are sometimes expected to have good cut flower properties, the same is not usually expected of floribundas.

To the question:

Here is a link that might be useful: Poseidon in a vase?

This post was edited by sandandsun on Sat, Nov 2, 13 at 10:53


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Blue Bayou is a Kordes rose, sandandsun, and is very upright with nary a weak neck. Diane


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

nanadoll,

Yes, I know that 'Blue Bayou' is a Kordes' rose.

I've also read your reports of minimal disease pressure.

I quote from the thread linked below: "You know we are really lucky in SW Idaho not to have any fungal disease problems, especially the scourge of roses, blackspot, and I don't find insect trouble to be much of a problem, either--maybe a few thrips on certain, selected roses (not Julia) and leaf cutter bees that can really notch leaves (but they're good guys, of course)."

Your experience with your roses can in no way indicate anything of value about the performance of those roses for my no spray garden in the very high disease pressure southeast. Of this I'm aware.

Blue Bayou was introduced in 1993. It may be a great rose, but it is unlikely that it has the disease resistance of Poseidon.

Here is a link that might be useful: 7A Hardy Fragrant Roses


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

I bought several lavenders from Chamblees when I was there a couple of weeks ago. I really like Lavender Veranda. Its a small rose, but a pretty rich shade of lavender. Blooms are quite small but it seems to bloom a lot. Its still in a 1 gallon pot - cant decide where to put it - I think I might have to get a couple more of this one. Foliage is very healthy too. Its not on helpmefind yet.....I think this might be a very nice rose.
Judith


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Another vote for HEIRLOOM! ! ! She is a workhorse in my garden and I wouldn't be without her. Repeats all summer long.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

First of all, I'd love to second Twilight Zone - healthy, happy, deep purple rosebush.

And then I'd like to post a pic of a Love Song rose I brought in from my garden on Hallowe'en.......the thing has opened to an enormous size in the vase over the past week! There are still three buds left on the bush trying to defy the frost, as well. I'm so impressed with this lavender - the hardiest I've ever seen.

The photo in the following post without my fist for reference is closer to the actual color of Love Song. It's a pretty mauve. It has a nice scent - not strong, but pretty, and soft, and there - when it first opens, too.

This post was edited by Julietlovespurple on Tue, Nov 5, 13 at 23:42


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

This is closer to the real color...


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Twilight Zone!! :) They have a lovely and long-lasting lemony tea scent, as well - even one open one scents my whole walkway. They've had a second wind since the Autumn, and are extra-purple in the cool weather.

This post was edited by Julietlovespurple on Tue, Nov 5, 13 at 23:43


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

OK-- I have to chime in and agree with molineux... Karl Lagerfeld is just as lovely as could be! Like HELLO?! If you don't think that this bloom is gorgeous then I think you need to make an appointment with your optometrist stat! All of his blooms look like this for a solid week.

Karl has been good to me.. hardy.. fragrant.. consistently beautiful.. And for me, his coloring doesn't turn gray until the verrry end right before his petals fall off. Most roses (at least the ones I have) have a color change after a week or so.


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

Oh how I love the enthusiam, photos, and sharing on this thread! Thanks all!!! I love lavender roses with a passion. So far my experience has been that I can grow them beautifully, no spray in my semi-arid garden. You've started off my morning on such a happy note! Thanks again. :-)


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RE: Quest for a good lavender

I am looking for a lavender rose for zone 6b that need spraying. I like Fragrant Plum, Royal Amethyst, Barbara Streisand & Charles de Gaulle.. would any of these fit the bill or could you suggest one that will? Ty


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