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burlingarden

Should this rose be salvaged?

burlingarden
9 years ago

We have an overgrown rose we inherited when we bought the house. It seems to mainly flower once in the spring with smallish white flowers. It grows really quickly. We are torn between saving it and fitting it into a new landscape or ripping it out. Can this plant be salvaged? Should it be salvaged? Any tips on pruning a monster like this.

Comments (22)

  • jacqueline9CA
    9 years ago

    Monster - that is so funny. I grow mostly old roses, and most of them are 3-4 times bigger than that one.

    From the far away picture, it looks as if it might be a banksia - I would guess the white one. Do you remember if the flowers were clusters of very small blooms? If you could post a close up picture of the leaves and prickles (thorns), we might be able to tell you what rose it is - my guess could very well be wrong. If it is a banksia it is a Chinese rose which may be thousands of years old. They bloom for a long period in the Spring. They love warm climates, so should love where you are.

    If you can wait until next Spring and then post close up pictures of the blooms, that would be even better. Once we figure out what kind of rose it is, someone can give you good pruning advice. If it was mine, I would tie some of those long canes horizontally along the fence, and I would NOT try to prune it hard into some sort of bush shape - it looks as if it wants to be a climber to me. Climbers can happily grow along fences.

    Personally, I think every rose should be given a chance, and I would at least leave it long enough to find out who it is. However, it is your yard, and of course you should do whatever you want to.

    More pictures please!

    Here is a close up pic of bloom clusters on my banksia, which is the yellow one:

  • lazy_gardens
    9 years ago

    From the picture and your description, It's Lady Banks rose (Rosa banksia). The white variety often has a faint scent of violets.

    They make good casual hedge, fence covering, trellised rose and other screening uses, with the advantage of being nearly thornless and with that flamboyant once a year explosion of blooms.

    If you were to give it a larger trellis along the fence and prune the bits coming toward the lawn, it would become a vine, almost.

    You can prune them any time of the year, so if there are branches getting in your way, cut them back. They don't need much to keep them happy ... being left to make a huge green blob in the background of a landscape suits them.

    Here's ours that is left untended, getting water from the neighbor's over-watered lawn, rarely pruned. The large green thing to the left of the oleander is it. The straight line marks the top of the 6ft fence. It's green and gives privacy and once a year it's a giant puffball of yellow blossoms. It's also host to herds of quail - they sleep deep in the center of the bush and have even nested in the lower branches,

  • thonotorose
    9 years ago

    It might be Fortuniana rootstock.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Fortuniana

  • jacqueline9CA
    9 years ago

    Since 'Fortuniana' is a hybrid banksia, that is possible. Still need pics of the blooms to decide.

    Jackie

  • jerijen
    9 years ago

    Here -- Maybe this will help . . .

    The yellow, bottom left, is "Yellow Lady Banks" -- R. banksia lutea. Blooms are a maybe nickle-sized. In clusters. No fragrance.

    The white, bottom right, is "White Lady Banks" -- R. banksia banksia. Blooms are maybe nickle-sized. In clusters. Strong violet fragrance. Really. Like violets. Wonderful.

    The white, top-center, is 'Fortuniana.' Blooms are maybe the size of a quarter, or slightly more. In clusters. STRONG violet fragrance. Up close, it's really a wow.

    You don't say where you are. If you're in Southern California, I'd guess you have R. banksia banksia. OTOH, if you're in Florida (where Fortuniana is still a common rootstock) I'd bet you have Fort.

    Also, even in CA, Monrovia nursery has sold probably MILLIONS of plants of Fortuniana, either as "White Lady Banks," OR as "Snowflake."

    Why would they do something that silly? God knows!

    All (IMHO) are great, GREAT roses. All are spring-blooming. If you cut them back, now, you won't get much bloom next year. You could cut out the dead stuff, tie it up, and prune it early next spring, after it blooms.

    Where I am, at the SoCal coast -- most years these roses will scatter a bit of bloom through the year -- but that is uncommon.

  • jerijen
    9 years ago

    I should add -- 'Fortuniana' blooms have that puffy button eye. Like Miss Muffett's tuffet. White Lady Banks (lower right) doesn't have that form.

  • burlingarden
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    We are in the Bay Area on the Peninsula (zone 10). This rose gets almost 100% sun. I posted a few more photos at the link below. There is also one photo from a distance when it was blooming in the spring. The flowers were probably about 3" in diameter and white with a pinkish hue. You advices is much appreciated.

    Btw - I suspect that this rose is at least 12+ years old. The previous owners of the home did not care well for the plants the last 10 years, but I've heard the owners prior to that were very active caretakers of their plants.

    Here is a link that might be useful: More Rose Photos

  • jerijen
    9 years ago

    Well, It's hard to say.

    I'd bet on Fortuniana, I think, but I've never seen it mildew. Maybe, though, if it is short of water.

    I'm trying to think where you could see one, and the only place I know for sure is the old hilltop cemetery in San Juan Bautista. There are two Fortunianas, there.

    I think, if the blooms are that large, it can't be Lady Banks, but maybe Fort.

    Other thoughts?

    I'd still clean out dead stuff, and tie it up. Increase water, if you can do that. When it blooms next spring, you can get good images of blooms, and we can do better.

    I'd go out and look at my Fortuniana, but the base of it is at the very bottom of the hill, and it's so warm/humid here, it feels like a sauna.

  • burlingarden
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I may be slightly off on diameter. Maybe closer to 2 inch flowers.

  • charleney
    9 years ago

    that is a beautiful rose!

  • ingrid_vc so. CA zone 9
    9 years ago

    Judging by the size of the flowers, I'd be more inclined to say its Fortuniana. When I had one years ago of course is was labeled "White Lady Banks"!

    Ingrid

  • burlingarden
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks for figuring it out. It sounds like this plant is worth saving and I do think it could work in the yard if I use the top of the fence to trellis it a bit. Two last questions from me:

    1. Any tips or suggested reading material for pruning this rose? There are some 1-1.5 inch stems/canes in there and I want to get it right. I'm not experienced pruning roses.

    2. Any idea what the white/splotchyness is on the leaves and how to treat it? Example here below:

  • Samuel Adirondack NY 4b5a
    9 years ago

    1)Watch The Paul Zimmerman video on you tube on pruning a climbing rose.
    2)Don't worry yourself that every leave has to be perfect. Some of the lower leaves may not be great because the upper ones are . It is Normal. Don't panic. Take off some of the bad leaves. No Chemicals Needed.

  • jerijen
    9 years ago

    Good advice, that. :-)

    Just remember, when reading up on pruning, that your rose here is ONCE BLOOMING.

    You would not prune it after winter, as you would a rose that repeats its bloom.

    Prune it, instead, right after it finishes its spring bloom, so that it can put out new growth, which will mature in time for NEXT year's bloom.

    Of course, anything that's dead, or dumb 1.5-inch stubs or blind growths, you can remove at any time. I also remove stuff that is growing into where I need to walk.

    (JERI)

  • burlingarden
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Great advice. Thanks so much to all of you. Is it too late to prune now for a spring bloomer? I'd like to get this plant in shape now and still get a nice spring bloom.

  • User
    9 years ago

    burlin,
    It is too late.
    But you don't have to cut all of the rose.
    Just cut about one third off, a nice trim to make
    it look a little better.
    I bet you still get a nice bloom next year.
    Oh, and dead stuff too.
    Wow, that is huge!
    I'm jealous, I love white lady banks.

  • jerijen
    9 years ago

    Butterfly is correct, you don't want to prune this rose now.
    For the rest of this year, LEAVE IT ALONE.

    ALL you should cut off for the present is anything that is dead. The rest, tie it up to the fence, and get it out of your way.

    If it grows where you have to walk, pull it out of the way. If there is no choice, cut it. This is not meant to be a small, demure plant. It is meant to cover some ground, and make a big show.

    Next year, AFTER it blooms, you can prune it, but don't plan to prune off one third, or one quarter, or one half. Perhaps, you will want to espalier it along your fence, to make a huge show of bloom and fragrance.

  • burlingarden
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    One year later and the rose is blooming again. Anyone know what kind this?


  • Samuel Adirondack NY 4b5a
    9 years ago
    That rose is a monster.
  • hoovb zone 9 sunset 23
    9 years ago

    Kind of like 'Handel'. That was a popular climber at one time.
    'Handel' @ helpmefind


  • comtessedelacouche (10b S.Australia: hotdryMedclimate)
    9 years ago

    It looks like Rosa Indica Major to me. Its Chinese name was something sounding like Fun Juan Lo (if you pronounce the J as 'Zh'). This rose was 'discovered' and brought over from China to the West in the early part of the 19th Century. It has had many names and its precise botanic origin is unclear. Being very tough and resilient to heat and drought - though not to cold - and being very easy to root, it has been much used as an understock in warm areas such as South Australia and (apparently) California. It is somewhat prone to mildew, but this doesn't seem to affect overall health if left untreated. It often swamps and then survives the grafted rose, so is a common sight in old neglected gardens here.

    It blooms early in spring, with those lovely airy puffballs of ivory irregularly suffused or blotched with pale carmine pink, borne on those similarly airy, gracefully arching canes, for a few weeks only each year. It has been noted that if it were a repeat bloomer, it might rank among the great shrub roses. The scent, to my nose, was only faint.

    Whether you want to keep it, and how you want to grow it, is pretty much up to you. I have seen it looking very pretty grown up and over a cottage garden arch. I love its natural fountain shape, however it may produce larger flowers if kept trimmed back. Or you could just take out the oldest, thickest canes at the base each year, immediately after flowering as Jeri and others have said (it doesn't usually set hips). This would keep it a bit smaller without losing its natural graceful shape. Espaliering it against the fence to keep it more 2-dimensional, would be very feasible, maybe still letting it keep its natural curves. If you have room to plant other things in front of it, it should make a nice glossy green background for most of the year, with its annual few weeks of glory to look forward to each spring.

    I took mine out (it was here - a rootstock escape - when I bought this house) and I do still miss it...

    Comtesse :¬)


  • jacqueline9CA
    9 years ago

    Burlingarden - Congratulations! I agree that it is probably 'Rosa Indica Major', a rose which was found in China prior to 1811. If you go to the web site Help Me Find/roses, you will see many pictures of it. Also, you will see that it has 8-10 different names. This happens when roses are so nice & popular that they get re-named all over the many places where they grow. Comtessedelacouche and others above give good advice about pruning it, GENTLY or not at all, and only after it finishes blooming. Tying it up to your fence or on some sort of trellis is also a good idea. Such a beautiful rose!


    Jackie